Yay for me! (Did I hear this right?)

[Douglas]

In the topic on single-clutching, a few people posted that in truckdriving school, it's easier to teach someone who has little/no exp. on a standard than someone who alreay knows how (in a regular car).

That really takes a lot off my mind. I'm hardly any good on a stick myself, and I start trucking school Jan. 8, and I was worried that my not knowing how to drive a standard-shift would put me behind or at a disadvantage. I didn't know if they teach you how to drive a standard, or if they assumed you already knew how to drive one, so this is good for me.

(BTW, the same examiner I had when I got my Class B license will be the instructor of the truckdriving class, if you wanted to know)

[JoeyB]

Yeah well I used to say that until I became a CDL instructor. But either way, it shouldn't be a big deal. The main thing is the clutch handling, and we started out with 3 sessions of practice range, so the student had plenty of time to get used to the idea of the clutch while he was doing that.

As far as the actual shifting is concerned, learning to double clutch will be a lot easier if you know WHY you have to do it and what you accomplish by doing it.

[Fozzy]

This is the reason is IS easier to teach those with no experience. Even if you know how to drive a standard transmission, it in no way helps you other than knowing how to go through a shift pattern. The clutch use is totally different and the things that can screw you up (going too deep in the clutch, single clutching, starting off while applying accelerator) are already stuck in your head. As a person with no experience you only have to mentally grab what you have recently been taught. People tend you resort to the known and grab for that FIRST in times of stress and emergencies. if this means that when you are missing a shift in a truck (and all your life have pushed the clutch to the floor to make the transmission work in your car.).. and push the clutch to the floor to make it work, your going to take longer to recover and get back off the clutch to get everything moving together to make the shift. Time equals space, the more time you take recovering makes you run out of room and miss and screw up things that you really shouldnt be missing or screwing up.

[Douglas]

Alright. Thanks.

[BuddhaTim]

This is the reason is IS easier to teach those with no experience. Even if you know how to drive a standard transmission, it in no way helps you other than knowing how to go through a shift pattern. The clutch use is totally different and the things that can screw you up (going too deep in the clutch, single clutching, starting off while applying accelerator) are already stuck in your head. As a person with no experience you only have to mentally grab what you have recently been taught. People tend you resort to the known and grab for that FIRST in times of stress and emergencies. if this means that when you are missing a shift in a truck (and all your life have pushed the clutch to the floor to make the transmission work in your car.).. and push the clutch to the floor to make it work, your going to take longer to recover and get back off the clutch to get everything moving together to make the shift. Time equals space, the more time you take recovering makes you run out of room and miss and screw up things that you really shouldn't be missing or screwing up.

I must say that double clutching is my problem, especially down shifting. I'm in Houston Community Collage Driving Academy, we only had a couple of days in the trucks before the holiday break. In those two days of running around the range I struggled so hard with the double clutch sequence. I feel it is because all I've ever driven is my old raggedy Ford 5 spd p/u. The others in my class have limited standard trans experience and they picked it right up on double clutching. Over the holidaze I've been practicing the double clutch sequence in my p/u. I also went out a day with my neighbor in his '03 FL 10 speed and did a little driving. I gave him back the reins when he freaked that I was even using the clutch for any gear after leaving a stop. I told him that slip shifting wouldn't work for my training since I HAD to double clutch for school and the school says I HAVE to double clutch during both the final exam and the DPS license test to pass.

Above I called double clutching a sequence, maybe it's a rhythm.... which I have none!

TimT
Cut-N-Shoot, Tx

[Fozzy]

The best way to learn this and have it stick is to talk it through OUT LOUD! Men especially seem to feel childish doing this, but it works! It's sort of like chanting a mantra..

During your upshifts try saying; "Tap - neutral - tap - shift" and you'll eventually set up a rhythm .

Down shifts are a little more tricky and require some serious concentration and a couple of extra steps. Most new people do not use the BRAKES well enough to get their RPM down effectively.

Drag the RPM down - tap - neutral - RAISE RPM - tap - shift.

[BuddhaTim]

...talk it through OUT LOUD! It's sort of like chanting a mantra.. ...try saying; "Tap - neutral - tap - shift" and you'll eventually set up a rhythm . Drag the RPM down - tap - neutral - RAISE RPM - tap - shift.

As I said, I have no rhythm, but it's not bad enough that I have to dance (on the pedals), now you want me to sing too? What's next, play an instument? Oh wait, I gotta do that too don't I... observe the guages while I'm singing and dancing. geez...

Thanks for the chant.

TimT
Cut-N-Shoot, Tx

[terrylamar]

The best way to learn this and have it stick is to talk it through OUT LOUD! Men especially seem to feel childish doing this, but it works! It's sort of like chanting a mantra..

During your upshifts try saying; "Tap - neutral - tap - shift" and you'll eventually set up a rhythm .

Down shifts are a little more tricky and require some serious concentration and a couple of extra steps. Most new people do not use the BRAKES well enough to get their RPM down effectively.

Drag the RPM down - tap - neutral - RAISE RPM - tap - shift.

You put your left foot in,
You put your left foot out,
You put your left foot in,
and shake it all about...

[Fozzy]

...talk it through OUT LOUD! It's sort of like chanting a mantra.. ...try saying; "Tap - neutral - tap - shift" and you'll eventually set up a rhythm . Drag the RPM down - tap - neutral - RAISE RPM - tap - shift.

As I said, I have no rhythm, but it's not bad enough that I have to dance (on the pedals), now you want me to sing too? What's next, play an instument? Oh wait, I gotta do that too don't I... observe the guages while I'm singing and dancing. geez...

Thanks for the chant.

TimT
Cut-N-Shoot, Tx

try chewing gum at the same time..

[Douglas]

So you're not supposed to let off the clutch as you apply the accelerator? :?:

Fozzy wrote:

"e clutch use is totally different and the things that can screw you up (going too deep in the clutch, single clutching, starting off while applying accelerator)"

[COLT]

Listen to the truck, do what the truck wants, This is how to drive, do what the truck wants... USE THE FORCE LUKE If you want to learn, listen to the truck... If you can "feel" the truck... Now your a driver... Anyone can be taught to drive a truck, But to be a "truck driver" you must "drive" the truck. Your the boss.

[Fozzy]

So you're not supposed to let off the clutch as you apply the accelerator? :?:

Fozzy wrote:

"e clutch use is totally different and the things that can screw you up (going too deep in the clutch, single clutching, starting off while applying accelerator)"

Not in a truck (with an ECM of course). The ECM will provide enough power to keep the engine running while you come off the clutch. Even on very steep grades you need only worry about releasing the clutch and getting the truck moving, once it is moving, you can start to shift using the accelerator.

[JoeyB]

If you can "feel" the truck... Now your a driver... Anyone can be taught to drive a truck, But to be a "truck driver" you must "drive" the truck. Your the boss.

I think it's important to have an understanding of why you need to double clutch and what double clutching actually does. You'll have far less trouble doing something if you actually understand what it is you need to accomplish.

The out-loud thing really helps some guys. If I had a student that was struggling, I would have him use "in-out-in-out", spoken at normal cadence; that was usually just about the right rhythm and it really did the trick for some guys. By the way, do you know how I learned about that little teaching aid? From a student!

Colt is right about feeling the truck. But he is in error when he says feeling the truck makes you a "truck driver". Feeling the truck makes you a "trucker". That's 2 notches above "truck driver". Unfortunately, it's very often the same pay grade...

[golfhobo]

Douglas: I know you don't want to hear this but, I disagree with what you've read. I think knowing how to shift an automobile HELPS. But, that does NOT mean you can't LEARN to double clutch.

I don't mean to be harsh (only honest,) but if you can't "hear" the transmission in your vehicle, and are having trouble clutching that, you will have trouble with a truck. However... if you LEARN the matching RPM's and ROAD speeds, you may overcome your problem.

Listen carefully to what Fozzy said. TAP is the key word. If your left knee straightens out, and your butt comes off the seat.... you are going too DEEP on the clutch and invoking the clutch BRAKE.

When you are "under power," either accelerating UP the gears, or decelerating DOWN the gears... the tranny is under a strain. Think how much weight you are pulling/controlling. The key is to RELIEVE this strain on the tranny.

The fact that many of us "float" the gears, is a testament to the fact that the gears will slip easily IF the tranny is "floating." It is RPM's that will float the tranny!

Many newbies try to EASE out onto the road, afraid to GO ANYWHERE. This causes a "leveling out" of RPM's in whatever gear you are in, and then the weight takes over... either UP or DOWN a grade. The tranny is then either PULLING or BRAKING the load.

The trick is SIMPLE. Going UP the gears.... accelerate quickly and decisively! REV the engine up high so that when you TAKE YOUR FOOT OFF THE FUEL , you have PROPELLED the weight of the truck forward with the RPM's climbing. AT THAT SAME MOMENT, you TAP the clutch, and the tranny "releases" your stick shift!

Now, before the RPM's get below about 1300, you TAP the clutch again WHILE "slipping" the shifter into the next gear. It WILL NOT go in if you let the RPM's get too low.... but reving the engine usually gets them TOO HIGH. [You cannot "speed shift" a truck like you can a car.]

Know where you are going with the shifter, then TAP, click, TAP, click. This should NOT take you a "lunch hour" to do. Your foot does NOT go back on the accelerator until you are IN GEAR.

Downshifting, you let off the fuel (which puts the tranny in a bind but slows the truck which is necessary) then TAP, click and you're in neutral and free floating. Now.... quickly OR slowly bring the RPM's back up to their TOP end (which is usually around 2000 RPM's) and then TAP, click into the next lower gear.

The faster you are going (higher gears) the higher the RPM required to downshift. If you are going slow (say in traffic) and downshifting in the LOWER range, you may only need about 1000 to 1500 RPM's.

It all comes back to "listening" to the truck and giving it what it needs. Baby it at lower speeds and tell it what you want at higher speeds.

Now one more thought in the equation. 80k pounds at 70 mph, has INERTIA! It will stay where you put it more or less. But, the same weight at 20 mph, will drag your truck to a halt in a heartbeat! THAT is why you cannot "baby" your way out of a parking lot, or away from a stoplight! You've got to get that weight moving and KEEP it there to take the weight/strain off the tranny. However, if you're "cruising" through a truckstop parking lot at 35 mph, the weight is allready MOVING, and you can "baby" your way into a lower or higher gear.

So... the "song" to the "dance" is: RRRRUUUUMMMMM! tap, click, tap, click......... RRRUUUUMMMMM! tap, click, tap, click! .........

If the TRUCK is singing... HHHMMMMUUUUURRRRR!! you are "overtached" and in a bind!! You need to reduce your road speed to take the weight/strain off the tranny.

I don't know if any of that made sense.... but it is how I teach my trainees. Think of a roller coaster, or your car at the top of a hill... At the apex, the cars are "floating." That is where you need to get your truck/tranny to make the shift go smoothly!

Hobo

[syl77dar]

ty

[golfhobo]

ty hobo that is great to know how long have you been driving? and how long training?

Been driving since I was 15! Oh.... you mean a TRUCk?? :shock:

I'm very new to this myself. I've only been driving for about 14 months. Been training since this last summer.

Not great "credentials" I KNOW! But... I'm one of those who was "born" driving. REALLY!! I'm not ashamed to say it... but I KNOW that many would say one can't be BORN to drive. Not true. I apologize if some might think I'm a bit brash.

I first drove a 3 speed on the column at about 11 yrs. I got my permit and learned to "drive" on the L.A. freeways. I never had anyone 'teach' me to drive a stick shift... I just knew how it worked. (I've owned several myself, and drove the HECK out of the Colorado mountains in them!) [and feel this was GREAT practice for my new profession!]

I drove a SEMI one time when I was in the service, with NO experience in one, into downtown D.C. and backed down an alley and into a dock with only one pull-up.... because I wasn't "afraid" to do it.

When I started with my company, I had 3 trainers in 4 weeks. I "out-backed" the first one, "out-logged" the second one, and "out-shifted" the third one (in their OWN words.)

I KNOW it's not the same for everyone... and I am trying NOT to sound bragadocious! But, this stuff comes EASY to me. In my first 4 weeks, I "whittled" that 53' trailer and rig down from a truck to a station wagon to a family car to a sports car! (In my mind.) I ALWAYS know where the back of my trailer is... without looking. I can just "feel it."

Please don't think I'm a "jerk" just because I'm talented. I've ALSO trained scores of people in several different occupations. I think I have a talent for "understanding" what the "hangups" are... and explaining things in a way that someone else will understand.

I LOVE trucking... and I only HOPE that I can be of some HELP to others!

I've been a bit hard on "wimps" in here before. I apologize... but not really! This job is NOT for the TIMID! ANYONE can be a "steeringwheelholder."

IMHO.... 80% of this job is ATTITUDE and CONFIDENCE. If you don't HAVE it... you need to GET it! If you can't GET it... you don't need to be driving a truck. Period.

And you NEED that confidence WHEN YOU ARE IN SCHOOL! If you don't BELIEVE you can drive this truck.... you just probably CAN'T.

This is NOT rocket science! You look in the mirror and ask the guy/girl... do YOU drive the truck? Or does the truck drive YOU???

I am honored by your last post. You must have thought I was an "old salt." Sorry, if I've disappointed you. I hope what I said REALLY helped you. There are MANY on here with WAY more years of driving than I. But... I hope what I say can be usefull to some newbie [LIKE MYSELF!] who is trying to make a "go" of this new career.

Hobo

[thebaldeagle655]

ty hobo that is great to know how long have you been driving? and how long training?

Been driving since I was 15!

Hobo

The first time I was ever stopped I was 13, driving a 68 KW crossing the desert in Arizona. By the time I got it pulled over and to the side my dad was out of the sleeper and sitting in the driver's seat and I was in the sleeper. The cop's 1st question was "is there anyone else in the truck with you?" Couldn't prove anything so let us go with a stern warning.

[golfhobo]

ty hobo that is great to know how long have you been driving? and how long training?

Been driving since I was 15!

Hobo

The first time I was ever stopped I was 13, driving a 68 KW crossing the desert in Arizona. By the time I got it pulled over and to the side my dad was out of the sleeper and sitting in the driver's seat and I was in the sleeper. The cop's 1st question was "is there anyone else in the truck with you?" Couldn't prove anything so let us go with a stern warning.

:shock: :shock:

Well.... ya GOT me there, Baldy! I never had the opportunity to drive a big rig that young! But... you help make my point!

Driving is driving! Many of "us" learned to drive rigs on the farm at an early age. (I didn't.) But.... I've always felt that if it had wheels and an engine, I COULD DRIVE IT!

Did your dad PAY you for "using your logbook?"