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  #21  
Old 08-11-2008, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawlco
I believe that if you study the Pickens plan that you will find he is not opposed to drilling, but he thinks that drilling alone is not enough, we need wind power too. We need to supplement all the oil and natural gas we can drill for domestically with the alternatives.
Yes, Boone states in the CNBC interview that we have to drill, but that we just won't be able to meet the demand. Apparently the left grabbed that sound bite that you cannot drill your way out. It is true, but it doesn't mean you don't drill and get at all the resources we have.

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Old 08-11-2008, 06:24 PM
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It's so frustrating when I hear people say "We can't drill our way out of this problem." It makes you want to slap them, especially the politicians. You'd think they'd be educated enough to understand basic supply and demand. It's not hard. Yes we need alternatives but right now our lives and economy rely on oil. DUH!

I posted this link in another part of the forum but I'll post it here for anyone that missed it. It's some great reading.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/series7.aspx
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  #23  
Old 08-11-2008, 09:57 PM
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For the current situation, we CAN drill our way out. That's not the problem. The problem is that, NOW, WE DRILL OUR WAY OUT, BUT THE PROBLEM COMES UP AGAIN IN ANOTHER 30 TO 40 YEARS, or less. But, the next time it comes up, we've already tapped the max, and drilling is no longer a possiibility. By then, we had better have something else we can rely on. Also, at some point, we are going to RUN OUT OF OIL. Wells will go dry, and there will be no more recources to tap for more. The source of all the oil is NOT INFINITE. And, wind is a "CRUTCH". Not the answer. Ocean currents are more reliable, but still a crutch. If geothermal were to really become popular, it could have the effect of cooling the earth's core (which might cure global warming).
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Old 08-11-2008, 11:01 PM
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Windwalker, I would like to know how you can drill your way out of oil dependence today? I am pretending I am from MO...

We import over 60% of our oil today. Our current oil production has been in decline since the 70's. I would like to hear how we makeup that difference to become oil independent and where did the number 30 or 40 years comes from? The numbers that are being published there is no way in hades we are coming up with that kind of oil in our wildest dreams.

Also keep in mind historical trends have shown roughly a 2-3% increase in demand per year so whatever oil we are talking about tapping needs to take into consideration the demand increase as well.

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Old 08-12-2008, 03:08 AM
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Wow...for just a second there, I thought T. Boone might have had a "falling out" with the Bushes. But...seeing as no more Bushes are gonna be in the White House, it looks like he has just swapped his saddle over to a new horse, so that the $$$$$$ keep on rolling in.

"Hedging" his bet's, so to speak.

Why doesn't he explain how many "Wind Turbines" it's going to take, to replace one coal fired power plant? Or even one "Gas" fired power plant?? (the typical gas fired power plant is 80 to 175 megawatts, compared to the standard coal fired power plant at 750 to 1350 mega watts) Oh yeah...Mesa Petroleum...it's primary focus for development in the late 70's and throughout the 80's.......was natural gas.

Wind is a nice pretty picture for "Green" America...but it is no way or no how the answer to our problem. Nuclear would be a big help. Not going to happen because nuclear isn't "green".

Drilling off the coasts is not a short term solution for our energy problems, but then, neither is "Wind" for "Electric", or natural gas for "Automotive".

Drilling off the coast's would however, be a good long term solution. Most of the "Oil" majors have the old seismic data from the 70's and early 80's at hand. Witht the up dated technology that is available, they can quickly "update" that old data, and spot drillships in "Viable" production areas all along both the Atlantic and Pacific coasts, as well as Florida's Gulf coast.

Soon, Chevron, BP and Shell, will be announcing test results on new "Finds" in the DeepWater GOM. My friend whom knows about those results, say's "Their gonna be Gigantic", when announced.

My only problem with offshore drilling is....Foreign Oil Companies having the majority of the leases...thus the majority of the profits...which they take to their home countries for investment...not into ours. And before anyone explains about the "investment" those companies made in finding "New Oil" offshore....the investment is paid back in triplicate, before a well is declared "profitable". Wages, development..all are paid before "profit" is declared.

Again...I don't have a gripe against an oil company making a profit. I do have a gripe, when those profits are taken overseas...especially to Venezuala.
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  #26  
Old 08-12-2008, 03:25 AM
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Stan,

That one is pretty easy to answer on how many wind generators to replace one coal fired plan... I just hopped out to the GE Wind division and looked at their large wind platforms:

http://www.gepower.com/prod_serv/pro...s/en/index.htm
GE's come in:
1.5 mw
2.5 mw
3.6 mw

And the technology is fast moving and these things are producing more and more power in a pretty short time frame. Considering the size of the space they are talking about in the great plains to put these there isn't a problem with space to place them. It now becomes the race for the most competitive products and driving these costs down further. GE gets and arm and a leg for these and has already sold their entire production going into 2010.

I am not sure why we want to replace coal fired plants however. It makes sense to move natural gas into a transportation fuel, and try to replace that natural gas used in the power plants with other available resources. I personally have no problem with coal fired plants, just put the scrubbers on them so that the emissions are clean. There is no such thing as clean coal, but carbon dioxide is not a pollutant.

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Old 08-12-2008, 03:28 AM
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It is a shame that congress allowed the major oil companies to merge. I don't know about Chevron, but Shell and BP are both foreign owned. It seems to me as though it is a matter of national security to keep U.S. oil companies domestically owned. While these two foreign oil companies are owned by what we consider friendly countries, they are still foreign with their own interests.
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:32 AM
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I hate to say it, but international companies have no "Nationality". So they don't have any interest, but their own self interests. How we address this in a free market I don't have a clue without laying down rules that are protectionist. Thoughts?

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Old 08-12-2008, 03:53 AM
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The oil companies don't operate in a free market system. OPEC is a monopoly. They basically control the world's oil production and pricing. When the U.S. Congress allow the merger or acquisition of the major oil companies to foreign oil companies, they basically gave them the keys to the safe. Prices stay low when there is competition. When you have little or no competition, prices go out of control. The best way to push oil prices down and keep them low is through competition. The major oil mergers should be reversed by congress and a push for alternative energy sources and drilling should ensue immediately. By encouraging more competition we will lower prices and maintain a free market system. There is nothing more free than competition.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMAN
It is a shame that congress allowed the major oil companies to merge. I don't know about Chevron, but Shell and BP are both foreign owned. It seems to me as though it is a matter of national security to keep U.S. oil companies domestically owned. While these two foreign oil companies are owned by what we consider friendly countries, they are still foreign with their own interests.
As far as "Major" oil companies go, Chevron, ExxonMobil, and ConocoPhillips are the "major" American oil companies. There are also the smaller ones. Sunoco, Hess, Sinclair, Marathon. All those companies drill for oil and natural gas. All market petroleum products under their "Logo". Marathon bought Pilot a couple years ago, and they just bought "Wingfoot" tire centers from Goodyear in the last few weeks.
Then you have the guy's that drill for oil and natural gas, but don't deal in marketing. Occidental Petroleum, Anadarko Petroleum, Chesapeke Energy, Williams Energy, and dozens of smaller fish.

The largest leaseholders out in the Gulf of Mexico right now though, in terms of DeepWater production, aren't our "Majors", they are BP, Shell, BHP-Billiton, TotalFina, SaudiAramco, CITGO, and now Italy and Brazil are buying in.

Longsnowsm wrote

Quote:
Stan,

That one is pretty easy to answer on how many wind generators to replace one coal fired plan... I just hopped out to the GE Wind division and looked at their large wind platforms:

http://www.gepower.com/prod_serv/pro...s/en/index.htm
GE's come in:
1.5 mw
2.5 mw
3.6 mw

And the technology is fast moving and these things are producing more and more power in a pretty short time frame. Considering the size of the space they are talking about in the great plains to put these there isn't a problem with space to place them. It now becomes the race for the most competitive products and driving these costs down further. GE gets and arm and a leg for these and has already sold their entire production going into 2010.

I am not sure why we want to replace coal fired plants however. It makes sense to move natural gas into a transportation fuel, and try to replace that natural gas used in the power plants with other available resources. I personally have no problem with coal fired plants, just put the scrubbers on them so that the emissions are clean. There is no such thing as clean coal, but carbon dioxide is not a pollutant.

Longsnowsm
You need to take a road trip. Go out to Palm Springs California, where the first commercial wind generators are still working. Most of the original generators were 30 and 40 kilo watt turbines. There are hundreds of them along I-10 between Banning and Palm Springs. Now, around them, are hundreds of the new turbines, the 2.5 and 3.6 mega-watt turbines. The entire area looks like one huge "Cluster ****" and is uglier now than before...and the new ones...the ones closest to the road...are leaking oil like sieves. I have a friend in Spokane WA. He works for one of the company's that services the turbines, and he travels all over the country, doing his job. It takes them weeks to service just one of the turbines...and they are not keeping up with construction.

How long before the "NIMBY's" close down the "Wind" farms, like they did nuclear plants??

Look at the hundreds of 1,000 + mega-watt coal fired power plants we have in operation nationwide. Then look at the hundreds of 80 to 150 mega-watt "Gas-fired" generators that were built the last 15 years. There are a handful of 400 to 550 mega-watt gas plants...less than 20.

These guy toteing "Wind" generation are looking for the fast buck....nothing else. They have no plans for servicing those generators. The turbines are far more labor intensive than is a 1500 mega-watt coal fired plant.

Natural Gas power plants drove up the cost of natural gas. How much higher do you think it will go, if 30% of available natural gas went to supplying "Automotive" fuel?

How about Solar power? BP has a huge solar complex out in the Mojave Desert, north of Barstow CA. The problem there, is damage that the sun and wind cause to the collector panels.

There are home owners whom have invested in solar...but not enough to matter...and those that have solar...still rely on the "System" for the majority of their power supply.
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