Stick shift training question again.

[coolbreeze]

I start school within a few weeks and have no stick shift experience yet. A friend of mine last night said he knows someone that has a rig which has a straight 7 transmission, who would be willing to help me out some before I start training.
Would this be an acceptable type of transmission to at least get some experience on?
I ask this because awhile back I was told from people here that learning standard on a car or small truck is NOT a good idea as the shifting is alot different on a big rig. Is a straight 7 that much different than a 10 speed transmission? (This is the type of transmission the schools trucks have)

Thanks in advance.

[Rawlco]

A straight 7 will be VERY different from a ten speed. It will be better to let the driving school teach you from scratch.

[Midnight Flyer]

A straight 7 will be VERY different from a ten speed. It will be better to let the driving school teach you from scratch.

Ten-four on letting the driving school teach you! Just be patient with yourself, listen to your instructors, and practice, practice, practice! Don't expect to learn shifting in one day. In a big rig you have to double clutch as big truck transmissions don't have synchronizers in them and you shift by engine RPMs and sounds and watching your tachometer. After learning and practice it'll become second nature to you. :rock:

[ben45750]

If you can shift a 7 speed a 10 speed will be easy. I started in a 13 speed, then went to a 10 speed. At Conway we have 7 speeds in our Sterling's, much harder shifting them than a 10 speed. The gears are way far apart and the a bigger gap in the rpm's (have to shift much slower) I would take him up on it so you can learn the basics on how to shift a non synchronized transmission.

[bentstrider]

As for me, upshifting seems to be no problem.
It's when it comes to slowing down that I seem to have the most trouble.
I'm about to start driving again myself after only getting about a month of driving in to begin with, two years ago.
I heard from some drivers I've talked to that you're supposed to;
1)Let off of the the accelerator, disengage clutch from flywheel, then shift from high gear to neutral.
2)Quickly tap the accelerator, wait for RPM to slightly drop, engage clutch with flywheel, then shift to lower gear.
3)Repeat this step until you're at the gear level you desire.

I also heard that when you tap the break to slow down, you should also use this step, along with "quick shifting" to even lower gears due to a quicker deceleration.
But, I'm not trying to be an expert.
Just a Jedi that didn't finish OTR training and want to return to complete the task in its entirety.
Not to mention gear grind pi$$es me of hard time!!!

[yeti]

You have no shifting experience at all???? Go find someone with a standard shift car or pickup and learn to shift that FIRST!!!!!! If you can't use a clutch in a car your not going to be able to do it in a truck.

Doesn't matter if its a 5 sp, 10, 7 13 , 15 or a set of sticks, you best have some idea how to operate a standard trannie before you take on a truck.

[jamesinge]

7 speed is not syncro either.
Shigting a 7 speed same thing as any other big rig without a splitter.

[JPat000]

If you can't use a clutch in a car your not going to be able to do it in a truck.

I disagree. If all you've driven is an automatic, it's easier to learn double-clutch. I hear people who've driven a standard have a tendency to wear out the clutch/transmission of a truck because they always want to push in clutch, then switch to gear, usually bypassing neutral.

It's not a huge difference, but I'd say if all you've driven is an automatic, you'll pick up the double-clutch faster, as you won't be used to hitting the clutch just once.[/quote]

[fastereddie]

It's all about consistency and timing. Try using 1500 as an upshift point and 1000 as a downshift point. A new driver will watch the tach until they become familiar with the engine sound at various rpms.
On level ground an upshift will cause about a 400-500 rpm drop. When about to shift to a higher gear @1500 as you let up on fuel pedal and pull lever to neutral, rpms drop about 400 (2 seconds)..at that point pull lever to higher gear(using fingertips helps you to 'feel gears'). Get used to a 1 and 2 rhythm.(1 to pull out of gear, 2 to put into gear)
Downhill shifts are at a lower rpm and done slightly quicker because truck is not losing gear speed as fast.
Uphill shifts are done at a higher rpm because of the greater truck speed loss between shifts and the shifts are done slightly slower.

Downshifting -brake and watch tach approach 1000..pull lever to neutral.blip pedal to increase engine speed 500-600..move(fingertip pressure) lever to the next lower position and it will fall into place at 1400-1500 rpm. There is a 1and 2 rhythm involved in this as well.
Downshifting downhill is done at a quicker pace.
Downshifting uphill is done slower.
Also memorize the range of road speeds at 1000 to 1500 rpm in all the gears so you can find a gear when a missed shift occurs. Example: You quickly brake and slow to 25 mph and you're in 8th...you should have memorized 25 mph = 5th @ 1500...blip pedal to 1600 and put into 5th.(these rpms and speeds are different based on how your truck is specd.)
Once you become used to the truck you can tell your speed without the speedo.

You can also treat a syncro tranny like a non-syncro and shift without clutch..timing, listening, feel shifter with fingertips.

To all the experienced drivers..comments/corrections to the above is welcomed.

[yeti]

[quote="coolbreeze"]I start school within a few weeks and have no stick shift experience yet.

forget all this gear this and splitter that crap. Gears, ratios, splits, and patterns have no meaning whatsoever based on the question. He cannot drive a stick at all!!!! Put him on a hill in a car at a red light and you might as well go home for lunch cause he is still gonna be on that hill at supper time! :?

At least learn to drive a stick well in a 4 wheeler. You don't perform heart surgery before you know what a heart is, least I hope not. :shock: If you can't take a standard shift car, on a steep hill, and start off smoothly from a full stop, no hopping, no stalling, no roll back, you will be better off learning to drive that then worrying about all that other Bologna.

Start at the beginning. Master the basics, everything else will be much easier if you do it in that manner. Don't worry whether the pattern of a 7 speed is different from that of a 10 speed if you can't make an old 3 speed on the column go.

I just can't imagine worrying about anything else until you have the basics down cold. A baby doesen't take its first steps in the Boston Marathon, you shouldn't try to learn to drive a stick in anything much larger than a pickup.

[Interceptor]

I learnt straight on a 13 and like the others said just take your time and practice makes perfect make sure you learn the double clutching technique ive seen way to many drivers get all cowboy and strart shifting without the clutch then when their in a bind in heavy weather they dont know how to clutch

[bentstrider]

Well, you sure got that part about "autotrans-drivers" being better the first time at driving "non-synchro trans".
Before learning to drive a truck at 21, I only recently got my car license at 20(kind of ironic since I choose not to own a car and ride a bicycle instead now for everyday personal use).
Anywho, after putting in a year of normal driving, I get all scared of the term "stick shift".
For the one month I had driven/trained, I got the pattern down somewhat well. At least to the point where I wasn't stalling out as often.
I recently drove a friends, 4-speed Dodge Colt.
I was double-clutching that thing even though it was synchro.
I guess if double-clutching becomes a habit, it's a good thing.....
right??

[yeti]

OK let me try and illustrate this with a simple absurdity.

This guy "Warmwind" is gonna start truck driving school in a couple of weeks, he has no experience reading or writing. He has a friend that owns a felt tip marker, and will let him practice writing his name with it. He was wondering, since he heard that writing with a pencil is not the same as writing with a pen, should he get some practice using this marker since pens and pencils are not the same. Is a marker that much different than a pen? I understand writing with a pencil is much different than with a pen, so is this a good idea?

The replies he gets explain the merits of using a click type pen over a twist retraction, or how gel ink is much smoother than plain old ball point ink, and how much better roller ball is than all the rest, lets not even throw a sharpie into the mix. What does it matter what writing instrument he trys, he still can't write his name! A pen, a pencil, and a marker all do the same thing, they transfer a medium to paper, this we call writing. A pencil is easiest, that's why we learn with them in first and second grade. Its easy and you can correct your mistakes before they grow into something uncontrollable.

A pen, a marker and a pencil all perform the same basic function, they turn movement into writing. The clutch in a '47 VW bug, an '87 Chevy Blazer, and an '07 KW 900 all do the same thing, they transfer power from the engine to the transmission. They all do exactly the same thing in exactly the same way, nothing more nothing less. What do shift patterns, range changes, gear splits or double clutching have to do with anything if he can't get the vehicle moving in the first place? The VW is like a pencil, its easier to learn with, you can correct your mistakes quicker, and the mistakes you do make will be much smaller and less costly than what will happen with that KW.

Why would you think of spending thousands of dollars going to a trucking school to learn what should have been covered in high school drivers ed?
There is no shame in not having experience on a stick, its not hard to learn, look at all the teenagers running around in their souped up jap crap. We're not talking advanced calculus here, its just timed mechanical movements, and paying a little attention to whats going on around you. Borrow a stick auto, fill it with gas and go drive, drive in an empty lot, drive in traffic, stop on steep hills then get moving again. Drive till its mt, fill it up and start again. 2 tanks of gas and you should know 90% of what shifting is all about, 4 tanks and your muscles will have started to learned what to do with out your brain telling it what to do when, you'll be able to start on a hill without stalling or rolling back, your leg will go to the clutch, as you are stopping long before the car starts shuttering to remind you, you will be able to lay your hand on the stick and know just what gear its in, just by the feel of its position. Learn a simple 4 speed H pattern, don't worry about splits and ranges or double clutching, that they will teach you in school

Don't waste your time in school just trying to learn to get the truck to idle off, learn how to engage that clutch before you get there. Leave the finite amount of time you get in school for learning how to backup, or swing a right turn, or split down from OD to direct. Going in with no experience in a standard at all, it'll be like learning the proper way to fill out a log book when you still can't even write your name.

Double clutching a 4 speed Dodge Colt? Ah big deal, once in my pov I pulled into a coop, the sign said open, the truck in front of me went in and in I went also. A momentary loss of situational awareness is nothing to brag about, but sure can be amusing at times. And yes I do have a restless left leg, it hunts for a clutch even when I know there is none there. :P

[coolbreeze]

Been reading all the replies and great information to take in.
Just want to say its appreciated.
So many different opinions I'm still not sure what to do! lol

[coolbreeze]

Actually, I know someone in my family who can rent a Penske rig for a week for me and practicing on it.
Even if all I do with it is drive it around my block practicing low shifting and backing up,etc.

Thoughts?

[RockyMtnProDriver]

From a driving school instructors perspective.

Let the school teach you how to drive the truck.

Otherwise you defeating the purpose of going there.

The hardest person there is to teach how to drive and shift, is someone with a little experience.

They will spend a significant amount of time re-teaching and breaking bad habits.

One of the rules of my school are that no student is allowed to do drive along, have someone else work with them, or practice driving when they come to my school.

Let me do the job you have hired me to do.

[NYRaze]

I went to a driving school and they had single clutch internationals. I was never tought how to double shift. Recently, I had a road test for UPS and i failed cause the trucks are double-clutch. I was driving a 9-speed Mack.

[TruckerChris]

You have no shifting experience at all???? Go find someone with a standard shift car or pickup and learn to shift that FIRST!!!!!! If you can't use a clutch in a car your not going to be able to do it in a truck.

Doesn't matter if its a 5 sp, 10, 7 13 , 15 or a set of sticks, you best have some idea how to operate a standard trannie before you take on a truck.

you're crazy. before truck school I had never driven any kind of manual tranny... I learned it.

I just have to say from my experience when I learned to drive. My car is a 5 speed, that made it much harder for me to grasp how to shift a 10 speed. I have a lot of habbits in my car that won't work in a big truck.

Like someone else said, you shifted based on RPMs, you have to double clutch (well at least to pass the CDL test :wink: )

I would suggest letting the school teach you from scratch.

[RockyMtnProDriver]

I have said it before and I will say it again.

The easiest person there is to teach how to shift a truck type standard transmission is someone who has never driven a standard in any kind of vehicle before. And the easiest person who fits that is a 19 to 25 year old woman.

Sorry men, you are much harder to train than women. Significantly so.

I have never had a woman yet try and hurt my truck with strength. And I have to train almost every man how not to do that.

Of the hundreds of men that I have trained, I can count on my two hands how many of them where not abusive to the truck at one time or other in the course.