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Thread: Single Clutch Shift a truck?

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    mmiikkee is offline Rookie
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    Default Single Clutch Shift a truck?

    Can you single shift in a semi-truck? I hear a lot about double clutching and floating gears.

    I've been practicing double clutching in my honda ops: just to play around with double clutching. I've tried floating gears without much success...

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    millersod215 is offline Board Regular
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    Really no reason to use a clutch in a big truck, and to answer your question, no, just a "single" clutch, like i guess you're used to doing in your car will not work. What you have to understand with a big truck transmission is a clutch doesn't do you a bit of good if your RPM's are not right. As for me, i don't use the clutch at all, only to start off, and get it in to gear, but trust me, once you start driving you'll soon find out that the clutch doesn't do you a bit of good if you're not doing everything else right.

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    RockyMtnProDriver is offline Senior Board Member
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    The reason you have to Double Clutch, as opposed to Single Clutch, is that the input shaft speed in the transmission needs to change, so it lines up with the output shaft.

    When you double clutch, you re-engage the clutch in the middle of the shift, which allows the engine to change the speed of the input shaft.

    When you up shift, the engine lowers the RPM, and when you downshift, you raise the speed of the input shaft by rising he RPM of the engine with your throttle.

    You will find most drivers do not use a clutch when they shift.

    And there has been endless debate as to whether you should or not.

    In my opinion, not using a clutch to shift, is like not washing your hands after you take a crap and then eating.

    Eventually, it will catch up with you.

    And dont waste your time by double clutching your Honda. It will not work the same way, the reason being is that you have synconizers in your Honda, and do not in your Truck. It is not even close to the same feel, or action.

    And trying to float in your Honda will not work either.

    One more thing. Learn to drive in the truck.

    I wish I had a dollar for every time I have told a student "Stop driving your car" when they are driving the trucks at my school.

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    Rockie, your comments are really helpful. I also had the same questions as the one posted above. I too was practicing double clutching my car to get a feel for it. Guess I'll give that up!

    If you are double clutching every shift, your left leg must be twice the size of your right one. Do you walk in circles? :lol: :lol: :lol:

    If you have the RPM's right to complete a smooth shift, what damage are you doing to the transmission?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rookie McRookerson

    If you have the RPM's right to complete a smooth shift, what damage are you doing to the transmission?
    Well, that is the debate.

    Most drivers will tell you that no damage is done. Most engineer's will tell you that it is best for the tranny if you do use a clutch.

    This is how it was explained to me by an Engineer from Fuller.

    When you take the transmission OUT of gear, without a clutch, there is pressure on the on the input shaft, by the power coming being transmitted from the wheels all the way to the output shaft.

    When you use a clutch, you disconnect the power coming from the Engine back to the input shaft.

    So, in effect, you disconnect the power from the wheels to the engine.

    Yes, most of the time you can time it pretty good and effectively reduce the power so it will slid out and in, but eventually you may time it wrong, and chip a tooth.

    One other reason to use a clutch. Most chipped teeth in transmissions will NOT be warranty. So you want to limit that from happening, and the best way to limit it, is by using a clutch.

    YES, it will work if you don't use a clutch. You have to ask yourself the following questions.

    Why do the engineer's say you should use one?

    Can you afford the repair bill, if you don't?

    And the best one of all.....

    Why do you thing they put one in the truck, if it does not need it?

    It would be kind of like saying "Hey, I don't really NEED 18 wheels and tires, I think I will take some off to save me some money on Tire wear".

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    mmiikkee is offline Rookie
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    I just had this A.D.D. influenced thought: Wouldn't a student driver be at a big disadvantage if they enter truck driving school without knowing how to operate a standard transmission??? I remember having to learn how to drive a standard tranny at my first job without any instruction, but ppl using their hands to show me how my feet should move off of the clutch and on the gas pedal... It took me 3 weeks to get things down, but at least I used their cars to work out my poor technique before I bought a car of my own that was a standard shift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmiikkee
    I just had this A.D.D. influenced thought: Wouldn't a student driver be at a big disadvantage if they enter truck driving school without knowing how to operate a standard transmission??? I remember having to learn how to drive a standard tranny at my first job without any instruction, but ppl using their hands to show me how my feet should move off of the clutch and on the gas pedal... It took me 3 weeks to get things down, but at least I used their cars to work out my poor technique before I bought a car of my own that was a standard shift.
    Actually, I would rather teach someone to drive truck who has NEVER driven a standard, EVER.

    That way, you have no bad habits to start with.

    My recomendation is that you let the school teach you how to drive, and stop trying to teach yourself.

    You are interfering with your learning process. Let them do their job.

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    Fozzy is offline Senior Board Member
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    Wouldn't a student driver be at a big disadvantage if they enter truck driving school without knowing how to operate a standard transmission???
    NO! It is easier to teach someone how to drive a truck with little to no standard transmission experience because you dont need to re teach them anything. Trying to re-learn to do something is tougher than learning in the first time.

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    mmiikkee is offline Rookie
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    Sounds about right.

  11. #10
    Ditch is offline Member
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    Don't double clutch your Honda. It's a different sort of transmission. It's synchronized.

    This site explains the differences.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_transmission

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    Roadhog's Avatar
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    I learned from a Driver who was an RPM shifter, (no clutch) so that is how I first learned. Man I was brutal on the gears. That is no way to learn.
    But he just didn't know how to double clutch, and couldn't teach me that way. He drove 2 million miles too...so...don't think he was just some yahoo.

    Use the clutch. Learn to double clutch.
    If a day comes when you must absolutely grab a gear to save your life...you best know how to use that clutch. Know your "go to gears" too.
    Waaa? you ask?
    There are certain gears that "give" easier than others. Every tranny is different.

    Think of double clutching as two shifts.
    First clutch you take yourself out of gear.
    Second clutch you select the next gear. Two shifts.
    You don't need to fully depress the clutch pedal either...like in your car.
    You just tap the clutch pedal...(it's a feel thing) usually about 1/3rd of the way. For me...I'm so close to the right RPM...it's just a little nudge on the clutch...at the right moment. If you miss it...so what...bring your RPM where you need it and ....clutch...in you go. Just don't loose it and start manhandling the gears.

    I always get razed for discribing it this way...but it's like you are making love. You gotta get intune with your tranny, and tickle them gears alittle ...you will feel where the hole is...and then gently slip it in.
    Is it getting hot in here?

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    inmate1577 is offline Senior Board Member
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    Well I learned to double-clutch in school and I disagree that you learn bad habits. Double-clutching is double clutching, grinding gears is a bad habit, IMHO.

    But a little trick to double clutching is to think of the rythym of the "Addams Family" theme song (when they snap the fingers) and you can get the same rythym on a shift.

    Not mashing the clutch helps as well, you need to maybe go in an inch or two. I've seen alot of people not get their shift because they are mashing the clutch to the floor and engaging the clutch brake.
    Everything I need to know about driving a truck I learned from watching "DUEL"

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    :lol: Or like in the shower scene of "Bate's Motel".....stab/stab!

    But you still need to be aware of your RPM's. This comes natural to a seasoned Driver. In the beginning...you are really going to fuss over your RPM gauge. Eventually, you will sense these things, and it becomes routine...and you develop your own rythym and style.

    The clutch brake is a good point. You can only use this when the Tractor is still. It is to slow the transmission down, so you can put it into gear. If you engage the clutch brake while moving...you will ruin it to the point it will no longer work.
    What I do...(because I drive a lot of Company Tractors that have the clutch brake worn out) .....I shift into 4th gear first...that drops the gear speed down, then quickly slip it into the lower gear of my choice. Or you just have to not be in such an all-fired hurry...and wait another 30 seconds for the gears to slow down...and drop'er into the hole.

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    mmiikkee is offline Rookie
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    Can't wait until I go to school and get to do this

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    PackRatTDI is offline Senior Board Member
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    Default Re: Single Clutch Shift a truck?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmiikkee
    Can you single shift in a semi-truck? I hear a lot about double clutching and floating gears.

    I've been practicing double clutching in my honda ops: just to play around with double clutching. I've tried floating gears without much success...
    You can't float the gears in a syncronized transmission, you HAVE to use the clutch.

    Though it's possible to float a syncronized transmission if it's pretty well worn after a few hundred thousand miles.

    Almost all heavy duty truck transmissions sold in the US are non-syncronized boxes. Those you either have to double clutch or float the gears in.

    Volvo sold their syncronized 14 speed gearbox for a short period combined with their D12 engine but it wasn't popular since US drivers are so used to floating gears.
    You can take the driver out of the truck but you cant take the truck out of the driver.

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    inmate1577 is offline Senior Board Member
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    I remember when I was in school we floated gears, maybe because the Freightliner had over 1 million miles on it?

    I've been accused of being a "floater"....of gears that is. It could just come from school or years riding motorcycles and shifting without the clutch?

    Who knows?


    But I should clarify something. You dont pick up bad habits in school, bad habits would be those that endanger others or knowingly break the law. Its just different habits, thats all.
    Everything I need to know about driving a truck I learned from watching "DUEL"

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