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  #21  
Old 01-08-2007, 05:27 PM
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Default Do not forget the Qualcom

I think this discussion is worthy for smaller companies that do not use Qualcom .. but for those drivers with a Qualcom .. your company pings your truck via satellite on a regular time period. The Qualcom software stores a coordinate in a database. That database is legal evidence of the proximity of the vehicle that can be used to verify the verity of a logbook.

So .... all you log averagers (logging speed over hours rather than actual time) there is a risk of being caught in a log audit. Usually after one of your fellow drivers hits something and causes a DOT reportable event. Then the DOT starts to turn the company upside down ...

More companies that use Qualcom services are using a value added product that matches the scanned logbook pages with the "rat turds" from the Qualcom database. Gordon and Crete and two I know for sure. It is usually in reaction to a DOT audit but not always.

My honest opinion is that GPS tracking and recording devices will be standard equipment sometime in 2010. Making log averaging passe ...
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  #22  
Old 01-08-2007, 05:47 PM
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Maybe I was just one of the lucky ones!!

I had an excellent dispatcher and freight manager, and time issues were co-ordinated very well.

By running at night, I missed so many of the factors that could slow you down during the day. (i.e.; traffic jams, rush hour, wrecks, etc.)... not to say that there were not some problems, but far fewer of them. Were there some wrecks on the highway?? Yes, but there was not the endless back-up of traffic. On a few occasions, highway construction would be a problem; especially when they were doing some type of bridge repairs, but that was not a perpetual problem. Blown tires or mechanical failure will slow you down, and that is just a fact; yet, by checking PSI on a regular basis, I had fewer tire problems.

While we had a relatively limited fuel network, I wasn't bound by the fuel management programs that some companies operate, where a driver is told where to fuel, and how many gallons to put in.

By running at night, there were far fewer things to slow me down. By refueling right before I shut down, or right before I resumed driving, there was less need to "re-think my log book perspectives. I maximized my opportunities for HOS on a daily basis, to be sure; but the adjustments trat I had to make were far less severe. I never had a problem with log book audits. Went over budget on my hours a few times due to unforseen problems when on time delivery was critical, but that was all.
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  #23  
Old 01-09-2007, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfhobo
There's really NO WAY for ME to run more miles. My truck outruns the speed limit, [along with the "flow" of traffic that is doing the SAME!] and therefore the number of miles I can run in my "allotted" 11 hours of driving.
Except that when you hide alot of stuff on Line 1 & 2 and use trucker math on Lines 3 & 4, it gives you more time on your 70 to run. Speed averaging for example. Ain't a long-hauler out there that doesn't do it. But is it legal? No.

Quote:
Look at it THIS way: DOT doesn't want me to be driving after 14 hours on duty. Let's say, within that 14 hour window, I can drive the maximum miles allowable, by speed limits, attainable within the 11 hours allowed to be driving. But, traffic slows me down, or I stop for a break or three. Or I sit (and nap) at a shipper for 3 hours waiting on someone to pick my lettuce! Point is... sometimes I get there too early. Other times, I might be OVER 11 hours driving, but UNDER 14 hours on duty. I've HAD several breaks. I'm NOT breaking the "spirit" of the law. Or I scaled at the wrong time, or passed thru a tollbooth too early....

I've slept for AT LEAST 10 hours before starting my day. Sometimes, I have to leave one place early in the morning to be "in position" for a load later in the day. I get LOTS of time off while waiting, but not a full 8 hour "sleeper berth" break. Then, I get the dispatch to go get my load. I waste 4 hours waiting to get loaded. Then, my BOL and/or scale ticket says I was there at a certain time. But, I need to lay down some miles.

If you're at home, and get up at 8 a.m., and only get 4 hours of work in for the day, do you want someone telling you that you have to "go to bed" at 10 p.m. that night??? Are you still a CHILD??? I haven't had a 10 p.m curfew since I was 8 years old!

If you want MY "take" on it.... here it is: We should be allowed to drive 11 hours PER 24 hour day, period! As a "team driver" I can NOW maximize my hours to drive nearly 14 hours a day! Just give me 11 (or 12) hours of driving time in 24 hours, and let ME decide when to take a nap, and for how long, and where! Just let me GET my 11 hours worth of miles!

By forcing me to try to GET my 11 hours driving, within a 14 hour window, after wasting 6 hours at shippers doing NOTHING, you make me drive FASTER, LONGER without breaks, and "POSSIBLY" beyond my 14 hour window and "fudge" my logs!

I totally comprehend the DESIRED regulation for an 8 hour continuous sleep every 24 hours.... and THAT is what the regs are aimed at. I am NOT in favor of the "old" 5 and 5 system! But, I RESENT being "timed" at every fuel stop or scale or weigh station along the way towards getting my 600-700 miles per day! Some days, I might not GET that many! FINE! "I" know when I'm sleepy and need to "restart."

I'm all FOR keeping truckers from running 18 hours a day with no sleep! But, there has GOT to be a better way of doing it!

And.... if you read the final ruling on the fmcsa website, you'll see that I am NOT the only one who feels this way!

Hobo
I understand what you're saying but unfortunately the law is not open to interpretation. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.

Put it to you like this: say you're sitting at an intersection and a drunk plows into you and kills himself. Opposing lawyers go over your logbook, qualcomm records, receipts, tolls, shippers/receivers logs etc. Oops, seems like you were 15 minutes over your 14 when the incident occurred. Guess what? The attorneys will argue that had you been running a 100% DOT complaint logbook, you would have been shut down and not been there. Which means you go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.00. Say goodbye to your house, car, savings, CDL, etc.

That's why ALL that stuff has to match up and you MUST log it like you do it. Otherwise you're breaking the law and exposing yourself to HUGE liabilities.
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  #24  
Old 01-09-2007, 05:21 AM
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Let's say I'm nowhere NEAR my 14th hour, but I drove M-a-y-b-e 30 minutes over my 11 hours, with several breaks inbetween, but the miles can be "averaged" at below the posted speed limits for all states I've run through today.

Legally, I shouldn't BE there, YET. (because I sped 5 miles over the limit, after sitting in traffic for an hour.) But, neither you NOR the DOT can prove I didn't get there within the 11 hours. The fact that I took a 3 hour nap at the shipper while they were "finding me a door," can't be proven one way or another.

Now, you just have a dead FOOL who can't drive his 4wheeler, and I'm in the clear.

I know what you are saying, MUG. But, YOU have to face the same reality that the DOT has allready faced. The absolute BEST they can hope for, is that MOST drivers will follow the "spirit" of the law.

Anyone, especially newbies, that log EVERYTHING exactly as they do it, will NOT make the miles, therefore not make the money in this business. Therefore..... a high turnover rate, and many of them go back to civilization..... where, IMHO, they BELONG!
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  #25  
Old 01-09-2007, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfhobo
Anyone, especially newbies, that log EVERYTHING exactly as they do it, will NOT make the miles, therefore not make the money in this business. Therefore..... a high turnover rate, and many of them go back to civilization..... where, IMHO, they BELONG!
As a noobie, I always logged it as I drove it. As time passed, and I gained more experience, I started learning how to "adjust" my log book, and "re-think my perspectives"!!
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  #26  
Old 01-09-2007, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Useless
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfhobo
Anyone, especially newbies, that log EVERYTHING exactly as they do it, will NOT make the miles, therefore not make the money in this business. Therefore..... a high turnover rate, and many of them go back to civilization..... where, IMHO, they BELONG!
As a noobie, I always logged it as I drove it. As time passed, and I gained more experience, I started learning how to "adjust" my log book, and "re-think my perspectives"!!
Let me say first -- I "adjusted" my logbook all the time.

When Werner was getting approval for their paperless log it was determine there was no loss of driving time between those that used a logbook vs those that used paperless logs.

What they have found since going the paperless log route is drivers are doing better at time management. Which I think is the single biggest problem for most drivers.

I don't agree with the present D.O.T. concept of logging, way to many rules and exceptions. But they have come to this because of a FEW drivers that can't use common sense. These FEW drivers are forcing the D.O.T. to look harder and harder at controlling ALL drivers by OBR systems. Which I think will cause a reduction in total driving time. Causing an increase in the number of trucks which will lead to increasing accidents.

Going back in history you will see the major change in driving habits was when companies when to just-in-time freight. Yes there has always been a few that did the drive till you drop thing but most used good old common sense. They knew when they were tired and took a nap.

But under the present system drivers are forced many times to keep on driving when they are tired because of 14 hour rule. Before the 14 hour rule you could take a hour or two nap and not hurt your driving time.

The second problem D.O.T. will have to address is the delay times cause my shippers and receivers. Along this same line the problem of driver's being allow to load and unload freight.

Now that we have solved the driving problems I'd say it time for the D.O.T. to look at getting every driver a Secretary to handle the paperwork.

Have a great and safe day.

kc0iv
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  #27  
Old 01-09-2007, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kc0iv
Now that we have solved the driving problems I'd say it time for the D.O.T. to look at getting every driver a Secretary to handle the paperwork. kc0iv[/color]
While they are at it, they should also provide every driver a chauffeur as well!! 8)
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  #28  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:21 PM
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It boils down to this. It doesn't matter what your company policies are. It doesn't matter what they let you get away with or what you think you are getting away with.

What's going to count is the day you are sitting in a jail cell because in a split second, someone did something stupid and you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and that someone is no longer alive. It won't matter that it wasn't your fault because a lawyer is going to be pulling up ever bit of info that says you where in one place when your log says you were somewhere else. And when it is all said and done, if you win your case, you will have lost everything to pay for the lawyers. If you lose you will be spending a number of years in prison with your life and your families lives in shambles. And your companies stands a good chance of going down with you if they don't have deep pockets. Check out Roads West out of Phoenix. They just sold out to Knight Transportation and the driver that took them down is looking at 20 years.

Do you think you get paid enough to take that kind of risk.

There are companies out there these days where you can run legal at all times and make a good living. Things are actually changing. No one likes change, but the time is here.

Drive safe all!
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  #29  
Old 01-09-2007, 07:44 PM
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We where always told to log according to the time the qualcomm stated.
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  #30  
Old 01-10-2007, 03:00 AM
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Default Very True Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by evertruckerr
It boils down to this. It doesn't matter what your company policies are. It doesn't matter what they let you get away with or what you think you are getting away with.

What's going to count is the day you are sitting in a jail cell because in a split second, someone did something stupid and you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and that someone is no longer alive. It won't matter that it wasn't your fault because a lawyer is going to be pulling up ever bit of info that says you where in one place when your log says you were somewhere else. And when it is all said and done, if you win your case, you will have lost everything to pay for the lawyers. If you lose you will be spending a number of years in prison with your life and your families lives in shambles. And your companies stands a good chance of going down with you if they don't have deep pockets. Check out Roads West out of Phoenix. They just sold out to Knight Transportation and the driver that took them down is looking at 20 years.

Do you think you get paid enough to take that kind of risk.

There are companies out there these days where you can run legal at all times and make a good living. Things are actually changing. No one likes change, but the time is here.

Drive safe all!
I AM SO GLAD SOMEONE REALIZES THE FACTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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