US Express Lease Purchase

[Fuzeme]

I know most drivers, and truck owners are against lease purchase from certain companies, and I hope this is the right place to ask this question. But has anyone heard anything good, bad or ugly about US Express and their lease purchase program?

[allan5oh]

US Express Lease Purchase Program (http://www.mytruckdriverjobs.com/US_Xpress_Lease_Purchase_program.html) (I think this site is just and advertisement)

Details on the site are weak, especially any sort of buyout. Almost makes me think there isn't one. I've never understood the logic behind escrows, and they have two of them equaling 7 CPM (5 CPM maintenance and 2 CPM tires). Do you get that money back with interest at the end of the lease?

Weekly costs:

* Fixed Cost Century
* Tractor Payment $ 444.23
* Physical Damage Insurance $55.38*
* Bobtail Insurance $15.00
* Occup. Accident Insurance $32.77**
* Satcom Rental $15.00
* Highway Use Tax $10.58
* Weekly Fixed Cost $572.96

I'm assuming the asterisks mean you can purchase these elsewhere. So we have a monthly cost of $2,291.84.

Assume you can get 10,000 miles per month and that's 23 CPM. Add in the two escrows and you're at 30 CPM. Fuel right now at 6 mpg will cost you about 45 CPM, now we're at 68 CPM.

Looking at truck paper there's tons of century's in the 25-40k range in that model year. The total lease payments equals $23,100.00 plus buyout(whatever that is...)

Owner Operators - U.S. Xpress, Truck Driving Jobs, Class A CDL Jobs, Hiring Drivers, Truck Driving Opportunities, Contracotrs, Lease/Purchase (http://www.xpressdrivers.com/contractors.html)

Seems to be the correct website, with a better explanation of compensation. They use a sliding scale system like CR england, and the pay is not very good.

Lease/Purchase - U.S. Xpress, Truck Driving Jobs, Class A CDL Jobs, Hiring Drivers, Truck Driving Opportunities (http://www.xpressdrivers.com/lease.html)

"Average 91 CPM plus FSC"

What is the FSC? Average price right now is 2.65. Using the industry standard:

(2.65 - 1.25) / 6 = 23 CPM

91 CPM + 23 CPM = 114 CPM

$1.14 CPM X 10,000 miles = $11,400

$11,400 - cost (10,000 miles X 68 CPM) = $4,600 or 46 CPM, which is about what a good company would pay including drop pay.

What if you have a 6,000 mile month?

Your fixed costs shoot up to 38 CPM + 7 CPM escrew, add in fuel and you're at 83 CPM cost. That leaves you with 24 CPM, doesn't sound so good now does it?

I don't see any mention of drop pay, multiple drop pay, border crossings, do you pay tolls or do they, on and on.

If that doesn't convince you to stay away, here are the steps you should take:

1) Get a copy of both the lease agreement and o/o agreement. Have a lawyer look over both. If you don't understand the difference, we can explain that to you. If they won't give you copies, don't bother. Keep looking.

2) Do a monthly cost analysis. Use 6,000 miles, 8,000 miles, and 10,000 miles. How much did you make at the end of the month? If it is equal to or less then what a good company would pay you, what's the point of the extra risk? If it is more, how much more, and is that worth the extra risk?

3) Do a cost analysis on the truck. Do you get the truck at the end of the lease? Is the truck in good shape? Are they trying to lease it to you way above market value? Would you be better off just buying the truck on your own?

[geeshock]

I can't speak from personal exp, but I have a friend that was in it and him and his team mate have yet to make a profit in 4 mos

http://www.zetbit.com/sig-1014764.jpg (http://www.zetbit.com/)

[Fuzeme]

Yeah the company says that they no longer have any Century's around for the lease program, but are using the volvo's and Pete's, '08, '09, 010.

I now drive a ,02 Century an old Interstate truck with auto shift, and ISX cummins rated @
435. The truck can do 70, but I run primarily around 63, and on my worst days for fuel milage I get 7-8, and my best has been 10.5, light load, not much in the way of hills. The owner of this truck has a 386 Pete, with a Cat and 13 speed, which he is selling, because the best that truck will do is 5-5.5.

If I am accepted into the program I would go to Tunnel Hill for orientation, and maybe get my truck there. I guess a lot of drivers are getting into this program, but I want to look at everything before I jump with both feet, my present company has changed their payroll and it now takes 7-9 days to process one round. We are out only 7-10 days, primarily running to the Carolinas.

[geeshock]

I will tell you this much, he did prety good as an independant contractor but he had a good wife manage his money at home. He has no patience for that stuff. right after they seperated, he went team with another lady and it all went down hill from there. Might be his fault but I would think since he runs his butt off he should be able to make a profit somehow. He said they aren't running him enough and he even had to turn his truck back in.

[Fuzeme]

Well the guy that I work for started out with only 2 trks, he now has 27, he says you have to know your costs, budget hard, and not try to out run your expenses, you never will. He told me if I ever do buy my own truck, I have to run it as a business, not like I did as a company driver, I have to know my risks, be good at planning, and try to keep the truck in good shape.

Buy a truck that will make money for you, spend less than you take in, over time if the truck is giving you problems, upgrade.

I know lease purchase is very risky, but some folks are making it work, but a lot have failed.

[mike3fan]

but some folks are making it work,


Bet you can't get 5 to post positive experiences at a fleece purchase with one of these mega carriers. Let me ask you this. If it's so great why isn't there hundreds if not thousands of guys on here or any where else singing the praises of L/P deals? Surely enough have tried.

Never be indebted to a company for anything more than a job.

I would ask for 5-10 phone numbers of current L/P operators and get first hand experiences from them.

[no_worries]

Lease purchase or not, you'll make more as a company driver if they're going to pay you $.91/mile.

[GMAN]

I spoke with an owner operator a year or so ago who told me that he paid out his truck at U.S. Xpress. Those who seem to be failing the most right now are those with big truck payments. $2,000+ is a big payment to make each month. If you take any time off your payments will continue. I don't understand why you would want to put your future in such jeopardy. There are good trucks on the market for much less than $20,000 that are in good shape. A guy told me today that he knows of two that the owners want to sell for less then $5,000. According to him both of these trucks are in good shape. I believe one needs 4 drive tires. You don't need a big truck payment to be a successful owner operator. You don't need a new or nearly new truck to be a successful owner operator. You need to buy something you can pay for and that is in good shape. There are many trucks on the market that you can get into for way less than you will pay for the USX truck. You will pay too big of a payment and rates are not sufficiently high enough for you to make decent money.

I have owned a number of trucks. I have yet to lease a truck. There is a good reason that I have never leased a truck from a carrier. I have looked into quite a few of their programs. You will pay much more for one of these trucks than you can go out and buy one outright. If your credit isn't good enough to buy a truck on your own then you don't need to buy one until you can either get your credit in good shape or save enough to pay cash. This is a business. A good businessman doesn't pay more for a piece of equipment than he must. There are thousands of experienced owner operators who are having difficulty making it in this down economy. I may have mentioned it on another thread but I have had 2 former owner operators who lost their trucks after making payments for 4 years. Both had nice 379 Peterbilts. They only had 1 year left before their trucks were paid off. When the economy tanked they could not make the payments. I really felt for both of them. They bought their trucks when the economy was doing well. In all likelyhood, neither managed their money well when things went well. Or other factors could have come into play, such a a family illness. In any case, they both wound up with trucks that they could no longer afford. If you want to become an owner operator you need to keep your payments as low as possible. You should be able to get a payment around $500 with today's economy. You can pay for a $500/month truck. If you do decide to lease one of those USX trucks I hope you will come on and give us an update as you progress.

[Fuzeme]

One thing is for sure though, lease purchase does work with the right company, and a driver that has a good business sense. Yes I agree more folks have failed at lease purchase than those who have made it work, now is US Express lease purchase any good, don't know, are they trying to make money off the driver, of course, that is why I am doing the research.

Lease purchase programs are not all created equal.

[Fuzeme]

Thanks Gman for the info.

[GMAN]

You are welcome, Fuzeme.

[mike3fan]

One thing is for sure though, lease purchase does work with the right company

really? which ones? just because someone completes the L/P doesn't make it successful.


Yes I agree more folks have failed at lease purchase than those who have made it work


by a surprisingly wide margin I bet



now is US Express lease purchase any good, don't know, are they trying to make money off the driver, of course, that is why I am doing the research.


I don't know for sure either, but I know for sure I am not willing to bet my financial future on it, save some money and buy your own truck and be a true O/O, not some money maker for a stupid mega carrier.

[knightscastle55]

the other thing that u have to consider is knowing how to keep the truck running without putting all the profits into repairs. a little knowledge in mechanics goes a long way........

[Rev.Vassago]

Bet you can't get 5 to post positive experiences at a fleece purchase with one of these mega carriers. Let me ask you this. If it's so great why isn't there hundreds if not thousands of guys on here or any where else singing the praises of L/P deals? Surely enough have tried.

Everyone thinks they are the exception to the rule. Sadly, they aren't. It's the probability fallacy. Our brain wants to convince us that we are a unique and beautiful snowflake, and even though everyone else failed, somehow we're different and will see a better result. But we're not unique, and the odds of succeeding are just as crappy for us as they were for the last guy who failed.

People use this same logic when buying a lottery ticket. Fast fact: The odds of winning a Mega Millions Jackpot are 175,000,000 to one. The odds, as an American Male, of being Tom Cruise are only 150,000,000 to one.

[Rev.Vassago]

Lease purchase programs are not all created equal.

No, they pretty much are.

[chris1]

I believe most that would do a L/P would also fail if they purchased a truck outright. Little or no credit,no cash,no idea.

[zipy46]

A US Express fellow helpled me blindside a while back and then we got to talking about

trucking and what not...he was not doing to well leasing with those guys

Always having to cook his books... he gave the impression they play dirty pool

But then I have yet to come across a dispatch system that didnt ...

So it takes 2 to tango as they say

good luck

[zipy46]

the other thing that u have to consider is knowing how to keep the truck running without putting all the profits into repairs. a little knowledge in mechanics goes a long way........

I just got a complete 'P/M' on the truck I am driving...

That Includes Tractor Serv and Trailer Maint and top quailty filters and oil for 280.oo

Do it every 20,000 miles :)

[VPIDarkAngel]

Here's another question to ask before doing a lease program. Why drive this truck, when you can drive a similarly equipped company truck?
Another way to approach this is to save up X dollars each week, and don't touch that until you get enough (and then some) for a decent truck. Use some to buy the truck, and use some as spare cash for repairs, PM service, tires, etc. Even if you lease, rather than purchase, always keep some savings in reserve in case the crap hits the fan (which it will).

[Fuzeme]

The owner I work for is going to replace my current trk, which is a 02 Century, and old Interstate Dist. trk, with a 05 T-600, it will have a Cat backed up with a 13 speed. Now he leases/ sells trks to his drivers for a good price, they can drive the trk for a while to obtain the data they need to decide if they want to buy/ lease the trk.
So I think for me that will be a better way to go, I can test drive the trk for several months as company driver, if it turns out to be a money maker, I'll get into his lease program. That way I'm not changing companies, or leasing a trk I don't know, or have any data on.

If I do decide to lease from him, he will set up my accounting, insurance, escrow accounts, I will be a clone of how he runs his operation. He started out with 2 trks, now he has 27 and growing.

[Rev.Vassago]

If I do decide to lease from him, he will set up my accounting, insurance, escrow accounts, I will be a clone of how he runs his operation. He started out with 2 trks, now he has 27 and growing.

If he's like pretty much every other l/p company out there, once you start renting a job from him, he may be able to add 1 or 2 more to his fleet.:lol:

Best of luck.

[no_worries]

The owner I work for is going to replace my current trk, which is a 02 Century, and old Interstate Dist. trk, with a 05 T-600, it will have a Cat backed up with a 13 speed. Now he leases/ sells trks to his drivers for a good price, they can drive the trk for a while to obtain the data they need to decide if they want to buy/ lease the trk.

Does this at all make you wonder why he would do such a deal? He already has the truck and the driver, why would he turn around and lease the truck to the driver? He doesn't gain a truck, he doesn't gain a driver. In fact, he turns a driver that he had a decent amount of control over into a contractor whom he has much less control over. The only reason it makes sense is because he retains the same truck and driver but it costs him a heck of a lot less. So how does one account for the difference in cost?

[Fuzeme]

We're leased on to a really good company, he doesn't provide the loads, they do, so if I lease a truck I get my dispatch from this company, like I am now, and I get paid directly by this company. I then pay him the agreed upon amount for the trk. I watched another driver go through the program, and he is now 10 wks away from owning his truck. He started out with a year lease.

This owner is like any other dealer, and or leasing company, they provide the trk, your carrier provides the loads. Are truck dealers, leasing companies, and trk owners making money on used trks, of course, and the thing with this owner, he owns his own diesel shop, the trucking business is just a side thing he does with his shop.

All our loads come from the carrier he is leased on to, not from him.

[Rev.Vassago]

So why doesn't he just open a dealership, since you're pretty much saying he is like one of those "BUY HERE, PAY HERE" places. He must be making a killing on this. He lets you take all the risk, and simply provides you the rope to hang yourself, making a tidy profit in the process. He doesn't even need to do the work of finding you loads!

Wow....

[Fuzeme]

Well it really wouldn't be any different if I went to Freightliner or a KW dealer, what risk are they assuming if I buy a used truck from them? Can I get my tires, parts, and repairs at a discount through them? I think not.

They assume that if I am buying a truck from them, that I know the risks involved with owning a truck, the same with this situation, he will not put a driver in this program who is not willing to use good business practices. He told us " this is a business, and you have to run it like a business, and this business can put you under real quick if you are not careful."

No dealer, lease company, or truck owner is going to allow you to test drive a truck for several months to see if you want to buy it. And if I decide to stay in the truck at that point as a company driver, what have I lost? What has he lost? he still has me, and his truck.

[Rev.Vassago]

Well it really wouldn't be any different if I went to Freightliner or a KW dealer, what risk are they assuming if I buy a used truck from them?

None, and the price you pay usually reflects it.

Can I get my tires, parts, and repairs at a discount through them? I think not.

Nope, and you can't get them at a discount through this guy either. You can, however, get them at a discount through the company you lease to.


No dealer, lease company, or truck owner is going to allow you to test drive a truck for several months to see if you want to buy it. And if I decide to stay in the truck at that point as a company driver, what have I lost? What has he lost? he still has me, and his truck.

If you're going into business in a "trial run", you likely haven't done your homework first.

[Fuzeme]

Well we can get all that through him, even the fuel discounts he gets, if we continue to use his fuel card.

Tires, repairs, and parts can all be bought through him, because he owns a truck repair shop, but we can use any place we want, just a better deal going through him.

As far as the trial run with the truck, I would still be a company driver, in a company truck, if I decide to get into his program, at that point I would become a lease operator, in a lease truck, with our current carrier.

IF I go with US Express, I would be in a rental truck for 90 days, then they would put me in a '09 or '10 Pete, with weekly payment of 620- 667. They are all out of the Century's, a lot of folks are doing their lease program.

[Rev.Vassago]

Well we can get all that through him, even the fuel discounts he gets, if we continue to use his fuel card.

Tires, repairs, and parts can all be bought through him, because he owns a truck repair shop, but we can use any place we want, just a better deal going through him.

As far as the trial run with the truck, I would still be a company driver, in a company truck, if I decide to get into his program, at that point I would become a lease operator, in a lease truck, with our current carrier.

IF I go with US Express, I would be in a rental truck for 90 days, then they would put me in a '09 or '10 Pete, with weekly payment of 620- 667. They are all out of the Century's, a lot of folks are doing their lease program.

Why are you comparing the two? Why go into business for yourself at all? What do you have to realistically gain by going into business for yourself? What do you have to lose? Given the current market, going into business for yourself right now is an even bigger risk than it was a year ago.

But like I said earlier, the probability fallacy will rule, and you'll think you're the exception to the rule. Debating this is completely futile, as you've already made up your mind. Best of luck.

[Jumbo]

$667 a week is $2668.00 a month. WOW.

[Rev.Vassago]

$667 a week is $2668.00 a month. WOW.

Yeah, that's more than I pay for my 379 Peterbilt that I bought new. WAY more. Nothing like setting yourself up for failure right from the start. But hey - the OP knows more than the rest of us. After all, the guy who is gonna rent him a job started out with 2 trucks, and now has 27. And he's growing. And judging by the stars in the OP's eyes, now I know why.

[GMAN]

Yeah, that's more than I pay for my 379 Peterbilt that I bought new. WAY more. Nothing like setting yourself up for failure right from the start. But hey - the OP knows more than the rest of us. After all, the guy who is gonna rent him a job started out with 2 trucks, and now has 27. And he's growing. And judging by the stars in the OP's eyes, now I know why.


If he has 27 people renting his trucks at the rate mentioned, he is making a very good living by simply renting trucks. Perhaps I need to start renting trucks. I would probably make more renting them than running them.:thumbsup:

[Flying W]

If what Fuzeme says is true for a US Xpress lease payment of $620 a week, it sure sounds like a great way to pay a driver half of minimum wage at best. I believe P.T. Barnum is a bit behind the times now when he said "There's a sucker born every minute."

"He will not put a driver in this program who is not willing to use good business practices. He told us this is a business, and you have to run it like a business." You'll have to give me a moment as I'm still laughing. Ah, much better. Why not, CR England has been doing it for years and is still around with drivers lacking common sense, let alone business sense?

I respect GMAN for his knowledge, and hope the advice he offers is listened to in your case. The description given of the planned lease would make me run the other way.

[Fuzeme]

You guys are getting two different situations mixed up, ok, US Express is leasing new to near new Pete's for around 620-667. You have to go through a 90 day period using a rental truck. If you stick it out for a year, you get a bonus, but no truck, if you want to continue leasing the truck, you can.

I am not in US Express leasing program, nor am I going to be in their program, I am not in any lease program. The truck I drive is owned by an owner who is leased on to a small carrier, that is growing, we got several new accounts last week, reefer loads. This carrier is 100% owner operator, no company drivers. Because the carrier is growing and profitable, and the miles are really good, and have been even in this recession, and with other companies closing their doors, this enables the owner of my truck to grow hence the reason he is adding more trucks.

I do want to say one thing, the info I have received from the many contributors on this board has caused me to walk away from the US Express program, after all who wouldn't want to drive around a new shiny Iron Horse. But if you are taken to the cleaners in the process, what's the point? I am seriously thinking about the program offered by my company, I talked with the owner of the carrier we are leased to and he thinks it is a good program for new owner Ops. Trucks aren't new, most have about 400,000 miles on them, just starting to get broke in.

[Flying W]

"I talked with the owner of the carrier we are leased to and he thinks it is a good program for new owner Ops." I can't argue with that as I'm 100% positive he thinks it is a good idea.

Do you have a rough idea what your expenses will be (by that I mean cpm), and what you'll be paid under this lease?

[no_worries]

You guys are getting two different situations mixed up, ok, US Express is leasing new to near new Pete's for around 620-667. You have to go through a 90 day period using a rental truck. If you stick it out for a year, you get a bonus, but no truck, if you want to continue leasing the truck, you can.

I am not in US Express leasing program, nor am I going to be in their program, I am not in any lease program. The truck I drive is owned by an owner who is leased on to a small carrier, that is growing, we got several new accounts last week, reefer loads. This carrier is 100% owner operator, no company drivers. Because the carrier is growing and profitable, and the miles are really good, and have been even in this recession, and with other companies closing their doors, this enables the owner of my truck to grow hence the reason he is adding more trucks.

I do want to say one thing, the info I have received from the many contributors on this board has caused me to walk away from the US Express program, after all who wouldn't want to drive around a new shiny Iron Horse. But if you are taken to the cleaners in the process, what's the point? I am seriously thinking about the program offered by my company, I talked with the owner of the carrier we are leased to and he thinks it is a good program for new owner Ops. Trucks aren't new, most have about 400,000 miles on them, just starting to get broke in.

Posters are making these assumptions because the only information you've given regarding truck payments is from the US Xpress program. Because those are the specifics you've asked about, everybody assumes that this other deal is similar in structure. If it wasn't, why bother asking about USX. Now, if you want to give information about what your truck payments and rates would be with your current carrier, I'll bet people would stop referencing the USX numbers.

[RostyC]

If he has 27 people renting his trucks at the rate mentioned, he is making a very good living by simply renting trucks. Perhaps I need to start renting trucks. I would probably make more renting them than running them.:thumbsup:

You know........... and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but the short amount of time I've been in this business, sometimes I think you can make more money off of truck drivers than driving a truck.

[chris1]

You know........... and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but the short amount of time I've been in this business, sometimes I think you can make more money off of truck drivers than driving a truck.
Only the ignorant ones:)

[RostyC]

Only the ignorant ones:)

Yeah, that's what I meant, perhaps I didn't phrase it quite right.

[GMAN]

You know........... and I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but the short amount of time I've been in this business, sometimes I think you can make more money off of truck drivers than driving a truck.


At one time I gave serious consideration to buying trucks and leasing them to drivers. If I did I would want to try to come up with a program that would be fair to the driver and myself. I pretty much came to the conclusion that if you make it fair for the driver that you will lose money. If you set it up like these big carriers do you could make a lot of money off of these drivers who want to rent a truck. I do think that many of them make more off the leases than the freight they haul.

[Jumbo]

Gman, If you buy a truck them let me lease it from you I promise that every other month I will make a payment to you that is at least HALF of what I owe you. That is if there is any money left after the usual expenses i.e. chrome, beer and commercial company. Scouts honor.

[Fuzeme]

One of our drivers has 11 payments left and he will own his truck, he had tried another lease purchase program, and they charged him for everything, needless to say, he failed. But with this program, he got a copy of the lease, while he was a company driver, they didn't push any thing on him, he followed the program, and now he will soon own his truck. He averaged 3500 miles a week, and the only he sat, was when he wanted to, our carrier keeps us rolling. Legally too.

In America, everything bought and sold has a mark up, somebody somewhere is making money on just about everything we buy. I worked for a furniture store that was big enough to buy La-Z-Boys for $25 a piece from the manufacturer, they then turned around and sold them for $350 a piece in the store. They sold like crazy, folks thought they were getting such a great deal. What a profit.

The selling and leasing of trucks is no different, however you purchase your truck, someone is making money on the deal, sometimes, big money!!!

[LOAD IT]

Fuzeme, do you currently drive for USX as a company driver? If not, maybe you should consider that option before doing a L/P. Think about this, if they have the freight now, then you will stay rolling as a company driver and they have 100% of the expenses of running that truck. If you take L/P, you have 100% of the expenses of running that truck and they may not have the freight for you. L/P is the carriers way of getting those unseated(empty) trucks off the fence and have you drive it paying all of the expense, when it gets close to the end of your lease, they starve you so they can get the truck back and lease it to someone else. I can lease you the truck of your choice if you are the right candidate and you can haul my freight averaging $1.90 per mile to you. You probably wouldnt like the work, you cant get 4000 miles per week.

[GMAN]

Gman, If you buy a truck them let me lease it from you I promise that every other month I will make a payment to you that is at least HALF of what I owe you. That is if there is any money left after the usual expenses i.e. chrome, beer and commercial company. Scouts honor.


Man, I could really make a lot of money off of you, Jumbo. I would not want you to be without the necessities of life, such as your chrome, beer and commercial company. :lol:

[Fuzeme]

No I don't work for US Express, I work for an owner who has trucks leased on to a 100% owner operator company. So if I get into my employers l/p program, I would get the truck from him, my loads would come from the carrier the truck is leased to, so the carrier has no vested interest in the truck at all, it just needs me and my truck to haul the loads it books on a daily basis.

And they keep me hoping, I sit only if I want to, I get to choose the area I want to run, and when I get home, which is every 7-10 days, I let them know when I am ready to head back out again. All this as a company driver. I run the south and southeast, I love the Carolina's no chains in the winter.
With them picking up new accounts all the time, I would have no problem finishing my one year lease, then the truck is mine, free and clear. My employer gave me a copy of the lease, so I could look at things real close, trucks aren't new, the one I'm going into is 3yrs old, when he gets it in, his shop will go over the truck, put new rubber on, completely service the truck, and then I get to test drive it for a month or so, to see if i like or not.

I love this country.:clap:

[Fuzeme]

Load it, you are right, I got 4000 miles on a 7 day rotation, I left on a Friday, by the time I got home the following Friday I had 4000 miles. We were really busy that week, most of the time my miles are between 28- 3200.

So no I don't do 4k every week, be nice if I did though.:clap:

What company pays $1.90 to the truck? Must be expedited freight.

And if I get the truck I want, I would never make any money, I love Pete's, 379 my favorite, big Cat, 18 speed, 270 inch wb, all the chicken lights, keyless entry, ect.:clap:

[mike3fan]

How do they pay? on percentage of the load, or by the mile? the carrier not your boss.

[LOAD IT]

Fuzeme, sounds like your 100% owner op compnay is the place to be. You need to get USX out of your mind unless you have ample vaseline. Why would you even consider USX L/P with the deal you have in your hand? Hmmmm?

[Dejanh]

I love Pete's, 379 my favorite, big Cat, 18 speed, 270 inch wb, all the chicken lights, keyless entry, ect.:clap:
Yeah..stay driving a company truck.

With the attitude like this, i'd hate to see you hang it up like many do.

[Rev.Vassago]

Keyless entry = the difference between a failed O/O and a successful one.:rofl:

[mike3fan]

Yeah..stay driving a company truck.

With the attitude like this, i'd hate to see you hang it up like many do.


So are you saying you can't make it with a Pete 379 all tricked out? While I agree this poster should keep his expenses to a minimum starting out, I also feel it is much more important leasing onto the correct carrier instead of what truck he buys.

[mike3fan]

What company pays $1.90 to the truck? Must be expedited freight.


They are out there and no they are not expedited freight, in fact those guys usually make way less than that after all deadhead is figured in. Why would anyone want to run 4k miles a week? Find a carrier where you can work less not more for the same money.

[Dejanh]

So are you saying you can't make it with a Pete 379 all tricked out? While I agree this poster should keep his expenses to a minimum starting out, I also feel it is much more important leasing onto the correct carrier instead of what truck he buys.
No, am not saying that...

Its like a 16 year old wanting a Mercedes as their first car....

And why would you want a tricked out truck, expecially starting out in this economy? If they made me more money then I would understand...and the pool of these ,,correct'' carriers is getting smaller by the day. Is Dana hiring?

The kind of truck that one buys I think has alot to do with ones financial buttom line I think, but thats just me.

[mike3fan]

The kind of truck that one buys I think has alot to do with ones financial buttom line I think, but thats just me.

I'll put my bottom line up against anyone leased to a McMega carrier, I don't care if they got their truck as a birthday present. Thats why I say it's more about who you lease onto and not what truck you buy. I net more than they gross.

Not sure about the hiring thing, but if you had a truck around Charlotte friday you would've had a job, busy as hell.

[Dejanh]

I'll put my bottom line up against anyone leased to a McMega carrier, I don't care if they got their truck as a birthday present. Thats why I say it's more about who you lease onto and not what truck you buy. I net more than they gross.

Not sure about the hiring thing, but if you had a truck around Charlotte friday you would've had a job, busy as hell.
I know you've been looking for a reason to tell us youre doing goo there at Dana, am happy for you but, you misunderstood my point.

If one, who just starts out, goes out and buys that Pete which is pricey, he or she will not only pay more for the truck, but also pay more in interest and everything else concerning it. You arent just starting out?

As far as your terminal here, i had a talk with that menager of yours who runs the place and found the guy to be very anal and disrespectful. I've talked to Maniac about it. I wish that I can see him in a local Wal-Mart just to give him piece of my mind.

[mike3fan]

I know you've been looking for a reason to tell us youre doing goo there at Dana, am happy for you but, you misunderstood my point.

If one, who just starts out, goes out and buys that Pete which is pricey, he or she will not only pay more for the truck, but also pay more in interest and everything else concerning it. You arent just starting out?

As far as your terminal here, i had a talk with that menager of yours who runs the place and found the guy to be very anal and disrespectful. I've talked to Maniac about it. I wish that I can see him in a local Wal-Mart just to give him piece of my mind.

But you won't even acknowledge my point that the company you lease to could run you bankrupt no matter what truck you buy. I said that the OP should not buy a Pete 379 starting out, considering what companies he's looking at. I took exception to your comment that made it sound that you had to buy a cheap truck in order to make it as an O/O. If I mis-understood your point I'm sorry.

I work out of Michigan and only have limited dealings with the guy you speak of in Charlotte, but can't say I disagree with your statement. Stay away from that Maniac guy, he's trouble. :)

[GMAN]

It would be much better if he starts out with something less expensive than a tricked out 379. Starting out it is much more important to make money and most 379's get lower fuel economy than some of the more aerodynamic trucks. They will usually cost more to purchase. You can sometimes buy 2 of a different brand, such as a Freightlineer and get better fuel economy. I understand what Dejanh is saying. All of that chrome won't make any more money for you. The more you pay for a truck the higher your operating costs. Collision insurance will be more on a more expensive truck. Since you pay more for the truck other expenses will also be higher, such as interest. If he is determined to buy a 379 Pete, I am sure he will find plenty of them on the repo lots.

[mike3fan]

Question for GMAN and Dejanh, which of these companies would you lease to?

Swift
CR England
JB Hunt
US Express
Celadon

[BanditsCousin]

You forgot to include Prime.

[Dejanh]

Question for GMAN and Dejanh, which of these companies would you lease to?

Swift
CR England
JB Hunt
US Express
Celadon
Schneider..

[GMAN]

Question for GMAN and Dejanh, which of these companies would you lease to?

Swift
CR England
JB Hunt
US Express
Celadon


I would not lease to any of them.

[mike3fan]

I would not lease to any of them.


Why not?

[GMAN]

Why not?


None of them pay owner operators enough.

[mike3fan]

None of them pay owner operators enough.

Oh, because all the advice I have seen from you guys has been about buying a cheap aerodynamic truck with small payments and nothing about the company you are leasing onto.

So maybe since you wouldn't consider any of these cheap carriers maybe my giving advice that it is much more important to consider which company they lease to than which truck they buy wouldn't seem so bad.

I don't care what truck you buy, I don't believe you can make even as much as driver wages leasing a truck onto one of the McMega carriers. My advice from the beginning was to buy a affordable truck and look for the best paying carrier you can find, which is anything but a dry van carrier these days. And doing L/P deal thru any of these carriers is a financial death sentence.

I maintain that if you find a good carrier that pays decent percentage of the load line haul plus accessorials that you can buy any truck you want(common sence applied), including a "dying breed" long nose Pete.

[GMAN]

The pay you receive from a carrier is critical, but saving where you can is like putting money back in your pocket. It is much like some of the fuel discounts offered by many of the larger carriers. The money you save can be put back in your pocket. I don't care what someone else drives. I don't have to pay for the fuel. However, when rates are down and more sparse, any money you can save could make the difference between making money and losing your shirt. Personally, I like Peterbilt. I hope they continue making the hoods. I don't know if I will ever buy another one or not, but I still enjoy looking at them. As I believe I have previously stated, I have friends who won't drive anything else, even if it means that it will cost them more to run them due to the typically lower fuel economy. If I got a good enough deal in a Pete, I might consider buying another one. But at this point, I am not sure if I will buy any more trucks. I may just continue to repair the ones that I have. I am not that keen on sticking with any brand. I just look for something that meets my needs and then shop for the best buy.

[chris1]

I have two teams that run the same round each week,just different days. One spends approx 750-800 more on fuel,when fuel was up it was 1150-1200. They say they will not buy another truck or trailer. 50 rounds a year 40,000.00. Guess the different kinds of truck.

[RostyC]

I have two teams that run the same round each week,just different days. One spends approx 750-800 more on fuel,when fuel was up it was 1150-1200. They say they will not buy another truck or trailer. 50 rounds a year 40,000.00. Guess the different kinds of truck.

I'm thinking this is a trick question but.....................
That's a lot of difference in fuel. I'm wondering the difference in there driving habits as well.
Pete 379 (the less efficient) big cat and driver that won't keep his foot out of it.
volvo (small one) and a more efficient driver.

am I close?

[jiptwoo]

I'm not so sure about that point of---keeping your foot out of it. I ran produce for an o/o and I ran two different trucks the same way- 80 mph everywhere even ca. Both trucks had 500hp 13spd geared the same. The pete 379 500 cat, the century shaker a 500 come a long, the shaker had the best fuel milage in the fleet of petes and w900's. No one ran their truck harder than me, yet I have to say the reason for me having the best fuel mileage is the more aero dynamic truck, because I ran them all the same---balls out.

[GMAN]

I ran produce for an o/o and I ran two different trucks the same way- 80 mph everywhere even ca.


I can't believe you still have a CDL if you drove 80 mph all the time in CA.

[BoyNextDoor]

I'm not so sure about that point of---keeping your foot out of it. I ran produce for an o/o and I ran two different trucks the same way- 80 mph everywhere even ca. Both trucks had 500hp 13spd geared the same. The pete 379 500 cat, the century shaker a 500 come a long, the shaker had the best fuel milage in the fleet of petes and w900's. No one ran their truck harder than me, yet I have to say the reason for me having the best fuel mileage is the more aero dynamic truck, because I ran them all the same---balls out.

billy big rig, eh? lol

[jiptwoo]

No wise guy, they call me knucklehead. My post goes to saying about speed and aero dynamics or could you not figger that out.

[BoyNextDoor]

I'm not so sure about that point of---keeping your foot out of it. I ran produce for an o/o and I ran two different trucks the same way- 80 mph everywhere even ca. Both trucks had 500hp 13spd geared the same. The pete 379 500 cat, the century shaker a 500 come a long, the shaker had the best fuel milage in the fleet of petes and w900's. No one ran their truck harder than me, yet I have to say the reason for me having the best fuel mileage is the more aero dynamic truck, because I ran them all the same---balls out.

this was what i was referring to, not the aerodynamics... I do agree with you that aero trucks get better mileage than non-aero ones...

[Fuzeme]

Yeah, we are leased on to a 100% owner operator company, who provide good miles, and 100% of the fuel surcharge. No I'm not going to US Express program, trucks too expensive, and they only pay 29% of the fuel surcharge. My current truck is being pulled out of the fleet, and I will be getting an 05 KW T 600, Cat powered, with a 13 speed. Once our trucks make it to the million mile mark, he pulls them, and auctions them off.
The driver that had this KW kept it really nice, and the only reason he is coming out of it is because he's getting a brand new truck. I think the Cat is a 475, and he did say he was able to get fairly decent fuel mileage out of it, and it didn't give him hardly any trouble, so as soon as his truck comes in, which will be Monday, I'll be moving into my KW. If it turns out to be a great truck, I'll L/P it for a year, and then it's mine free and clear.

Be back soon, going from Amarillo TX to Philly PA.

[chris1]

I'm thinking this is a trick question but.....................
That's a lot of difference in fuel. I'm wondering the difference in there driving habits as well.
Pete 379 (the less efficient) big cat and driver that won't keep his foot out of it.
volvo (small one) and a more efficient driver.

am I close?
1999,475hp,cat,no apu,spread axle,379
2009,550hp,cummins,apu,closed tandem,aerodynamic
both have same trans and rearends
Both run mainly in 75mph states,at best 8-10 hours of idle time. When their truck was down for repairs they rented one of mine for a round and the fuel was comparable to the other team so i don't think it's the difference in drivers. A couple of other non aero,newer trucks doing the same routes fall in-between for mileage. I think aerodynamics play a large roll in van/reefer operations. Flatbeds a lot is lost in the trailer configuration.

[solo379]

With high speed, you'll get a high difference between "aero" and "classic". If you run "double nickel", it will be hardly noticeable. At 50mph, rolling resistance, takes more power, than air resistance. I'm averaging low 7Th with my Cat powered 2005 T6, pulling dry box mostly between OH and NE region, a lot of hills, lights and congestion's, but mostly with the light loads. I run between 60-65mph, when it rolls, I'll let it roll, on a rare occasions, I'll speed up(to pass, to get out of the crowd...) Could i run 80? I sure could, truck is not governed, but it's gonna cost me about 1 mph, with classic design, probably 1.5-2mph. At 120 000 miles it's around 15 grand difference, at current fuel prices. I have a much better use for that money, but that's a personal choice.

[GMAN]

Driving habits have a lot to do with fuel mileage. You can have two identical trucks with the same load and they will most likely get different fuel mileage. The only difference is in the drivers. I am like you, I can find a much better use for $15,000 than putting it in the fuel tank. :thumbsup:

[jiptwoo]

Gman, I'll tell you the truth, that after 10yrs hauling produce ca. to hunts, and 5 ca. to albuquerque I still have a clean mvr and license---no tickets. I got more log book tickets and 8 hr shutdowns than anything else. The 3 or 4 speeding tickets I received I paid immediately like all tickets and they have never showed up on my license. I remember a driver laughed at me for having 2 cb's and 3 birdogs I passed him 5 mi. later and smoky had him on the side as I rode "bye bye". You cannot go peddeling around ca. at highspeed in the blind. You have to have some sense, I'm not a total idiot, a little but not total. There are and have always been produce haulers like me, and we do not go truckstop to truckstop. More like, we drive like we always have from back in the days till now; 1000 miles a day. As long as they don't check my log book at the gallup port and I mean, run my miles, I consider myself home free. Before they started running miles it was a joke, just start a new log everyday, but for the last 3 yrs they have me sweating sometimes, I'm glad I only run to n.m. these days. The 3 days to hunts. pt. solo are over. An advertiser on this site had 150 o/o's running produce ca. to ny, beantown, hartsford 2 days for a team and 3 days for a solo driver and if you could not do that you did not haul for them. I ran for them for ten years. O/o's built them and now they do not need o/o's.

[GMAN]

Jiptwoo, I would say that you have been extremely lucky. States are really cracking down, especially on logs. I am a little surprised that your former carrier isn't pushing for more owner operators. Some of the largest carriers are pushing for more owner operators and reducing their company drivers. Carriers are increasingly being held responsible for the actions of their drivers. That is forcing some of them to change their ways.