Flatbed is not for noobs

[Snowman7]

That's what I'm doing! We didnt all have the problems you did. :wink:

[Windwalker]

When you do it everyday you get pretty good at it. Leave your racks and chains in place, then when you get there you just throw them thru the eye and tighten your ratchet binders. If you have the proper strength equipment 45k requires 4-6 secrements depending on shotgun vs suicide. Not that hard to tighten 6 ratchets. I was referring to the act of securing and not waiting, checking in and out etc, you can't control waiting for the shipper. If I wasnt already setup for a coil and knew thats where I was going then I would setup after I delivered, or I would setup while waiting in line. I was always legal. Point is, its alot closer to 30 minutes then 4 hrs. Maybe you were one of the guys always holding up the line! I'll race ya if you want, same securements.

It depends on how often you load a steel coil. If you've just delivered a load of crates of glass, and only pick up a coil, maybe once in two months, you're not going to have things left on the bed. With the storage space available, you will have to dig through some of the things you've used since the last coil, and it will take longer. If all you haul is steel coils, you use the same things every load. Makes a big difference. Also makes a difference how they are loaded. Cross-wise, lengthwise, or "eye to the sky".

[nrvsreck]

When you do it everyday you get pretty good at it. Leave your racks and chains in place, then when you get there you just throw them thru the eye and tighten your ratchet binders. If you have the proper strength equipment 45k requires 4-6 secrements depending on shotgun vs suicide. Not that hard to tighten 6 ratchets. I was referring to the act of securing and not waiting, checking in and out etc, you can't control waiting for the shipper. If I wasnt already setup for a coil and knew thats where I was going then I would setup after I delivered, or I would setup while waiting in line. I was always legal. Point is, its alot closer to 30 minutes then 4 hrs. Maybe you were one of the guys always holding up the line! I'll race ya if you want, same securements.

Racing?! What does truck driving have to do with racing? I'd really appreciate you explaining to me what "racing" is and what place it has in driving a truck responsibly and safely. I never held up anyone. Every time I'd pick up a coil there'd be several bays available. But, I'd never cut corners just to get out of someone's way. If another driver doesn't like it, or if a crane operator is sitting there waiting, and waiting, and waiting... so what? Is their job on the line? Is someone else's safety on the line? Is a carload of kids on the line? To them, no. To me, yes. Everything is on the line. I never gave a damn about those idiotic yahoos that only threw two chains over a 45,000lb coil. If they lose that coil, it's their responsiblity. Not mine. My responsiblity is to cover my azz and not kill or injure anyone else. I still get paid the same. So, you make 950 and I make 875. I don't care. I take care of myself and those around me. If I kill someone because of my negligence, I couldn't live with that. Could you? Probably so, since you only care about "racing" the guy next to you, not about safety.

I remember a time I was at a steel mill up in East Chicago. One of those big mills that covered several city blocks. I had to pick up a 47,000lb coil as did all the local drivers. I remember these guys in their ratty old FLD's and worn-out steel trailers throwing at most four chains over their loads. That's not even enough to meet federal regulations, much less give me a feeling of security. These guys were in and out in fifteen minutes or less. I spent at least an hour securing my coil. I think I threw about seven chains over that baztard, a 5klb strap, padding tarp, and tent tarp. During none of that time did I hold anyone up. There about five or six bays, and the locals were in and out in no time. At one point another TMC driver backed in next to me. Apparently he was a rookie because he asked me how he should go about securing his coil. His coil was the same as mine as going to the same destination. I recommended he put at least six chains on it, unwind those chains too, and make sure he feel comfortable first before leaving the mill. I left just as he was getting started. The next day at the yard we delivered at, he pulled in just as I was finishing up. He yanked his tarp off and I was shocked at what I saw. He had only put four chains on that coil. Four chains on a 47,000lb coil! I didn't look at him or speak to him after that. I didn't care. If he wants to risk his life, the lives of the vehicles around him, and his career, just to save a few minutes, that's his choice. The same as the choice you make each day. If you want to risk it all just to save a few minutes and make an extra $50 here and there that's your choice, but I don't want any part of it. I won't do it. I just hope you never kill anyone in your haste to make a buck. Sorry man, but don't belong behind a wheel.

[redsfan]

I am definitely no super trucker and I don't know that I ever secured and tarped a coil in 15 minutes, but 30-40 minutes is very doable and I was always PO'd if it took me longer than 45 minutes. I couldn't imagine it ever taking 4 hours...

I always loved steel coils, because in my opinion, the were the easiest loads to secure and tarp. Once you spend a week or two in securement training, you have a pretty good handle on most loads. The first thing I would find out when checking in with a shipper was exactly what I was getting and how it was to be loaded. That way by the time the loader got around to me I already had all of the chains, straps, binders, tarps, etc. that I would need laying on the trailer.

One thing I do know is that your load should never shift. If it's secured properly, you can roll the trailer and the load still be intact. What always scared the hell out of me was to see a dry van loading the same skidded coils as me with nothing to secure them, but the front of the trailer.

Flatbedding is not for everyone, but trucking period isn't for everyone either. Just make sure that you start with a good company that will train you properly whether it's skateboard, dry van, tanker or whatever.

[nrvsreck]

I am definitely no super trucker and I don't know that I ever secured and tarped a coil in 15 minutes, but 30-40 minutes is very doable and I was always PO'd if it took me longer than 45 minutes. I couldn't imagine it ever taking 4 hours...

I always loved steel coils, because in my opinion, the were the easiest loads to secure and tarp. Once you spend a week or two in securement training, you have a pretty good handle on most loads. The first thing I would find out when checking in with a shipper was exactly what I was getting and how it was to be loaded. That way by the time the loader got around to me I already had all of the chains, straps, binders, tarps, etc. that I would need laying on the trailer.

One thing I do know is that your load should never shift. If it's secured properly, you can roll the trailer and the load still be intact. What always scared the hell out of me was to see a dry van loading the same skidded coils as me with nothing to secure them, but the front of the trailer.

Flatbedding is not for everyone, but trucking period isn't for everyone either. Just make sure that you start with a good company that will train you properly whether it's skateboard, dry van, tanker or whatever.

Hell, I almost always knew what I was getting before hand. I'd have everything laid out. Straps, chains, bungies, dunnage, racks, everything, right where I wanted it. But as far as cutting corners, I'm just not going to do it. Too much at risk.

[redsfan]

I am definitely no super trucker and I don't know that I ever secured and tarped a coil in 15 minutes, but 30-40 minutes is very doable and I was always PO'd if it took me longer than 45 minutes. I couldn't imagine it ever taking 4 hours...

I always loved steel coils, because in my opinion, the were the easiest loads to secure and tarp. Once you spend a week or two in securement training, you have a pretty good handle on most loads. The first thing I would find out when checking in with a shipper was exactly what I was getting and how it was to be loaded. That way by the time the loader got around to me I already had all of the chains, straps, binders, tarps, etc. that I would need laying on the trailer.

One thing I do know is that your load should never shift. If it's secured properly, you can roll the trailer and the load still be intact. What always scared the hell out of me was to see a dry van loading the same skidded coils as me with nothing to secure them, but the front of the trailer.

Flatbedding is not for everyone, but trucking period isn't for everyone either. Just make sure that you start with a good company that will train you properly whether it's skateboard, dry van, tanker or whatever.

Hell, I almost always knew what I was getting before hand. I'd have everything laid out. Straps, chains, bungies, dunnage, racks, everything, right where I wanted it. But as far as cutting corners, I'm just not going to do it. Too much at risk.

I would never cut corners either, hence the reason that a load should never shift, but there's a big difference between working quickly and cutting corners. I've seen guys who looked like they were moving at a snail's pace and they would be done before me. All because they had done it many times and they knew exactly what they were doing.

I always double-checked everything and I always did load checks while in route, which I know a lot of other guys do not do. It just never took me 4 hours. I also saw a lot of guys who threw things together half-a**ed and wouldn't have nearly enough securements, so I see your point with that. My point is, if you have the proper training and you do it right to begin with and you're absolutely sure of it why would it take 4 hours?

[Snowman7]

nrvsreck/One

You both need to reread this thread. My first post was basically agreeing with fred that flat bedding can be done by a new driver with proper training and and common sense. I did state 15-30 minutes to chain down a coil. You all chose to key on 15 minutes. Maybe 15 minutes is exaggerating but for a small coil not including tarping its still a best case scenario. 30 minutes would be the average and every coil was secured properly. Could it take an hour? Sure it could. When deciding how many chains you use you must know the working load limit of your chains. Ours were 8800 lbs. DOT regs state you must secure for half the weight, look it up. Therefore a fifty thousand pound coil would require 4 of MY chains. I cannot speak for YOUR chains. If loaded shotgun then you would also need two securements over the top and a trip block. Everything I did was 100% or more by the book. One then chose to call me Supertrucker and insinuate that I'm a liar and nrvsreck chose to call me unsafe. So yeah I may have taken a shot at nrvsreck by calling him slow but it was done tounge in cheek and only because you first called me unsafe. And One, I still havent said anything to you. All I did was contradict your opinion that flatbedding is not for noobies, and I think I'm entitled to my opinion. I was surprised that you picked a coil to illustrate your point as I agree with redsfan that a coil is one of the easiest securements you'll ever do. If it took 4 hrs then your company could not have trained you at all and thats not your fault its theirs. Perhaps you could tell us who it was so noobs could avoid that company. I was trained at Valley Transportation in Ohio as were many noobs and we were trained well. TMC and Maverick also do a great job. I've met many of their drivers. So my point is that noobs can and do flatbed succesfully. Sorry if you dont agree. Is it harder? Probably, I didnt start on a van so I dont know. Is it for everyone? No. But to say nobody should do it is only your opinion based on your experience. Your entitled to your opinion but you could lay off the personal attacks on me for having mine. Why all the attitude? Now I see why All Metals in Spartanburg wanted to call the sheriff on you.

[GoldiesPlating]

45,000 pound coil for ME = 2 coil racks, 2 rubber mats, 2 4X4's, 5-6 chains and binders and a tarp. Time without tarping 30 minutes including setting up the securement and 30 minutes to tarp. Has it taken longer sometimes? Yes. But I don't count the smoke break or the Pepsi Cola rest period. :wink:

[Snake_Ize]

45,000 pound coil for ME = 2 coil racks, 2 rubber mats, 2 4X4's, 5-6 chains and binders and a tarp. Time without tarping 30 minutes including setting up the securement and 30 minutes to tarp. Has it taken longer sometimes? Yes. But I don't count the smoke break or the Pepsi Cola rest period. :wink:

Has TMC changed their policy Fred? In orientation they stressed, make that demanded, that we learn the 20 steps necessary for securing any coil over 40,000 lbs. It included 4 coil racks, 4 rubber mats, 6 chains and a strap over every coil. The securement class seemed very adamant that this be the minimum equipment necessary for the coil. A couple other points they made was it was ALWAYS loaded suicide and if the customer wants it any other way a call to safety was necessary. A strap is thrown over EVERY coil and there is a 3" maximum for the coil to be above the deck.

[tweety bird]

I can't speak for securing coils (so why the heck am I even posting here? just to stir the pot!), but in car haul there was a lot of difference between two drivers loading.

Some guys could load a car in 15 minutes. Some guys took an hour. I'm talking port cars- same cars. I knew two guys who would go into Porsche together and they had a system to load 8 Carreras/Boxters in an enclosed trailer and they'd get both trucks done within 2 hours. It always took us about 2 hours to load just our 1 trailer.

I don't know if they cut corners, but I have a hard time believing they didn't. I know they didn't do as thorough of an inspection as we did, though.

Anyway- my point: some drivers secure faster than others. And I believe the Snowman IS the original "super trucker" and has the belt buckle to proove it

[GoldiesPlating]

45,000 pound coil for ME = 2 coil racks, 2 rubber mats, 2 4X4's, 5-6 chains and binders and a tarp. Time without tarping 30 minutes including setting up the securement and 30 minutes to tarp. Has it taken longer sometimes? Yes. But I don't count the smoke break or the Pepsi Cola rest period. :wink:

Has TMC changed their policy Fred?

NO ABSOLUTELY NOT. This is just how I've done it SOME times. The 20 steps are STILL the RIGHT way to do it.

In orientation they stressed, make that demanded, that we learn the 20 steps necessary for securing any coil over 40,000 lbs. It included 4 coil racks, 4 rubber mats,

true you CAN use 4 racks to keep the wood from bowing on a wide coil. Me? I use two if the coil is narrow but heavy and SOMETIMES 4 if it's wider.

6 chains and a strap over every coil.

the strap was taught in orientation but was actuallly something I FORGOT until you just reminded me now. I never used one. Actually I don't see the point? I have 60,000-70,000 pounds of securement on a 45,000 pound coil so what the hell's the strap gonna do?

The securement class seemed very adamant that this be the minimum equipment necessary for the coil. A couple other points they made was it was ALWAYS loaded suicide and if the customer wants it any other way a call to safety was necessary. A strap is thrown over EVERY coil and there is a 3" maximum for the coil to be above the deck.

[nrvsreck]

Need to work on your quotes a little better Fred. At first I thought you hadn't posted anything until I started reading through it.

In TMC-land it's one coil rack per 10,000 lbs of weight. Bad idea to use only two for a 40,000+lb coil. It has nothing to do with the width of the coil. Once you see your oak 4x4's starting to bow you know something's wrong. As far as chains, TMC says one chain (10,000 lbs WLL) for each 10,000 lbs of weight, plus 50%. For a 45,000 lb coil, that means, what, seven chains? Minimum of seven anyway. Put one laterally, then six progressively spaced front and rear. No X-chains, regardless of TMC's policy. That was outlawed several years ago by the federal goverment. That middle one is kind of iffy though, as you won't have much room for your binder. Either way, it's still a good idea to throw one or two straps over the top. Each TMC strap has a WLL of 5,000 lbs. One strap is the equivalent of half a chain. Two straps is one whole chain right over the top. Could save your azz in a tough braking situation. True about loading suicide for 35,000+ lb coils. More than that could upset the balance of the trailer and increases the potential of a rollover. TMC's trailers are designed in such a way that a suicide coil will be balanced perfectly over the framerails, whereas a shotgun coil will have most of it's weight right in the center. Not necessarily the safest method.

[special k]

I don't know about you guys but a lot of mills I go into don't want you to put a chain or strap over the top. Too many guys damaging the coils by tightening the top like it's the only thing holding it on the trailer. I'm with snowman 30 to 60 minutes tops. If I put a strap/chain on the top it's only for decoration and usally hand tight (no cheater bar on a binder) I use 9,000 lb rule and have been checked/inspected numerous times and have never had a problem. Don't forget DOT guys have eyes and can count too If they see you on the road with seven chains and they know most guys go on the 9,000 lb rule how much do they think that coil weighs? Why do you think those local guys put the bare minimum on? Talk to some old-timers about chain tie-downs if you want to scare yourself. Common sense will save more lives than extra chains ever will.

[choperbob]

:shock: i have been pulling a dryvan for 13 months now and that is how long i been driving big trucks, to read some of you folks i better stay where i am at. well now, i managed to get new york coils endorsement which only means i read the book. how many of you drivers started pulling flats without any flatbed experience? from some of the posts i get the impression that the only way to safely pull flats is to have years of flat experience, i don't have the luxury of starting with years of flat exp. so since the topic is sorta about helping us rookies why don't you just give the help i am sure you got early on in your rookie days and keep in mide we all started without exp at some time. thanx

[wanderingson]

I agree with the original poster on this....I think to learn flatbedding with no prior truck driving experience might be too overwhelming for most new drivers. A recipe for disaster, in my opinion. Of course, there could be exceptions, like Goldiesplating, and others who might have a knack for it.

I pulled dry vans for 6 years before getting into flatbeds. I currently do both, but lately mostly flats. With 6 years experience, I was still nervous as hell about my flat loads at first. (still am sometimes ) I didn't have any classroom training, just a few days out with a driver to show me how its all done. I've learned a lot on my own, and by talking to other drivers.
When you start out flatbedding, you'll find yourself watching the load in your mirrors more than watching the road ahead of you. At least I did.
Not a good thing for a new driver to be worrying about the securement of the load, and being distracted with that. A new driver needs to focus more on just driving the truck safely. Just my opinion.

Here is a link that will be helpful, for vets and newbies alike. It's about cargo securement, from the FMCSA website. Lots of good info in there!
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul.../cs-policy.htm

[GoldiesPlating]

Is this the "ostrich syndrome"? Dry van loads can be just as dangerous, the difference is you can't SEE the load. So you're telling me if you can't see it it won't hurt you, or it's safer?? At least if something starts going wrong on a flatbed, you can see it and fix it before it kills you.

[uglymutt]

OMG, hehehehehehehehehehe , sorry but I just have to laugh.... you all crack me up

[One]

Is this the "ostrich syndrome"? Dry van loads can be just as dangerous, the difference is you can't SEE the load. So you're telling me if you can't see it it won't hurt you, or it's safer?? At least if something starts going wrong on a flatbed, you can see it and fix it before it kills you.

Most of the freight in dryboxes is not nearly as prone to 'growing legs and going sightseeing' on you. Yes, maybe the odd pallettized coil or a pipe or two in my LTL trailers but mostly boxes...One thing you have to consider are the laws of friction: It takes way more energy to get something sliding than it does to keep it sliding- therefore if in the rare occasion a dryvay does haul a small coil or small coils on palletts, even if its 20 palletts of pallettized coils, they are nowhere nearly as dangerous as a single large coil or pipe on a flat.
Some reasons I think this is so is first of all the palletts are pushed against eachother from the bulkhead back, so the friction surface is exponentially larger than the few square inches where the coilrack and lumber touch your rubber-mat and deck on a flat- therfore it takes a good bit to get all 20 palletts moving at the same time and then you still have to consider the strengh of the bulkhead where the palletts touch. If one of the front one leaned over it would likely not muster enough momentum to go through the bulkhead.
There is not much possibility for securement in a drybox, some have e-tracks for loadbars with are strong, but most dont. loadlocks with rubber pads pushing against the walls can only help prevent something from tipping over and are used mostly on the end of the load where forces can only push backward.
I really think that the big difference is the friction surface and the fact that in a van you have more high volume items and MORE items than in flatbeds...All in all there is a whole lot less to worry about in vans than in flats, and that is what the point of the tread was b4 it turned into another 'How to secure a coil' thread we have so many of..

[redsfan]

All in all there is a whole lot less to worry about in vans than in flats, and that is what the point of the tread was b4 it turned into another 'How to secure a coil' thread we have so many of..

I would concede the fact on friction and the ability to move forward in a van due to the bulkhead. Although a bulkhead or coil block used on a flat is much stronger than the sheet metal front on a van trailer. The huge difference to me is the ability for a skidded coil, or anything heavy for that matter to, to bounce in a dry van. There is nothing to secure it to the floor at all and the coils are only held to the pallet by small bands which are not meant to be a securement at all. Once it bounces and breaks loose there is nothing to stop the coil from moving forward.

A securement in flatbed is not only meant to prevent forward or aft movement, it is also meant to keep it from bouncing as well. There is nothing to prevent this type of movement in a dryvan.

A skidded coil was just an example that was used. The original post was that flatbedding is not for noobs. This is entirely one person's opinion, nothing factual here at all. The coils were used as a reference from flatbedders to show that if you've been properly trained in securement, there's no reason for a newbie to be scared of starting out in flatbed either.

[One]

With an airride trailor there wont be much bouncing if atall...with a spring trailer thats light, or you lock up the brakes, yes....But so what? If its loaded right, it can bounce, as long as it has no space to wander around due to space around the pallet....a loadlock on the rear will prevent wandering to the back...Am I wrong?