Running the numbers for the prospective new truck driver...

[Justruckin]

I keep getting slammed for not painting a rosy picture regarding trucking and the newbies. The below needs to be said, as many of these schools and recruiters are feeding many of these green horns a line of bull in my book.

Go ahead and pick my numbers apart, I think that they are pretty honest and fair as to what is really going on out here right now in regards to freight and actual miles driven in a week. And yes, I know some are doing better than others, you have your dedicated lane and local gigs. I am not speaking to you guys, but the new guy thinking of getting into this racket expecting to make a financial killing in their first or second or even third year out here. I called Swift and spoke with a recruiter for the below numbers. The one number I messed with is the 2500 to 3000 mile a week to the truck. I don't know of many solo drivers out here getting those kinds of numbers with these big outfits and our current economic situation. So go ahead and dive in.

Let's break this down for the newbies, who are all in desperate need of work and a good paying job to pay the bills... Don't most of these trucking companies state that you will make $30,000 a year to start?

OK, you go to Swift driving academy, they still charge you for school ($3900) and lodging ($500). Out of your pay comes $67 a week for the first 6 months, it breaks down to $37 for school and $30 for lodging. Now at the end of your 6th month, the payment drops to $37 a week as by then you have paid off your school lodging costs. You will continue to pay the $37 a week for another 7 months. The school note is a 13 month contract.

We go through the 18 day school to get the CDL. The school costs $3900 + $500 for lodging.

Then we take our test to get the CDL.

We get the CDL, and wait for a trainer to become available. And from reading here on this site that is taking upwards of four months to get drivers going with the trainer. Each case will vary, but it is safe to say that you will still need to eat and pay bills in that time frame, be it one week or four months.

We get to the trainer, you guys get along, you stay out for 6 weeks, maybe longer depending on how you do. You get a flat salary of $450 a week. Which $67 a week is subtracted out of your pay for the school, and don't forget taxes. $450 - .27 in taxes = $328 - $67 for school = $261.00. Now subtract at least $100 for living expenses out of that in the form of an advance... We have a net pay of "roughly" $161.00 for the week.

All right, $161 for the week, say you are out 8 weeks, that works out to.... $1288.00 or $644 a month net pay, or $21.46 a day NET.

Now, we go solo, we start at Swift @ .26 a mile. Your first week out, you get 1000 miles, which is not unusual in this economy. You have just earned your first paycheck, $260.00

$260 - .27 for taxes = $190 - $67 for school = $123 - $100 advance for food which leaves you with $23.00 for a weeks worth of work. Now remember, we use real weeks in trucking on a 24 hour clock, which is 7 full days.

Let's break this down further, you just netted $23.00 for a week of work. Divide that by 7 = $3.28 a day for your labor.

Now you start getting some miles, you are now up to 1500 miles a week average for your first 6 months, not unusual out here in this economy. Let's do the math... We will use a four month time frame subtracting the two months for the training time that you were on salary.

Training pay, net for 2 months = $1288

Four months solo @ 1500 a week net average with a base of .29 a mile = $151.00 a week x 17 weeks = $2567.00 I spared you the deductions.

You have now been on the road for 6 months, with an average of 1500 miles for every week you have been out. You have a NET pay after all expenses of $3855.00 for 6 months of work. Or $148 a week or $21 a day.

Now lets say you make it 6 months on this pay, which moves up on a scale at Swift. At 6 months you are now making .32 a mile and are now averaging say 1800 miles a week. 1800 x .32 = $576 - .27 for taxes = $420 - school @ $37.00 = $383 - $100 advance = $283.00 a week net income.

Now, lets say you take no time off and work the remaining 26 weeks of the year. You will net $7358.00 for 26 weeks or $40 a day.

So let's add up your annual NET income for your entire first year. $1288 + $2567 + $7358 = $11,213.00

That averages out to a NET of $216 a week, or $31.00 a day. You get all of this, plus a roof over your head in an 8'x8' box to live in rent free with all of the junk food you can afford to eat. Every time you hit a truck stop, it will cost you roughly $10 to eat fast food or $15 for a sit down meal, that is roughly $25 a day to eat. Unless you have a fridge in your truck and shop at WalMart and eat out of a can or lunch meat. And then lets not forget showers. Showers are around $10 a pop, and if you aren't running, you ain't buying fuel so no free showers. Say you take 3 a week out of your own pocket and skip a day or two. Let's do some more math... Let's say you can live on $20 a day for food, that works out to $140 a week and then throw in 3 showers at $30 because you don't like wandering around feeling and smelling like a pig. That is $170 a week right there and trust me, you are not getting much for that $20 a day in food.

Now run the numbers again, can you live on $100 a week out here? And what if you smoke? Add that to that $170 figure. And remember, you can only live on .99 hot dogs for a very short period of time before you get to the point you gag when see the rotisserie. And if you think you will fast food it, I was in Dallas TX a few months ago, it was $7.90 for a Whopper and near $10 for the meal deal. Salads were running $7 with out a drink.

I could do this all day long, I have done this stuff, and the numbers do not lie, math is math. And math is the main reason I sold all of my equipment and hung it up. I got lucky, as most of my friends have lost their homes and families. Trucking today is like Amway.

Hey, I just hate seeing people get into this racket without knowing what they are truly in for. This is not some fun and games occupation to just jump into where you make lots of money, especially if you have bills and responsibilities. It took me near ten years before I actually started to earn what I would consider a living wage. But I did not have anything when I got into this racket, I was young, recently divorced, lost everything and needed a roof and a few squares a day. Trucking fit the bill and allowed me to simply survive. I remember many times calling home and asking for money from my parents just so I could eat.

With 20 years under my belt and a squeaky clean record I can honestly tell all of you, I could not afford to be a company driver at these wages. Wages that have not gone up in over thirty years.

[Mackman]

Great post

[jd112488]

justtruckin..you seem bitter? if you are "out of this racket" why do you call yourself justtruckin, you should be icouldntahndlemycompanysoifeeleveryoneelsewillfail aswell. but that is neither here nor there. i personally did not take the time that you did to call the cheapest paying new driver hireing company there is. i think your numbers may be a bit skewed. 1000 mile and 1500 mile. highly unlikely..ask kev..he is a swifty. also some poeple can very easily live on less than 100 bucks a week. but like i said i do not ahe the desire to call a recruiter and waste their time by telling them i need training just to get some numbers. your bitter and done with trucking..get over it dude. go on with your life and quit trying to bring everyone else down with you. it is like you said on another thread in which you were bashing driving. you had to start driving outta neccisity...alot of people are in the same boat now. a paycheck is better than no paycheck..right??

[Justruckin]

Yes, a paycheck is better than no paycheck. Am I bitter in regards to trucking, no. Are my numbers off, maybe, maybe not, every case is different. I just laid these out as a baseline using conversations with drivers that I do know and talking to other trucking company owners. Just because I got out of trucking does not mean that I have cut off all contact to many people that I consider my friends that are still active in the industry.

My point for posting the above is to at least make people think. Have you ever done anything that you never thought through or took the time to ask questions about when you were in a vulnerable position? It looked like the right thing to do at the time, an opportunity? And on edit: How do you even know what the right questions are to ask? Most people getting into trucking have no idea as to what they are getting into. I did it out of desperation, but had nothing to lose. I went from 3 figures to 6 figures, but it took a good thirteen years to reach that point when I could pay cash for a $17,000 truck.

Allot of people are in a bad spot right now, and there are many outfits out there taking advantage of many of these people. Is it my business, nope. And honestly, anyone getting into this business should at least look at the numbers. Now the numbers I used are pretty close to reality for many new guys out here. Go ahead and juice them up on the miles, but I think I was pretty fair, as I used 52 weeks as my baseline for pay. And you cannot tell me you work a solid 52 weeks out here without ever stopping.

From the guys I have spoken with over the last few weeks, 1800 miles is about average for my friends. Yes, some weeks they may get 2500 miles in, but the next week they only bag 1200 on a bunch of short hoppers. And if you do work for a big company you do know that they give to much times to make their deliveries. A two day run can easily extend to four days. That is almost a given out here with the new rules that are coming and just the fact that there is not that much freight out here to move.

[Malaki86]

I drive 5 days a week. Occasionally I'll drive 6. On a VERY rare occasion (maybe 3-4x per year) I'll drive 7 days a week. I bring home, after taxes & insurance, an average of $1,500 every 2 weeks. And, yes, I'm a company driver. Ya - I can live on $750 per week very comfortably.

[Mr. Ford95]

I drive 5 days a week. Occasionally I'll drive 6. On a VERY rare occasion (maybe 3-4x per year) I'll drive 7 days a week. I bring home, after taxes & insurance, an average of $1,500 every 2 weeks. And, yes, I'm a company driver. Ya - I can live on $750 per week very comfortably.

Heck, I'm local and bring home less than that after taxes and all and I'm living just fine. My wife works but take her paycheck and the additional bills of hers out of the picture and I can still live just fine at $555 a week after taxes. Then again, my "living fine" is probably different than others.

[jd112488]

ok..your numbers are still off in my humble opinion. i doubt the consistent 6 months at 1000 miles and the 6 months at 1500 miles. you may be right and i may be wrong. but i agree with you on one point. people entering this field need to do there research!!! calling one company is not research. call several companies..at least 8. talk to several drivers..20. take what they say, take that home and think on it for at least a week. and remember this one fact. happy people are more likely to be quiet. unhappy people are easy to find cause they are always going on about how miserable they are and how it is someone elses fault that they are miserable. i would venture to guess for every good comment on trucking you find you will hear 10 unhappy comments on trucking.

here is mine. did my starter company experience go as i planned. no. i had a newborn at home and had never been gone like that before. does that mean that trucking sucked? no..just that i admittedly was not prepared. i took a couple local jobs and ended up making less than i did otr. i then found my current job and stuck with it. i love my job!!! is it always like running through a field of roses? nope..but i am happy and make good money that fits my families lifestyle. it may not be as much as some people make and it may be more than some make. if this is something you wanna do give it a shot...you may in two or three years find the job you love. just the same as justtruckin took the job out of desperation and ended up doing it for over twenty years with a squeaky clean record...so it must not be as bad as he says.

[millersod215]

Justtruckin, you've got too much time on your hands, your's is the kind of post I get 1 paragraph in to and give up on it, the same old blah blah blah that's been posted a million times. Whether what you say is viable or not, people are still going to do what they're going to do, you and others need to stop trying to be "Trucking God", let a man, and or a woman experience the highs and lows of driving, whatever they may be. I've seen the good the bad and the ugly and it has made me a stronger man, with a wiser head on my shoulders. So if you covered good points towards the end of your rant, let me apologize for not realizing it, seeing as how I didn't make it that far, but doesn't there need to come a time where these needless posts finally go away, and lets just all congratulate one another for having a job whatever it may be in these economic times. Just my 2 cents...........

[P0rk Ch0p]

I've looked over everything, and since I didn't go to any companies school, i should be OK there.

I am in debt for my schooling, but Tuition Reimbursement should cover that.

I am not expecting to get rich, But I am a single not married no kids 23 yrs old.

I should be just fine just starting out OTR.

[bigtruckman]

only thing i can say for a new driver is to be patient get six months otr with whatever company your with then get on a regional or dedicated board that why your miles will be consistent 2500-3200 every week make sure you pickup and deliver on time... but the main thing i would say is NEVER EVER SIGN A LEASE(TRUCK) WITH THE COMPANY....:thumbsdown: other than that have fun, hold on and enjoy the view!!!:thumbsup:

[cdswans]

Your post will serve as an excellent primer to people who don't routinely succeed at things and, let's face it, this business attracts more than a fair share of failures.

2000 people starting out at Walmart are going to make the same amount of money for the first year or two unless they get promoted, quit or get fired. If they've been promised 30k, it's going to be 30k. 2000 people taking the Swift route aren't going to be promised anything. They will be told that 30k is the upside but it's a realistic, attainable income in the first full year of DRIVING, not schooling or training.

Then, reality kicks in. The majority of new recruits are not going to make the money or make it in this business for any number of reasons. Quick learners who are good drivers and like the work have a very real shot at making 30k happen, plus. Slow learners, rotten drivers and fence sitters are going to fail. It doesn't matter what company you start with. This is not an easy business, period. If you haven't been trained how to make the money or you can't or won't learn on your own, it doesn't matter how good a driver you think you are, this job is going to suck and you won't be long in it.

Your mileage numbers are way, way out of whack. I'm not saying absurdly low numbers don't happen but they're rare. In five years I can recall one 1200 mile week and that was this year, in the depths of the gloom and doom forecasts which otherwise seem to have escaped me.

Here's my advice to wannabes: Some of you are going to be killed or maimed and you definitely won't like that. A lot of you are not going to like the job and you'll walk away from it . . a lot poorer and a little wiser. A lot of you are morons and why you think this job will be your salvation is beyond me. Some of you will hate it but still hang on because you have nowhere else to go.* A few, and I mean very few, of you are going to like it, prosper in it and find yourselves asking why you didn't get into it sooner.

*And every nickle you don't blow on fast food will be spent on tweeked CBs and you won't hesitate for a second to let the world know just how miserable you are.

[GMAN]

I have no idea of how many miles most of these training carriers are getting right now. However, in normal economic times you should average about 2,500 miles per week for the year. During slow times your miles may drop between 1,800-2,200. When freight is moving better then you could drive somewhere between 2,700-3,200 miles per week. Occasionally your miles could be better but I would not count on it during the slow economy. Your miles can vary from week to week but should have a decent average. One reason some don't do well in this business is their work ethic. If you do your job to the best of your ability then you should be able to earn a good living. If you want to find out about a carrier you should speak with those currently running for the company with which you are interested in working. They are your best source of current information. Ask about pay and miles. Make a list of questions that you would like to have answered. I would not rely on a recruiter if you want to have good information on a carrier. Other drivers are your best source of information.

[Joey Shabadoo]

It is what it is:
Long, lonely days/nights.
No friends, family, or social life whatsoever.
Poor diet from sitting on your ***** all day.
Drive 1000 miles, paid for 900.
Lots of hurry-up and unpaid waiting around.
Hometime a roll of the dice.
No overtime after 8/40 hours.
Nights, weekends, holidays spent in the big truck.
Top 10 most dangerous US occupation.
Worthless health bennies with high co-pays.
Too many freebies performed/expected of you.

The turnover rates are high in this biz for a reason:
It's because the money earned is chump-change for all the hours you put in the job, time away from home, and general BS you have to put up with.

Don't believe me?
Just look around the truckstop diner
Look at the guy sitting in the booth all by himself
Lonely, missing his friends and family
Listen to guys pissed off on the CB
They are bitter...everything is negative in their life.
Look around again in the truckstop, do u notice something?
Almost everyone is severely overweight, morbidly obese, edema of the legs, high blood pressure, sugar problems, etc.

It is for many a job of last resort.
Whereby if it weren't for the big truck, they'd be sleeping on a picnic table.
Then of course you have your ex-cons, parolees, towelheads, thieves, drifters, kooks, social misfits, 40-year old adolescents, people who don't speak English, people who don't shower, etc.
These folks tarnish the industry and give it the black mark that it enjoys today.

Like I said, it is what it is.
And that's all it ever will be...

[cdswans]

. . And that's all it ever will be...

You and justruckin should start a club.

[Flatbed]

It is what it is:
Long, lonely days/nights. Buy a cell phone and a laptop
No friends, family, or social life whatsoever. Only if you allow yourself to get out of touch
Poor diet from sitting on your ***** all day. Only if you allow it to happen, there is good food to be had if you aren't too lazy to do it
Drive 1000 miles, paid for 900. Find a better company
Lots of hurry-up and unpaid waiting around. Again, find a better company
Hometime a roll of the dice. Not where I work, I get home whenever I need, usually a day early
No overtime after 8/40 hours. What part of 'paid by the mile' did you not understand?
Nights, weekends, holidays spent in the big truck. Only if you choose to
Top 10 most dangerous US occupation. Dangerous to those who don't/can't/won't pay attention
Worthless health bennies with high co-pays. Once again, find a better company ... mine is paid, 100% for an excellent plan
Too many freebies performed/expected of you. And again, find a better company .. I get paid for everything I do

The turnover rates are high in this biz for a reason:
It's because the money earned is chump-change for all the hours you put in the job, time away from home, and general BS you have to put up with.

Turnover rates are high because people don't ask the right questions and get caught in bad situations with no backup. Add to that the general poor work ethic and 'gimmee' attitude and it isn't surprising

Don't believe me?
Just look around the truckstop diner
Look at the guy sitting in the booth all by himself
Lonely, missing his friends and family

Maybe he wants to sit alone and not listen to all the BS at the counter, I for one sit as far away from it as possible.

Listen to guys pissed off on the CB
They are bitter...everything is negative in their life.

Turn the stupid thing off, you'll be much happier

Look around again in the truckstop, do u notice something?
Almost everyone is severely overweight, morbidly obese, edema of the legs, high blood pressure, sugar problems, etc.

So be the exception to the standard, be positive and make a change, set a good example instead of bitching about it

It is for many a job of last resort.
Whereby if it weren't for the big truck, they'd be sleeping on a picnic table.
Then of course you have your ex-cons, parolees, towelheads, Have something against Sikh's?thieves, drifters, kooks, social misfits, 40-year old adolescents, people who don't speak English, people who don't shower, etc.
These folks tarnish the industry and give it the black mark that it enjoys today.

No, attitudes like yours are the tarnish.

Like I said, it is what it is.
And that's all it ever will be...

*****

[sptrucker]

holly crap :clap: that's what we need a positive attitude like that.:bow:

[Jackrabbit379]

I drive 5 days a week. Occasionally I'll drive 6. On a VERY rare occasion (maybe 3-4x per year) I'll drive 7 days a week. I bring home, after taxes & insurance, an average of $1,500 every 2 weeks. And, yes, I'm a company driver. Ya - I can live on $750 per week very comfortably.

Heck, I'm local and bring home less than that after taxes and all and I'm living just fine. My wife works but take her paycheck and the additional bills of hers out of the picture and I can still live just fine at $555 a week after taxes. Then again, my "living fine" is probably different than others.


I'm glad to hear yall say that. I've read some threads on here where some of the guys mention how much they make. Someone else would reply and say, "man, I couldn't live on that- etc etc". That made me think, "good grief, he wouldn't like my paychecks then." I take home around $550 a week, but with the insurance and benefits that Sysco offers, I'm thankful to be where I'm at. Sure, some have better paying driving jobs, but here in Wichita Falls, there isn't very many good jobs, with good insurance, benefits. My wife also works. We are on a budget, but we make a good living. I also do farm work, but that's just part-time. Those paychecks usually are enough to "fill the tank" on my pickup.
I'm not making doctor's wages, but I'm blessed, and thankful to be working in this bad economy.

[VPIDarkAngel]

only thing i can say for a new driver is to be patient get six months otr with whatever company your with then get on a regional or dedicated board that why your miles will be consistent 2500-3200 every week make sure you pickup and deliver on time... but the main thing i would say is NEVER EVER SIGN A LEASE(TRUCK) WITH THE COMPANY....:thumbsdown: other than that have fun, hold on and enjoy the view!!!:thumbsup:

AMEN! That's about what I did, except it only took me two months on 48-state before I got on a regional dedicated board, where I now average 1,500-2,000 miles per week. Granted, stop pay and unload pay make up for the lower mileage numbers.

I can't agree with you enough about the lease part... That's just a whole other can of worms.

[jonp]

I keep getting slammed for not painting a rosy picture regarding trucking and the newbies. The below needs to be said, as many of these schools and recruiters are feeding many of these green horns a line of bull in my book.

Go ahead and pick my numbers apart, I think that they are pretty honest and fair as to what is really going on out here right now in regards to freight and actual miles driven in a week. And yes, I know some are doing better than others, you have your dedicated lane and local gigs. I am not speaking to you guys, but the new guy thinking of getting into this racket expecting to make a financial killing in their first or second or even third year out here. I called Swift and spoke with a recruiter for the below numbers. The one number I messed with is the 2500 to 3000 mile a week to the truck. I don't know of many solo drivers out here getting those kinds of numbers with these big outfits and our current economic situation. So go ahead and dive in.

Let's break this down for the newbies, who are all in desperate need of work and a good paying job to pay the bills... Don't most of these trucking companies state that you will make $30,000 a year to start?

OK, you go to Swift driving academy, they still charge you for school ($3900) and lodging ($500). Out of your pay comes $67 a week for the first 6 months, it breaks down to $37 for school and $30 for lodging. Now at the end of your 6th month, the payment drops to $37 a week as by then you have paid off your school lodging costs. You will continue to pay the $37 a week for another 7 months. The school note is a 13 month contract.

We go through the 18 day school to get the CDL. The school costs $3900 + $500 for lodging.

Then we take our test to get the CDL.

We get the CDL, and wait for a trainer to become available. And from reading here on this site that is taking upwards of four months to get drivers going with the trainer. Each case will vary, but it is safe to say that you will still need to eat and pay bills in that time frame, be it one week or four months.

We get to the trainer, you guys get along, you stay out for 6 weeks, maybe longer depending on how you do. You get a flat salary of $450 a week. Which $67 a week is subtracted out of your pay for the school, and don't forget taxes. $450 - .27 in taxes = $328 - $67 for school = $261.00. Now subtract at least $100 for living expenses out of that in the form of an advance... We have a net pay of "roughly" $161.00 for the week.

All right, $161 for the week, say you are out 8 weeks, that works out to.... $1288.00 or $644 a month net pay, or $21.46 a day NET.

Now, we go solo, we start at Swift @ .26 a mile. Your first week out, you get 1000 miles, which is not unusual in this economy. You have just earned your first paycheck, $260.00

$260 - .27 for taxes = $190 - $67 for school = $123 - $100 advance for food which leaves you with $23.00 for a weeks worth of work. Now remember, we use real weeks in trucking on a 24 hour clock, which is 7 full days.

Let's break this down further, you just netted $23.00 for a week of work. Divide that by 7 = $3.28 a day for your labor.

Now you start getting some miles, you are now up to 1500 miles a week average for your first 6 months, not unusual out here in this economy. Let's do the math... We will use a four month time frame subtracting the two months for the training time that you were on salary.

Training pay, net for 2 months = $1288

Four months solo @ 1500 a week net average with a base of .29 a mile = $151.00 a week x 17 weeks = $2567.00 I spared you the deductions.

You have now been on the road for 6 months, with an average of 1500 miles for every week you have been out. You have a NET pay after all expenses of $3855.00 for 6 months of work. Or $148 a week or $21 a day.

Now lets say you make it 6 months on this pay, which moves up on a scale at Swift. At 6 months you are now making .32 a mile and are now averaging say 1800 miles a week. 1800 x .32 = $576 - .27 for taxes = $420 - school @ $37.00 = $383 - $100 advance = $283.00 a week net income.

Now, lets say you take no time off and work the remaining 26 weeks of the year. You will net $7358.00 for 26 weeks or $40 a day.

So let's add up your annual NET income for your entire first year. $1288 + $2567 + $7358 = $11,213.00

That averages out to a NET of $216 a week, or $31.00 a day. You get all of this, plus a roof over your head in an 8'x8' box to live in rent free with all of the junk food you can afford to eat. Every time you hit a truck stop, it will cost you roughly $10 to eat fast food or $15 for a sit down meal, that is roughly $25 a day to eat. Unless you have a fridge in your truck and shop at WalMart and eat out of a can or lunch meat. And then lets not forget showers. Showers are around $10 a pop, and if you aren't running, you ain't buying fuel so no free showers. Say you take 3 a week out of your own pocket and skip a day or two. Let's do some more math... Let's say you can live on $20 a day for food, that works out to $140 a week and then throw in 3 showers at $30 because you don't like wandering around feeling and smelling like a pig. That is $170 a week right there and trust me, you are not getting much for that $20 a day in food.

Now run the numbers again, can you live on $100 a week out here? And what if you smoke? Add that to that $170 figure. And remember, you can only live on .99 hot dogs for a very short period of time before you get to the point you gag when see the rotisserie. And if you think you will fast food it, I was in Dallas TX a few months ago, it was $7.90 for a Whopper and near $10 for the meal deal. Salads were running $7 with out a drink.

I could do this all day long, I have done this stuff, and the numbers do not lie, math is math. And math is the main reason I sold all of my equipment and hung it up. I got lucky, as most of my friends have lost their homes and families. Trucking today is like Amway.

Hey, I just hate seeing people get into this racket without knowing what they are truly in for. This is not some fun and games occupation to just jump into where you make lots of money, especially if you have bills and responsibilities. It took me near ten years before I actually started to earn what I would consider a living wage. But I did not have anything when I got into this racket, I was young, recently divorced, lost everything and needed a roof and a few squares a day. Trucking fit the bill and allowed me to simply survive. I remember many times calling home and asking for money from my parents just so I could eat.

With 20 years under my belt and a squeaky clean record I can honestly tell all of you, I could not afford to be a company driver at these wages. Wages that have not gone up in over thirty years.

This is a good post but I ran your numbers and they do not add up.

$30/week school over 26 weeks comes to $780 which is over the $500 figure you said was charged. Does Swift charge interest on this "loan"?
$37/week for School X 56 weeks (13mths) comes to $2,072. $2,072 + $780 = $2,852 which is neither the $3,700 school or $4,400 which is school plus lodging.

Even at $67/week for the full 56 weeks you still come up to $3,752 not $4,400.

Your base when training is a flat $450 - $67 training + $383/week. This should put you in the 15% bracket so I would lower my with-holding to that amount. $383(.15)=$57.45.

$383 - $57.45 = $325.55 takehome. Actually, I would figure out how much I would make over the year and at this amount of money would lower my withholding to 0 as my tax liability would be 0 at the end of the year.

Keep in mind that schooling is tax deductable as a job retraining expense (correct me on this but I'm pretty sure it is) so you will get this amount back at the end of the year. That won't help you now, though.

$325 - $100/week on the road leaves $225 for you. I lived on the road in my truck for 3 years and never spent $100/week. You can get a footlong sub deal at subway for $7 and eat half for lunch and half for dinner plus a small meal breakfast. This will lower your daily meal cost and keep your from gaining 100lbs. I also bought fruit and canned food like tuna to eat one meal a day and further lowered my meal expenses but I'm not a fussy eater and didn't mind doing this. However, if you like to go to movies or whatever then, ok, $100/wk expenses. Keep your meal receipts and itemize and you'll get it back. Again dosn't help you now.

I never paid for a shower on the road when I started out and can count the number I paid for out of my pocket over the last 18 yrs or so on one hand. Fueled everyday and got a free one and used it. Shower expenses are deductable also.

Is $225/week enough to live on? depends. If you have a wife and kid at home and she dosn't work then of course not unless you already own your home and have no debt. Single kid out of high school or college then probably.

You have a great post. Forget the numbers, all of this is something new drivers should consider before signing up. The trucking companies always tell you about the "big money" your going to make and few newbies sit down to run the numbers of how they are going to get there. Can you afford to start in a new field and pay for this? And make little money doing it? Yes all the expenses are deductible and you might even find a government program to pay for your schooling but its not much money at any rate to start.

When I started I was single, had no debt and no wife/kids/girlfriend. I went to a training cdl mill and they wanted something like $7,000 and I said "why the hell would I pay you for this when Swift pay for the school and lodging and give me a job? I didn't care about the money as I didnt need it and looked at it with that in mind right from the get go. It was re-training in a new field and I did not expect to make a lot the first year and I never believed anybody that tried to tell me something different. I was not disappointed when I didnt make much either. Everyone should think long and hard and run the numbers like you did before deciding to switch fields and go into trucking.

You are right about the wages in the last 30 years. I'm making roughly the same now as I did 10 yrs ago which with inflation is less than that. Sucks and very few can argue that Drivers are not due for a raise.

Forget the money which in the beginning and for years afterward really isn't that much but is something and ask yourself "will my marriage survive my being gone 3-4 weeks at a time"? Thats the bigger question and for far too many drivers the answer is no it will not.

[bentstrider]

Forget the money which in the beginning and for years afterward really isn't that much but is something and ask yourself "will my marriage survive my being gone 3-4 weeks at a time"? Thats the bigger question and for far too many drivers the answer is no it will not.

Well, once you get past paying the school tuition and such, I just up and tell people that if they don't want to get involved in a regular life(wife, kids, picket fences, boring things like that, to me anyway) then this will be a perfect job for them regardless of the price.

Another reason I do it, I've never been good at establishing roots anywhere.
Lived in the same CA city since I was four and still feel like a stranger.

My thoughts on the matter.

[geeshock]

I don't think your getting slammed for posting the numbers as much as for you coming across as bitter. I did attend swifts academy, I did do 6 weeks training with swift, and I was with swift for over 1 1/2 years. I saw some realty sucky paychecks but overall my paychecks were ok, even though I was at .26 cpm the first 6 mos. ( this was b4 they raised you every month for the 1st 3 mos). I agree the beginning driver should expect the worst pand hope for the best but based on my exp. your numbers don't match my experience when I started.

[Joey Shabadoo]

If you have brains or ambition, do not take an OTR job.
Like sin, it will keep you longer than you planned.
And cost you your life as a husband, a father, and a citizen.

[geeshock]

If you have brains or ambition, do not take an OTR job.
Like sin, it will keep you longer than you planned.
And cost you your life as a husband, a father, and a citizen.

lol, that's a funny one.

[jonp]

Well, once you get past paying the school tuition and such, I just up and tell people that if they don't want to get involved in a regular life(wife, kids, picket fences, boring things like that, to me anyway) then this will be a perfect job for them regardless of the price.

Another reason I do it, I've never been good at establishing roots anywhere.
Lived in the same CA city since I was four and still feel like a stranger.

My thoughts on the matter.

Exactly my point. Many look at the numbers and not the big picture.

[jd112488]

something about joey shabadoo seems very familiar

[Hawkjr]

something about joey shabadoo seems very familiar

Like a Basketball Player or A Temperature Beverage In A Certain Kind Of Cup??

[GMAN]

The truth is that the economy is down. Miles are down with most carriers. You can still earn a decent living. I would not put too much credence in those who constantly put down otr driving. While this isn't for everyone, those who put it down so much are the ones who likely could not make it in the profession. Some people are just not cut out for this business. Some find it difficult to be away from their mommies or familes. That isn't a reason to put down others for enjoying their chosen field. There are some who have a poor work ethic. You can't sit in a truck stop playing video games and make a good living in this profession. There isn't as much supervision in otr trucking as in many jobs such as working in a factory or punching a clock. Making a good living requires that the driver be disciplined and a good time manager. He must have the discipline to make his pick ups and deliveries in a timely manner. Those who are used to whining and getting their way are not likely to make it in this business. Trucking was built by self starters who found a way to do their jobs while over coming tremendous obstacles. Whiners and those with a poor work ethic will find it difficult to make it in this business. Those are the ones who will come on here and tell others how bad it is driving otr. Just because they could not make it doesn't mean that others can't.

Just as in any other profession, you start at the bottom and work your way up. Pay isn't the greatest starting out with many companies. Many jobs start out at minimum wage and your pay increases as your experience and proficiency improves. Trucking is the same. It takes time to learn how to best do your job and that isn't something you learn in a few months. This is a skilled profession. There is essentially an apprenticeship period where you work and hone your skills to a professional level. I don't know of a single profession where you start out at top pay without any experience. Many drivers can be earning as much as many college graduates with a year or two. There are not many other professions where you can earn as much without several years training or a degree.

This business attracts people from a very broad range of backgrounds. I have met attorneys, doctors, businessmen, teachers and college professors who have decided to change careers and drive otr. There are others who barely have a high school diploma who come to this business. There must be a reason. I have a good friend who was once a college professor. He has a Masters Degree and opted out of teaching to run a trucking business. Another used to run a manufacturing plant supervising hundreds of people. He has successfully been running his own authority for several years. These are people who have experience in other professions and are qualified do do other things but have chosen to drive otr rather than sit in an office or classroom. These are not dumb people. They might make more doing something else, but chose trucking. Sometimes it isn't about the money, although both earn a good living driving. It is about enjoying what you do for a living. You can find things that you don't enjoy about any job. If you don't like it then don't do it. However, there is no reason to constantly put others down for doing what they enjoy.

[Malaki86]

Very well said Gman - very well indeed.

Others also live in an area with a depressed economy. Based on a 40 hour work week, I'd have to be paid roughly $20 per hour to make the money I do driving a truck. However, around here you'd be lucky to get a minimum wage job working 40 hours.

My wife is perfectly fine with me being away from home during the week, but starts getting upset when I stay out for 2 weeks. Lucky for me I work for a carrier where I'm home probably 99% of every weekend. Besides, she works night shift and even if I was home every day with a 'normal' job, we wouldn't see each other anyway.

It's all what you make of it.

[geeshock]

kudos gman, put it out there pretty accurate. coudn't have said it better myself

[Jumbo]

If you have brains or ambition, do not take an OTR job.
Like sin, it will keep you longer than you planned.
And cost you your life as a husband, a father, and a citizen.

If you are speaking from experience perhaps you sucked as a husband, father and citizen before your OTR career.

[geeshock]

If you are speaking from experience perhaps you sucked as a husband, father and citizen before your OTR career.

well, don't know if I would take it that far. OTR puts a strain on a marriage, at least most. My wife used to be married to someone in the Navy and that was tough but she still got him a cupple of months out of the year. She gets to see me 2 days then I'm out for 14 to 30+ days. Don't have any kids but have step children, and by extension, grandkids. They always wonder when I'm coming back to see them. Missed many births, and many holidays. There are a great many ppl that can't handle this side of trucking and it has put my relations in the fire more than once. I disagree with his comment on ambition and citizenship. Truck drivers are some of the biggest go getters I know of. To make loads on time, plan routes, deal with shipers/recievers in a professional manner, stay out for extended times away from fam takes a drive and special breed of person. The citizen part, DON'T EVER CALL ME A BAD CITIZEN, I served my country as did many others on this board. most of us are patriotic to a fault. Enough on that, I defended the rights of all ppl, including the ones that call me a bad American.

[Joey Shabadoo]

Truck drivers are some of the biggest go getters I know of. To make loads on time, plan routes, deal with shipers/recievers in a professional manner, stay out for extended times away from fam takes a drive and special breed of person.

I don't disagree with that.
My point is simply that these guys are way underpaid for what they do.
Rates/wages have gone nowhere in OTR trucking and will continue to go down.
Even fast food jobs get raises due to minimum wage laws.

The citizen part, DON'T EVER CALL ME A BAD CITIZEN, I served my country as did many others on this board. most of us are patriotic to a fault. Enough on that, I defended the rights of all ppl, including the ones that call me a bad American.

How many truckers vote?
How many truckers are active in politics in their communities?
How many gave their input into the new HOS?
Very few.
Why do you think politicians don't listen to us?
Because truckers don't vote.

[Mr. Ford95]

How many truckers are active in politics? Dude you so don't have a clue with that statement. When your OTR you vote absentee then again very few regular joes are just as inactive and they don't even drive a truck at all. What do you consider being more active anyways? I would be more active locally but I think the gentleman who represents me is doing just fine and we talk every now and then via email.

[tinytim]

...Now subtract at least $100 for living expenses out of that in the form of an advance... We have a net pay of "roughly" $161.00 for the week.

All right, $161 for the week, say you are out 8 weeks, that works out to.... $1288.00 or $644 a month net pay, or $21.46 a day NET.

Now, we go solo, we start at Swift @ .26 a mile. Your first week out, you get 1000 miles...

Now you start getting some miles, you are now up to 1500 miles a week average for your first 6 months...
You must be related to my better half. She's the only person I know who could say something like an advance doesn't count as part of your pay.

1000 miles a week? Wow, I never thought of this as a part time job. I've only been at this a bit less than 2 years but I have never had a week less than 2000 miles. And that only happened a couple of times. 2700 to 3200 is the norm right now.

1000 miles a week and the rest of the time at a T/S, you'd have to crazy, desperate or more likely both to put up with that.

I love what I do but I would absolutely hate it if I were in that situation. I know a lot of the stuff you read on here should discourage anyone from thinking of getting into the business but I gotta say it's not like that everywhere. I don't run into many Swift drivers but i do talk to a lot of drivers, and many say miles are low right now, but it's rare anyone mentions anything lower than a 2000 mile a week average.

[geeshock]

actually 3 out of 3 years I've been OTR I've voted. If I can give my 2 cents in politics I will. Short of treason or violence I would never call someone a bad citizen. The rates may go down but thats not totaly out of our control. Remember the slogan no cheep frieght. Pick a price and don't work for below your price, anyways, I see the same trend on the outside world. In the boat building industry that I came out of the wages are insanely low now. When boats are in higher demand the wages will come back up. same in trucking.

[jonp]

People who don't vote because it's "too hard" to do an absentee ballot is exactly why we just had the House pass this insane health-care bill. If you don't think you make much now how are you going to deal with an increase in taxes and being forced to buy government approved insurance or go to jail if you don't?

When I hear truckers or anyone else complaining about this stuff I ask them right off if they voted. If they say no then I tell them to shut-up until they do.

[repete]

It is what it is:
Long, lonely days/nights.
No friends, family, or social life whatsoever.
Poor diet from sitting on your ***** all day.
Drive 1000 miles, paid for 900.
Lots of hurry-up and unpaid waiting around.
Hometime a roll of the dice.
No overtime after 8/40 hours.
Nights, weekends, holidays spent in the big truck.
Top 10 most dangerous US occupation.
Worthless health bennies with high co-pays.
Too many freebies performed/expected of you.

The turnover rates are high in this biz for a reason:
It's because the money earned is chump-change for all the hours you put in the job, time away from home, and general BS you have to put up with.

Don't believe me?
Just look around the truckstop diner
Look at the guy sitting in the booth all by himself
Lonely, missing his friends and family
Listen to guys pissed off on the CB
They are bitter...everything is negative in their life.
Look around again in the truckstop, do u notice something?
Almost everyone is severely overweight, morbidly obese, edema of the legs, high blood pressure, sugar problems, etc.

It is for many a job of last resort.
Whereby if it weren't for the big truck, they'd be sleeping on a picnic table.
Then of course you have your ex-cons, parolees, towelheads, thieves, drifters, kooks, social misfits, 40-year old adolescents, people who don't speak English, people who don't shower, etc.
These folks tarnish the industry and give it the black mark that it enjoys today.

Like I said, it is what it is.
And that's all it ever will be...



You need to get out NOW if your that miserable! There's good compeny's and good jobs out there it's up to you to find the one for you. The OP made some good points and comparisens and while I think he may be a little light on miles, but then again he might be prtty darn close.
Just wondering where in your list of social misfits do you fit in ?? Ex-con? Thief? or just a stinky tub of lard?

[repete]

[QUOTE=Joey Shabadoo;466992]If you have brains or ambition, do not take an OTR job.


So a local gig is ok?? What would you say to about this job
$18 per hour O/T after 40 (slim chance on o/t)= $720 wk
6 paid holidays
3 sick days
week ends and holidays off
home every day
401
health dental vision
I think I got it all here, The job is consists of doing your pre-trip at aprox 2100 and then loading a few returns ( with a fork truck) than driving from aprox 80 miles and then sitting in the break (aprox 3-4 hr) room while dock workers unload and then load you , then drive back unload (again fork truck) and park truck for that they guarantee 40 hrs a week

Sounds pretty good in these "bad times"huh?




Lot's of guy's would jump on this and alot would turn them down (I did) Sure the 40 hrs sounds great but the $$$ just isn't there!
sick days and holdays?? no I don't get paid for them , I just make enough to make up for that


BTW, CFM how did we get so far off subject, and how ya been?

[curbhunter]

Justruckin

Well where to start Those miles seem very low I have been working for Swift for 5 years
only time i see a 1500ish miles is when my truck decides to break down. only been 2 times That its been in the shop more then 3 days. Or i take my 4 days off I Stay out for 3 Weeks give or take a day or 2. My last three weeks has been 2,896, 2,423, 2,754, and this week will be 3,151 when I delivery this load to Onley, IL to wally world. And yes i am a company driver

Joey Shabadoo
I will pray for you looks like you have a lot of Hate in your hart for OTR drivers.
I sir have a brain I enjoy driving. I am retired Army i could just sit at the house and be bored. The reason I drive a truck OTR is simple My wife passed away 5 1/2 years ago I need to get out of the house. You sir posted these questions

How many truckers vote? Hmmm How any people vote that are not truckers?
How many truckers are active in politics in their communities? How many none truckers are active in politics in there communities
How many gave their input into the new HOS? more then you think
Very few
Why do you think politicians don't listen to us?
Because truckers don't vote.That can be said for ever one

Also I am not fat 6' 1" 210...I take a Shower ever day......I sit by my self because i cant stand most of the BS that truckers talk about..My CB stays off unless they need it where i am picking up or dropping off....

[bentstrider]

<i>Don't believe me?
Just look around the truckstop diner
Look at the guy sitting in the booth all by himself
Lonely, missing his friends and family
Listen to guys pissed off on the CB
They are bitter...everything is negative in their life.
Look around again in the truckstop, do u notice something?
Almost everyone is severely overweight, morbidly obese, edema of the legs, high blood pressure, sugar problems, etc.

It is for many a job of last resort.
Whereby if it weren't for the big truck, they'd be sleeping on a picnic table.
Then of course you have your ex-cons, parolees, towelheads, thieves, drifters, kooks, social misfits, 40-year old adolescents, people who don't speak English, people who don't shower, etc.
These folks tarnish the industry and give it the black mark that it enjoys today.</i>


I was actually more socially active while on the road.
When I know I wasn't going to be dealing with the same person day-in/day-out like a regular, desk-jockey, 9-5r job, I found a greater deal of positive, happy people to get connected with, than the higher percentage of "stuck-ups" that have flooded my hometown.

As far as being overweight, I had a gym membership, a bicycle and plenty of different places that had to be ridden to and checked out when I had the opportunity to do so.
When you know something out there might be a little different than the last time you passed by it 2 weeks ago, you're just itching to find out what's new for yourself.
Live and work in the same city for X-amount of years, and you're pretty much used to the same, boring scenery you've already rolled through enough days out of the year.

As far as the "social-misfit" thing, you'll pretty much find that in every other type of environment as well.
They all look squeeky clean when going to their offices in Downtown<insert big city name here>, but we hear enough reports of domestic violence and other crimes from the suburbs that it doesn't really appear all that pretty anymore.

[Useless]

Also I am not fat 6' 1" 210...I take a Shower every day......

:lol2: :lol2:

And you call yourself a truck driver??

:rofl: :rofl:

[GMAN]

Driving a truck over the road is like nothing else you can do for a living. If you come into this business expecting to work 9-5 then you are going to be sorely disappointed. We do work irregular hours. That is what it takes to get the freight from point a to point b. No two days are the same. About the only thing that is routine is doing a daily pretrip. While it isn't a complicated business it does have some complicated issues with which we must deal on a daily basis. And most of us take a shower at least once a week whether we need it or not. ;)