How to get a recruiter's claims in writing?

[devildice]

allow me to share my experience on this subject.

I am a "wannabe", I have done all my research on the industry (and yes I still want to get into the business...lol) and am now in the phase where I am looking at which companies I want to apply to once I have obtained my CDL.

I currently have a full time (40+ hrs) job as well as a part time (15+ hrs) job. Now this does not leave me a whole lot of time to sit on a phone talking to a recruiter. So I have a "standard" email of questions that I send them (modify it based on what the company website says or does not say). At the beginning of this email I explain who I am and exactly what I am doing....researching potential employers.

Anyways, I have found that many will reply insisting that I call them. That they are too busy to reply via email. Which by the way, the most questions I ever had listed for a company was 21 and for the most part my questions are yes/no answers or very little explanation answers.

So I reply stating that I can understand they are very busy and again inform them that I am working 2 jobs and have very little time to sit on the phone for "X" amount of time. In addition, when I do have the time, its either late at night or early on the weekends, both of which there are no recruiters working in their offices.

Now I have no doubt that a recruiter can or is very busy each day fielding questions from 100's of people. But after reading this thread it really makes me wonder if they just don't want to put anything in writing. What makes this even more interesting is that the ones that refuse to reply by email are also the same companies that get a LOT of negative feedback on the forums. On the opposite side, the ones that do reply via email are also the ones that are receiving positive feedback.

:?: :?: ......hmmmm, coincidence????

[redsfan]

I think the standard email would be good and should really not take them any longer than a phone call. I usually call them, but I have a standard form that I use also, about 20 questions.

We all know that they lie, it's been proven time and again that they lie and they will continue to lie. Most companies that have the lying used car salesman type don't really care if they lie and I would guess that they probably even promote lying or anything else it may take to put a butt in a seat.

One thing that I have found is that it is usually fairly easy to tell who is working on commission and who is paid by the hour. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure even they hourly paid recruiters have quotas that they are expected to meet, but the difference is the commission-based recruiters are under more pressure to be able to put food on the table. The hourly working already knows what he will be bringing home. What I have found is if they seem to be rushing you along and try to get a SS # in the first conversation, I would be willing to bet that they are on commission. If they are willing to take their time to answer any questions that you have and explain everything in detail, they are probably hourly employees. This is not fool-proof, but I would place a bet on most of my findings with this method. I am amazed by the ones who are trying to rush you along. You can tell that they are getting frustrated by all of your questions and sometimes they will even get short with you for taking up so much of their precious time. This astounds me! You want me to come work for you and expect me to not worry about being informed first???!!!

A good recruiter and a good company will take the extra time required to find a good employee. If a recruiter is trying to get me in to orientation 2 days before it starts, that tells me a lot also. If they know I am currently working and they want me to immediately burn that bridge to come to them, that doesn't speak too highly of their organization.

I know enough about freight to know that even dedicated accounts are not conceived and signed overnight and then you start running them the next day. These things are well thought out and negotiated beforehand and would allow ample time to get the drivers in place before you commence running it. I will call total BS on that one and I would love to see something to back that up. If this is true, any company that is operating by the seat of their pants like this is not one that I want to be associated with anyway.

Anytime that you talk to a recruiter, whether it be for a dedicated account or just simple regional or OTR, they are clearly reading the information off to you. They may have much of it memorized, but there is some sort of printed description of the job. All I ask is either print that out and fax it to me or copy and paste and email it to me. If you are so hard-pressed to get the job filled that you cannot allow me an hour or two to review the information, then I'm not interested. Maybe I would be "losing out" on that great dedicated run, but so be it. Anyone who dives in without properly thinking things through will most likely be burned and truthfully they're as much to blame for it as the "lying recruiter" is, perhaps even more to blame. Companies run ads in newspapers for these jobs all of the time, they're usually in the paper weekly if not daily. That tells me that there is some time to fill the position.

We drivers just need to wise-up. We fall for this crap constantly and then come here to whine and cry about it when truthfully, you got what was coming to you for being ignorant and jumping the gun.

[devildice]

I think the standard email would be good and should really not take them any longer than a phone call.

That is exactly my point!!!

I have had many companies email me right away with the answers to my questions....real simple

It really makes me wonder if a recruiter, who is a direct reflection of that company has something to "hide" by not wanting to email or put his/her answers in writing.

when they refuse, no big deal to me, I just simply cross them off my list and move on to the next company.

[redsfan]

[quote="devildice"]

It really makes me wonder if a recruiter, who is a direct reflection of that company has something to "hide" by not wanting to email or put his/her answers in writing.

when they refuse, no big deal to me, I just simply cross them off my list and move on to the next company.

And this is exactly the type of approach that should be taken. Believe me, if everyone took this approach all companies would change their recruiting practices. You're not losing out on anything if you you choose not to make a rush to judgement.

[dollarshort]

I like the attitude of post at 3 minutes before quitting time...."Well I gotta go now to start my weekend". God forbid you should stay an extra five minutes so ANOTHER prestigious job could open up and you could fill it with the next breathing individual that is able to stand on his own.

Sheepdancer, you are just doing your job. No more, and maybe a little less. But your attitude is the perfect fit for JB. "Let's not get personal, just take what I give you" I love it.

Like someone else said, these dedicated accounts don't materialize overnight. More than likely you are just trying to replace someone else that quit a dedicated position that he or she thought would be great. But they didn't take the time to research the job details before coming aboard. Just because it's dedicated doesn't mean it a fantastic job. It may be dedicated crap. Alot of companies are using the term "dedicated" to make the position sound more appealing. Ask yourself, if it is such a great position why is it that another driver already driving for the company didn't take the job? It's because he already knows it's crap. But the poor guy with roses being shoved up his butt doesn't have a clue what he is getting into. Why? Because the recruiter didn't have time to answer all his questions.

[T * Storm]

What a bunch of crap! You don't have time to put it in writing? Then I would say I don't have time to come and work for you. The real reason a recruiter will not put anything in writing as because they can't remember all the lies they told you during the process to get you to come aboard.

I'm a "recruitee". The reason I chose Swift and the Truck Driving Academy in Sacramento is because my recruiter Robbie Wilson didn't blow smoke up my arse. He told me what he knew to be fact and told me the rest is not guaranteed for the reasons other recruiters said they wouldn't/couldn't put it in writing.

Also, you should see the washout of the recruits at the first day. More than half the students that came, were sent home the first day. The interviewer from Swift weeded a bunch out before we even got started. So, I don't think recruiters blow a lot of smoke due to the fact that if they said "no problem" to every question asked it would be a waste of time. I could be wrong, but just because a body shows up for class or orientation doesn't mean the recruiter gets their commission. I could be wrong, but I believe that the potential "hiree" has to finish training and orientation in order for the recruiter to get paid.

Also, as Sheephearder says, by the time the "recruitee" got through orientation / training - the dedicated route could have disappeared. On one of the posts on this site, I read how Swift stole an account by a low ball offer. I guess people think that the trucking industry is a static business. That every thing and every account is set in stone. Those truly in the business know that in order to be successful in this industry, one has to have intestinal fortitude and flexibility.

I don't have any expectations after I finish my training next week (and hopefully pass my CDL test so I don't get held back week after week until I get enough experience behind the wheel to pass the CDL - yes Swift will work with you till you pass) except that I will be able to begin another hard, yet rewarding, chapter in my my life. - Maybe I'm just part of a small percentage of drivers that seem to see this industry in a realistic light.

[Scoe]

When I was a recruiter at Gordon Trucking we ALWAYS put into writing what the details of the job that we were offering was.

PAY
HOME TIME
REGION
TRUCK PARK LOCATION
HOME TERMINAL

Yes, it was a template but the blanks had to be filled in prior to the recruit attending orientation. Another thing, contrary to what Sheep Dancer mentions about JB Hunt, at Gordon Trucking you were HIRED if you were invited to orientation. The only people who didn't make it through orientation were those candidates who failed the road test, the agility test or couldn't complete the paperwork required during orientation. To be invited to orientation you had to have already passed Gordon's drug test, physical and your previous employment was already verified as was your background check performed. Only then were candidates invited to orientation. It really held up some candidates as sometimes it would be 2 to 3 weeks before I could get them to orientation from the time I received their application. They also had to supply a recent MVR from ALL states they had been licensed in in the last 3 years.

I don't know if any of these policies are still in place at Gordon but that's how it was as of March 2004.

Once again...that sounds like an OTR job....if a driver wants an OTR Job in writing they just have to go to our website and print.
Im talking in general about dedicated jobs where I only need a few drivers.

Sorry if your somehow read into it that this was for OTR only. Every driver that I hired, and I hired 3 kinds of drivers, students, experienced and owner/operators, I had to fill out the written form stating what they would be doing and what they were hired for.

Our openings were for 17 western (OTR), NW regional (OTR home on weekends), dedicated (could be OTR, could be regional/local) and local home everyday. Now, every driver would have to sign this BEFORE arriving for orientation. This prevented a lot of I said/ he said.

Again, every driver was HIRED before receiving an invitation and travel itinerary to orientation. Not everyone made it through orientation but that was on them, they weren't kicked out for things we should have done prior to their arrival in orientation. It was a different way of hiring drivers and it made GTI different from your high volume hiring carrier.

[whorutommy]

T-Storm in your case, swift will weed out guys or gals brand new 2 the business.. Could be as minor has perscription glasses. They will have the time to correct the problem. What will happen u will be out there workin at a low pay rate, they now have started a sliddin pay scale close to the industry rate. Do a yr with swift and do it safe! U will move onto better and what those recruiters tell u, might be false. Pay attention to details ans forget tyhe verbal assults u will hear, during your 1 yr with swift. good luck!

[USXRecruiter4080]

Ok, I feel maybe I can help ya out here. Your recruiter probably can't legally give you ANYTHING in writing. Thats a liability. The best thing you can do is ask to speak with that recruiters direct supervisor and see if what the supervisor says matches what the recruiter does.

Alot of recruiters i've seen dont lie...they just dont tell you the whole picture. Know what I mean? They stick to that one comfortable side of the fence. Ask IN DEPTH QUESTIONS!!!! If he cant answer them then there's a problem.

[devildice]

Ok, I feel maybe I can help ya out here. Your recruiter probably can't legally give you ANYTHING in writing. Thats a liability.

I hear what you're saying. But in my case I am NOT looking for any sort of guarantee in writing that will promise me the world. My questions are just general questions such as:

-Do you use paper or electronic logs?
-What are your major freight lanes in Texas?
-Do you pay Practical, PC-Miller, Hub miles?
-When do your benefits kick in?
-At what MPH do you dispatch?

Just to name a few.

Alot of recruiters i've seen dont lie...they just dont tell you the whole picture. Know what I mean?

I agree with you 110%. I would like to believe that if they are got caught lying or misrepresenting the company that could lose their job.

And since I feel most won't tell you everything, that is exactly why I ask the questions. And if they refuse to answer the simple questions (like the sample I listed above) in writing (i.e. an email), then as I stated before, I just cross them off my list and move on.

[redsfan]

Ok, I feel maybe I can help ya out here. Your recruiter probably can't legally give you ANYTHING in writing. Thats a liability. The best thing you can do is ask to speak with that recruiters direct supervisor and see if what the supervisor says matches what the recruiter does.

Alot of recruiters i've seen dont lie...they just dont tell you the whole picture. Know what I mean? They stick to that one comfortable side of the fence. Ask IN DEPTH QUESTIONS!!!! If he cant answer them then there's a problem.

Not bashing on you or any recruiter for that matter. I know that they are just doing their job. Not all recruiters are necessarily liars or bad people at all. I won't lump them all together like that. However, some of them do whatever it takes to fill a seat and will lie over and over again. Asking to speak with their supervisor would do no good if the super's as big of a liar as the recruiter is...

Getting it in writing is not a legal liability at all, unless.....they have something to hide. There is a job description for every job, whether it be OTR, Regional or Dedicated. Faxing that job description would not be a liability at all. Neither would answering a few questions via fax or email. Sorry, no offence, but that dog don't hunt...

We all know that recruiters lie sometimes, just the same as drivers lie to get a job. There's no reason whatsoever that a company shouldn't offer that job description or detailed offer of employment in writing.

Some day the drivers won't be so naive as to accept the recruiter's word as gospel and they will get it in writing. If you don't then you have no one to blame, but yourself. I will say that the vast majority of companies that I have spoken to have had no problem sending me something in writing. In fact it's been very few who have refused. It makes my job of choosing a company so much easier.

[devildice]

I will say that the vast majority of companies that I have spoken to have had no problem sending me something in writing. In fact it's been very few who have refused. It makes my job of choosing a company so much easier.

I agree, for me, it has been the majority that responded to all my questions via email.

those that don't.....audios.... scratch them from the list.

[Sheepdancer]

I like the attitude of post at 3 minutes before quitting time...."Well I gotta go now to start my weekend". God forbid you should stay an extra five minutes so ANOTHER prestigious job could open up and you could fill it with the next breathing individual that is able to stand on his own.

Sheepdancer, you are just doing your job. No more, and maybe a little less. But your attitude is the perfect fit for JB. "Let's not get personal, just take what I give you" I love it.

Like someone else said, these dedicated accounts don't materialize overnight. More than likely you are just trying to replace someone else that quit a dedicated position that he or she thought would be great. But they didn't take the time to research the job details before coming aboard. Just because it's dedicated doesn't mean it a fantastic job. It may be dedicated crap. Alot of companies are using the term "dedicated" to make the position sound more appealing. Ask yourself, if it is such a great position why is it that another driver already driving for the company didn't take the job? It's because he already knows it's crap. But the poor guy with roses being shoved up his butt doesn't have a clue what he is getting into. Why? Because the recruiter didn't have time to answer all his questions.

Just because I leave the office doesnt mean I quit working for the weekend. My job is never done. I hire just as many drivers from home or in my car as I do from the office. Hell, because my own personal recruiting website says " Call my cell phone anytime" I got a call at 3am sunday morning and talked to a driver.
Now with that said...why would I stay late to post on a thread where its just me telling you how I do my job and you pretty much saying "WELL THATS THE WRONG WAY TO DO IT"

[arky]

I have to jump in here. I think research is the best way to find a good company that will not lie to you. Right here on CAD is the place to start. I didn't ask for anything in writing here at Maverick, simply because I never found a negative thread on them. After sitting through orientation last week and talking to other recruits, I'll tell you that it's a pretty safe bet that what they tell you will be the truth and nothing but. The entire company is built on honesty and respect to drivers and it shows up when your here in Little Rock.

I know my recruiter was very helpful and nice and I have nothing but goof things to say about her. She was there to field questions through the entire process and told me more than once to call her ANYTIME that I needed something or had a question.

Hometime? Maverick gets 97-98% of their drivers home for the weekend...EVERY weekend. The CEO gets a report each Monday showing what the home time % was for the weekend. They will show you these numbers in orientation. One of the office guys told us the other day that the hometime % fell to like 96% for a couple weeks last year and that the CEO was all over everyone till the % got back up to 97-98%. They do what they say.

My point? Go with a good solid company that you don't have to get it in writing to belive it. If you have to do that to hold them to their word, their still not worth your time.

Pm me anytime if you wanna ask questions about Maverick.

Arky