So excited!

[shyykatt]

Neat pics raven. OMG, I collected those model horses too- called "Breyers" right? I just sold my entire collection (600+) over the internet, a woman in Oklahoma bought most of them. I was so obsessed w/them growing up; I made little saddles and bridles for them, blankets, halters, etc. My dad made me a barn for them, I used to photograph them too, and people would say that they looked like real horses in the pics! I even showed them- it was crazy. Well, they can be expensive to buy, so I had to choose between the real horses or the fake ones.....cant ride the fake ones (but at least ya dont have to clean up after them lol)so I sold them all, broke my heart, but im over it. Yeah, Ive seen 'Cloud'- pretty neat. The only part that disturbed me a bit was when that one stallion killed that foal by shaking it to death; it had to be done b/c the foal was sick, but that was violent to watch! Its a shame that mustang herds are nearly gone now- I had a chance to see them when I was Medora, North dakota a couple years ago, but all I saw were Buffalo! My neighbors up the street adopted 2 mustangs last year from South Dakota- boy are they ever pretty! I have thought about doing that too one day. I love to ride hard, and I guess they are tough and smart and very surefooted.

[shyykatt]

Heres one of that wonderful stud colt we lost in 05'; his name was "Majestic Witez" aka "Blake"- this was taken shortly before he died.
('Witez' comes from his sire-line, a famous stallion rescued during WWII, "Witez II" was his name- was brought to the US and sired so many champions, cant count them all)

[RedRaven]

I think horses are the number one most beautiful animal on earth... They just take your breathe away sometimes...

I think that the Stallion (named "Looking Glass"), in the "Cloud", documentary that attacked, and killed that new born foal, did it for three reasons.

One the foal wasn't his, "Looking Glass" sniffed the foal before he attacked, and killed it... It's like a lot of other animals. The males will kill young that are not their own...

Second, I think that the band Stallion that was the sire wasn't paying attention, and doing his job to protect his entire band.

Third, it also could have been that the band the foal belonged too, realized the foal wouldn't be able to get to it's feet. Abandoned it, leaving it vulnerable to attack by the Stallion that did kill it (doing so because it was not one of his own foals)...

I suppose a horse expert would have to explain why he did it... I'm no expert, I've just observed a lot of animal behavior, from those I've worked with in the past, my own pets, and definitely watched plenty of animal nature programs... :wink:

I have Breyer model horses too... I did give a few away when I got older, but, I kept my favorites... I have a Palomino Quarter Horse, and I made him a bridle, blanket, and I got him a western saddle... I have an Andalusian, an Appaloosa my father gave me for one birthday when I was a kid, and I actually bought a few years ago a collection of wild Mustang... They were more for decoration, since I have a horse theme going on in my living room...

I may not have the real thing, but, I still surround myself with their presence... Even if they are in photos, and models... :wink:

There are plenty of places around here where I can go to see horses, and recently a place not far from here that only taught lessons, has now decided to offer trail rides as well... I've not gone yet... One of these days I will... It's not cheap to rent a horse for an hour ride. They are charging around $35.00 an hour...

I think when I was a kid, it cost $15.00 to $20.00 an hour... But, it's been a long time since I've gone riding...

When I lived with a former "roommate" who actually owned an old farm house, and had two horses she used in endurance riding... We took both her horses out for a nice trail ride one day... But, she was cruel to her old mare... She kicked this poor horse in the stomach, when she was trying to saddle her, yelling at her. Because she said, she was trying to bloat herself up... I couldn't say anything to her, because I was renting a room in her home. I didn't want there to be a conflict that could cost me the roof over my head... But, really I wanted to give her, what she gave that poor horse... The horse did have an attitude sometimes, but, there was no need to kick the life out of that poor old horse...

I believe there are two types of people who deal with animals, those who treat them well, and truly understand them... Then there are those who think that cruelty is the way to control an animal...

I prefer love, kindness, and patience... Animals are just honest, and straight forward with you... They know those people they can trust, and who truly are their friends, and they know when someone isn't an animal person... It's like when a dog that is friendly, suddenly growls for no apparent reason at someone... They just know who the good people are, and who the bad people are in this world...

Anyway, I went on the trail ride that day... But, I never asked to go again... I didn't want her to beat the tar out of that horse again, just to saddle her up... Even if the same situation didn't happen again. I wasn't going to risk having that poor mare beaten...

I really do have a rage well up inside me, whenever I see someone being cruel to any animal... I almost exploded on one of my former bosses at the Dairy Farm... He was one of the owners... Because of his own mistake one day, he took it out on the cows, literally physically beating them, and raging at them, even though they had done nothing, besides the fact that they shouldn't have been beaten in the first place... I saw this out the barn window... I wanted to run down to the corral, and scream at him, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING, STOP'!!!!... But, again here was a situation that I was at their mercy, because I was their employee...

I swear my blood pressure went through the roof... After work I went out and tried to give some comfort to the cows he had beaten... Just so they would realize that not all humans were cruel, and to be feared... I hated that man after that event... I avoided him as much as possible, and rarely spoke to him after that... Before this happened I liked the guy. But, after this happened I hated him... Unfortunately he turned out to be an abusive man with people as well... He made a comment to me one day, that I was about to walk out the door, and quit... But, his brother talked me out of it... He was verbally abusive to his own kids too, when they would come down to the barn sometimes to help out (usually when someone went on vacation)...

People like that don't deserve to exist.. How any human being can be cruel to animals is beyond me... WE, are the ones who bring them into our lives, and WE are the ones who take on that responsibility... It is a choice... If you can't deal with animals, then don't get them... Then again there are people who are cruel to their own children as well... At least these days though, if you beat your kids you will hopefully go to jail for a long time... What bothers me is, that the animals can't speak for themselves, and there isn't anyone around to protect them from that cruelty...


What happened to your stud colt?... I may have missed you mentioning him...

I saw that race with Barbaro, and it ripped my heart out to see that horse get injured, and eventually be euthanized... Like years ago when that famous Filly "Ruffian" had her match race...

I think they are over breeding these race horses, allowing for legs that are just to thin, and to fragile... Several horses have been euthanized during, and since Barbaro's passing... It's just cruel... It turned me away from horse racing...

Well, I'll look forward to more of your photos, and any more recent ones of your new colt... He is adorable... :wink:

[RedRaven]

Found this article on line about horse behavior...

This explains why Stallions kill foals... Not sure if it is the only explanation, but, it was all I could find for now, online...

Breeding ... In addition to the flight or fight behavior of horses, the breeding behaviors come in second to the regulatory behavior. All mutual groomings, play, fighting among the herd members - all thee behaviors arise from the horse's instinctual need to survive as a species. Every behavior has an innuendo that is clearly understood by another equine whether it be threatening or friendly. It is important that humans who keep horses understand these behaviors especially when working around and with an uncut stallion. The stallion lives for one reason only ... to breed and carry on the species. So strong is this instinct that the stallion will kill his own get if he perceives the foal is a threat to the survival of his herd. It is viewed by humans as a vicious, violent behavior when it is actually simply a behavior displaying the need for "survival of the fittest". A foal that is sick or injured will hold the herd back in the face of threats thus putting the entire herd at risk. The stallion instinctually cannot allow this to happen.

Though this article explains the behavior, it leaves me with the question, why didn't the band stallion that sired the foal, kill his own foal, instead of ignoring it?... The program in some respects leaves you with more questions, than answers... :?

[shyykatt]

Well, that foal was sick from birth, and 'Looking Glass' knew it; he basically put the foal out of its misery; seems harsh to us, but in nature that was the best thing for that foal.

Some people simply just dont know better when it comes to animals; they think 'I have 5 acres, I'll get a horse". I get customers like that calling me all the time; they thought it would be so simple.....throw it some food, let it eat snow in the winter, and maybe ride it once in a while. Then there are those who DO know better but chose to be cruel- I've seen a lot of that too.

"Blake" was the colt that died from bleeding-out (a fungal infection in his sinuses). Our baby-colt right now, "Edge", hurt himself yesterday- hes now lame on his right foreleg, I have no idea why; I seen him fall (which is normal for him lol) but he must have pulled a ligament or something, poor little guy. I've been massaging his leg gently, I'm sure he will be ok.

[RedRaven]

Well, that foal was sick from birth, and 'Looking Glass' knew it; he basically put the foal out of its misery; seems harsh to us, but in nature that was the best thing for that foal.

Some people simply just dont know better when it comes to animals; they think 'I have 5 acres, I'll get a horse". I get customers like that calling me all the time; they thought it would be so simple.....throw it some food, let it eat snow in the winter, and maybe ride it once in a while. Then there are those who DO know better but chose to be cruel- I've seen a lot of that too.

"Blake" was the colt that died from bleeding-out (a fungal infection in his sinuses). Our baby-colt right now, "Edge", hurt himself yesterday- hes now lame on his right foreleg, I have no idea why; I seen him fall (which is normal for him lol) but he must have pulled a ligament or something, poor little guy. I've been massaging his leg gently, I'm sure he will be ok.

Awww, the poor little guy... Well, I hope he'll be o.k., and back to romping around again soon. Hopefully he'll romp around a little more gently next time... :wink:

Yeah, it's sad that people just don't realize all that is required of them when they get a horse, or any other pet...

Ah, now I recall you mentioning that stud colt, so sorry that had to happen, I know how painful it is to lose an animal you care deeply about...

Hopefully your new colt Edge will be back to his old self, in no time... Maybe "Edge" isn't such a good name for him after all... He seems to be living on the "edge", trying to be a little dare devil... :wink:

Well, I'm sure he'll be fine, he's got you to care for him...

[shyykatt]

lol; yeah, hes much more careful now when hes tearin' around the paddock; not limping as bad anymore either. Wanted to tell ya that I am gonna try n' take a pic of that bull I was tellin you about; he is still there and I have to go get hay tonight or tomorrow night- his name is "Junior"

[RedRaven]

Well, I'll look forward to seeing his photo... Do you know what breed of Cattle "Junior" is?...

Glad to hear that "Edge" is doing better today...

You'll never guess what's going to be on television!...

I just saw a commercial that the story of "Ruffian", is going to be on television this weekend... The famous filly that lost her life, in a match race with Foolish Pleasure in 1975 at the Belmont race track, when she shattered her right front ankle...

It will be airing at 9 PM, this Saturday night, on ABC...

I watched that race, and it broke my heart... I loved that horse, she was big, powerful, and considered a superstar in horse racing... She was the fastest female race horse to ever race...

It is amazing to think that her last race was 32 years ago... I was so angry when they had to put her down that same day... She is buried at the New York Belmont Race Track... I was only 13 yrs. old when she had her last race...

It should be an interesting story, even though we already know how it ends...

Well, I'll be looking for those photos of your hay suppliers Bull...

[shyykatt]

Here he is! (the guy thought I was a bit goofy wanting to take pix of his steer! ) I guess he has one more week before... :shock: He took grass from my hand too, which isnt like him b/c he is very spooky. :wink:

[shyykatt]

ok, one more...

[Jackrabbit379]

Is he a Holstein?
Is it me, or are Holstein bulls, kinda crazy?

[RedRaven]

Is he a Bull, or a Steer?... You mentioned before that he was a bull, but now your saying he's a Steer?... You can't tell from the photo, if you know what I mean... Is he intact?...

You can tell a bull from a steer in another way too... This photo it's tough to tell... But, Bulls tend to be more muscular, and stocky around the neck, and shoulders, compared to a Steer... Can't tell very well from this photo, considering he's mostly black as well... :wink:

Well Shyykatt, he looks like he's part Holstein anyway... Looks like two different animals in those two photos, by the shape, and angle of those horns... :?

You can tell a bull from a cow by the shape of their heads... Cows, should have what they call a more feminine shape to their head, more angular. The bulls have a more stocky, square shape to their head...

Well, at least you'll have a photo to remember him by... :sad: :wink:

You said, he was a little spooky, I'll take that as you mean he just doesn't come up to people, and stays away from them... Well, it depends on how he is raised, and treated... If he's handled a lot or, is used to having people around, he'll be more apt to be friendly. If he's not, or has been taught to keep away from people, he'll be stand offish, or even sometimes nervous around people...

That's why when I worked cattle, it was very important to make sure you worked with the bulls, as much as the cows... When I was around the bulls, it was important to me to make them friendly...

You don't want to be out in a pasture with bulls around, and not have them friendly, or at least accept your presence. Bulls in a pasture of cows only have one thing on their mind, and when you enter their territory (sort of speak), you had better hope that bull coming your way is friendly... :wink: If they don't like you, they can run you down pretty quick... :wink: Usually though they will warn you by lowering their heads near the ground, pawing the ground, and bellowing at you... You just need to be smart enough to know how to read them, and stand your ground... Most times they are bluffing, but, you never turn away from them... Let them turn away from you... :wink:

The people I worked with at the farm, and the owners didn't want freindly bulls. I had to convince them they would be much better off if they were freindly... It took a little time, and showing them why, to convince them otherwise... But, eventually they realized the benefit of having friendly bulls... First you can't sell a dangerous, or mean bull to any farmer. Second you don't want a mean bull chasing you down in a pasture. Third if you have to treat the animal, or load him up for transport, it is much easier if the bull is friendly, or should I say gentled, so you can handle them...

My friend told me when I first started working the farm, to stay away from the bulls, and keep an eye on them when you were out in the pasture... While there are some breeds that by nature are more aggressive bulls, like Jersey's... I told him if you don't treat them with kindness, and respect, then you SHOULD keep an eye on them, and watch your back...

I made it a point that every bull that was brought to the farm, would be gentled, if they weren't already...

Everyone on the farm called me the "Cattle Whisperer"...

But, it was true, and changing the attitudes of the owners, and workers took more time than it did to gentle the bulls... But, they did come around eventually, and they actually sold more bulls that way...

Some farmers are just raised to believe what previous generations have taught them, or what they've learned from other farmers... But, frankly, if you treat an animal with respect, and kindness, they usually will do what you ask of them... If you fear them, or are cruel to them, your asking for trouble, and you will eventually get hurt by that animal... Doesn't really matter if it's a bull, a dog, a horse, animals will pay you back given the chance, if you've been cruel to them... They are not stupid, that's for sure...

Well, thanks for the photos. It was very nice of you to take them...

[shyykatt]

Yes, hes a Holstien; and he became a steer last fall I guess, and he is 2 1/2 years old. He isnt friendly b/c they raised him to be 'food', and the guy doesnt milk or breed cattle anymore, this steer is the last of about 9 cattle he has left, they too will probably be sold for meat when they are big enough. I just thought he was kinda cool looking- the guy said if he was staying in the business he would likely have kept him a bull.

[Jackrabbit379]

Yes, hes a Holstien; and he became a steer last fall I guess, and he is 2 1/2 years old. He isnt friendly b/c they raised him to be 'food', and the guy doesnt milk or breed cattle anymore, this steer is the last of about 9 cattle he has left, they too will probably be sold for meat when they are big enough. I just thought he was kinda cool looking- the guy said if he was staying in the business he would likely have kept him a bull.

Well, he would have made some decent money, selling him to a dairy for a sire. Holstein cattle dont exactly have the high quality beef as Angus, or Hereford. :P

[Watcher]

skycatt,

my wife traines horses in her spare time. we actually have a little business doing it. she trains roughly 4-6 horses thru the summer. Teaches by the "Clinton Anderson" techniques. We're out in East Texas...so she tends to fill up her schedule pretty quick with the other trainers out here...she spots them a percentage when they send someone to her.

We've got 14 acres, 5 horses and too many cats that hang out in the barn...however, haven't seen a single mouse in a looooong time!

Anyway, hope all goes well with the horses!

-Watcher

[RedRaven]

Yes, hes a Holstien; and he became a steer last fall I guess, and he is 2 1/2 years old. He isnt friendly b/c they raised him to be 'food', and the guy doesnt milk or breed cattle anymore, this steer is the last of about 9 cattle he has left, they too will probably be sold for meat when they are big enough. I just thought he was kinda cool looking- the guy said if he was staying in the business he would likely have kept him a bull.

I figured when you said he was a steer, that he was going for beef... Unless he has some quality milkers, your right, they will all be sold at auction for beef... If you want to see some cool looking cattle, I could show you photos of some my friend raises... But, I don't have them on my computer... I'll see if I can find similar ones on line, and post them... :wink:

Jackrabbit

Well, he would have made some decent money, selling him to a dairy for a sire. Holstein cattle dont exactly have the high quality beef as Angus, or Hereford.

Jackrabbit, unfortunately, a lot of commercial Dairy's are using AI (artificial insemination), to breed their Holstein dairy cows... If a farm does use a bull, they can easily buy a commercial grade bull for $1,000.00... That was the going price, when I worked the farm... There are a lot of bulls out there that can be bought. So, unless this bull was high quality, registered purebred, there wouldn't be the demand for him, you might think... It' just the nature of the business...

A bred heifer back then sold for on average $2,500.00... A good experienced milker could easily go for more money...

One thing you have to remember is that an average dairy cow is in use for 4 to 6 years, and to be a dairy cow she obviously has to produce a calf... Now imagine the number of cows on just one farm, and multiply the number of calves that are produced by those cows in their milking lives... You talking 4 to 6 calves per cow. If you have a herd of say 400 milking cows, then consider the number of calves produced... The numbers are high if all the calves survived... Your looking at 1600 to 2400 calves produced by just that one herd, in either a 4 yr., or 6 yr. period... Now imagine the thousands of Dairy farms out there, and all the cattle that are being produced... :shock:

This is why first of all only the heifer calves are kept by dairy's as replacement stock, and all the bull calves go to auction. Either to become veal right away (newborns are called "bob veal"), or be raised as veal calves, or go on to be raised as steer for meat slaughter... If a farm uses a bull, and has a purebred herd, using registered purebred genetics they could easily raise their own replacement bull... There just isn't the demand for bulls, and for a dairy cattle dealer the money is with the heifers, and cows...

That is why some farmers don't spend the time, or money on medications when newborn calves get ill... Sometimes they just let them die, because they are considered a by-product of the industry, and if it's not a quality calf, that they won't make any money on, they will let them die (sometimes by starvation as well)... I think it is cruel, and inhumane, and shouldn't be allowed by law. But, you have to remember the old business motto, of supply, and demand. If you have more cattle, then is needed, the value, and price drops...

One thing to remember as well, even though Angus, and Hereford are raised, and used for human meat comsumption. You also have the pet industry that also uses beef... I'm sure much of the excess cattle that are not quality animals for human consumption, go to the pet industry... Your cat, and dog, could be eating the last Holstein to go to slaughter... But, if a Holstien is beef quality it will go into the human consumption market as well... Look in your local grocery store, Angus, is being sold as a specialty beef product. The marketing being used now all says how special Angus beef is, and if you look at the price, it is expensive... Your average beef in your grocery store, could have come from any breed of cattle... Think about what beef is used for hamburgers, or your favorite fast food burger place... As long as it is quality enough for human consumption, there it will end up.

If you think things are bad in the cattle industry, don't even get me started on what happens to a lot of unwanted horses in this country... If they are not fortunate enough to find a home to live out their lives. Then they too are being sold at auction, and shipped off to slaughter houses as well... :x :sad:

If a domestic animal can be used as meat, it lives it's life in a delicate balance of survival at the hand of mankind...

[RedRaven]

Saturday 6/9/07...

Now, if you want to talk horses, today was an ironic day... The story of "Ruffian", the famous filly that lost her life in a match race with "Foolish Pleasure" on July, 6, 1975, was on television this evening... I watched it even though I had seen her original match race back then, and it broke my heart, and turned me against professional horse racing... I noticed that Ruffian's spot of white on her forehead always looked like the number 7 to me... Unfortunately the number wasn't lucky for her... It was noted in news day, that it took 5 geldings to portray "Ruffian", in the movie...

PHOTOS REMOVED BY ME...

What was ironic was that on the same day her story was to air, that another filly by the name of "Rags to Riches", was racing as the only filly in a line up of 7 horses, at the same race track Belmont park, that Ruffian had her last race, all those many years ago... She wore the number 7 as well...

Though I did not watch the race today, it turns out that the filly won the race, beating the champion colt by the name of "Curlin", in a neck, and neck race...

PHOTOS REMOVED BY ME...

It was as though the spirit of Ruffian lived again for just a moment today, and her spirit guided Rags to Riches over the finish line, to win. Rags being the only filly in the race, to beat the colts (in 102 yrs.), at Belmont Park where Ruffian herself is buried near the flag pole there(with her nose facing the direction of the finish line)...

Ruffian is the only race horse to be buried at any race track...

It somehow is almost magical, or spiritual however you wish to look at it... It was though Rags was finishing the match race, that Ruffian never got the chance too...

I heard on the news that the filly stumbled out of the gate, but, regained her composure, to go on and beat Curlin... It sent chills down my spine...

I had just watched the story of Ruffian tonight, and crying through much of it, when I heard the news that this filly Rags to Riches had won the Belmont Stakes... It just made me shed another tear, and pulled at my heart with joy...

It was like FINALLY a female, a filly had beaten the boys, on equal ground, and brought a sense of pride to females everywhere... 8)

I happened to look up Ruffian on the internet tonight, and read the tragedy that surrounded her... Both her Dam; "Shenanigans", and her Sire; "Reviewer", died within 2 months of each other... It was ironic as well that her Dam, and sire died on the same day a month apart... Shenanigans was put down on May 21, 1977, cause broken legs, and Reviewer was also put down June 21, 1977, cause broken leg.

I happen to notice that Ruffian was fatally injured on 7/6/75... If you add 7, and 6 you get 13... Ruffians entire racing career lasted only 13 months... If your someone who has any belief in the bad luck of the number 13, then you may have been a little un-nerved by it. Ruffian, and both her parents all passed from leg injuries...

As a horse lover, and hearing that this filly won today at Belmont Park, I was just glad she won, beat the boys, and didn't suffer the same fate as Ruffian, and did Ruffian proud... :wink:

[RedRaven]

I just thought he was kinda cool looking- the guy said if he was staying in the business he would likely have kept him a bull.

ShyyKatt,

Here are just a few examples of a breed of cattle my friend raises... He raises a variety of cattle, but this breed can produce some striking colors, and markings... They are called Randall's Lineback Cattle... A rare breed, that was developed in Vermont... Oldest cattle breed in the New England area...

Here are just a few examples I found online...

Now here is a BULL!!!... :shock: Notice how muscular he is around the neck, and shoulders... That's how you can tell a bull, from a steer, without peeking underneath...

PHOTOS REMOVED BY ME...

This next photo is a cow, and calf...

PHOTOS REMOVED BY ME...

This last photo is a cow, with a "red" colored calf... They can come in different colors, shading, and variety of markings... But, traditionally, they came in the color black... They are used for both milk, and beef, and of course they are named "Lineback", because they always have that white stripe down their back, no matter the color that goes with it... :wink:

PHOTOS REMOVED BY ME...

Pretty cool, huh... :wink: 8)