Got 2nd Over weight ticket this year...ouch $$$$

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Picked up a shag at Pepsi in Omaha ,NE going to Grand Island , NE I weighed the load about 9 miles from pick up in route at the Sapp Bros at EXit 440 I-80 in Omaha ...it scaled at roughly


12,100
35,250
32,650

Obviously I needed to slide the tandems forward atleast 5 holes at 250lbs per hole to shift the minumim of 1250 to be axle legal ...so upon inspection of my tandems I noted I only had 5 holes of adjustment left ,and slid the tandems up those 5 holes ,and on down the road I went...UNTIL I hit the scales at MM 415 I-80 comming into Lincoln , Where the DOT had me scaled at roughly

11, 500
31,800
35,950


Well obviously I'm over on the trailer ,and it's over the 5% they allow you to be and still let you correct it without a ticket if able make legaL , So I made my donation to the state of Nebrask in the Amount of $120.00 .


What Pi$$ed me off is I showed the officer my scale ticket from sapp bros and told him I slid the tandems forward 5 holes to correct the axle weight , and he said those scale receipts don't matter ....? what kills me is that had I not weighed the load my axle weights would have been off but within in the 5% rule allowed for correction without fine .

[golfhobo]

Not sure what kind of trailer you pull, but I was taught.... and always figured 400 per hole on a trailer, 250 on a double pronged 5th wheel.

[bentstrider]

Sounds like the type of mess those knuckleheads at Wolfe Trucking in Van Nuys, CA liked to pull.
Pick up a purposely overloaded bottled water load from Poland, ME and take it down into Long Island.

Mom'n'Pops.

[allan5oh]

It always depends on the spacing of the holes.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Not sure what kind of trailer you pull, but I was taught.... and always figured 400 per hole on a trailer, 250 on a double pronged 5th wheel.



Our trailers like most trailers only move about 250lbs per hole my tractor like most tractors move about 500lbs per slot on the 5th wheel ...Some are different ,and it just depends on the gap between slots on the 5th wheel or trailer as to how much weight gets moved per slot , but the trailer I had was the standard 250lb per hole , and according to the scale ticket i got at sapp bros i should have been legal after sliding the tandems 5 holes forward , but obviously that ticket was not correct , and therefore my adjustments were not either .

[Sabine]

The scale may have been correct, but your assessment of how much weight got adjusted per hole wasn't. I am with Hobo, we have trailers where it only adjusts about 250 and others where it is about 400. Always reweigh when it is so close.

And I have NEVER had a truck where it was more than 250 a hole on the 5th wheel.

[Kevin0915]

I've picked up trailers where the holes for the tandems are about a foot apart, and then you have your normal spacing of about 4-5 in. But what i dont understand is how you're mad at the NE DOT for giving you the ticket? You knew you were overweight the first time, adjusted the tandems, but didn't rescale the load. HAD YOU DONE THAT, you'd have seen you slid them too far, and then could have adjusted. Not spending the $1 to reweigh ended up costing you $120.

also something i do, is i take a piece of chalk, mark the original hole i'm in, just to be sure i know where i'm adjusting from. I've on occasion forgot the chalk, and end up thinking i slid the tandems 3-4 holes, when i really slid them 7 or 8. (granted in your case you only had 5 holes to work with anyway). Something else i've got, one of those 'stoppers' i picked up from a Swift reefer trailer when i was on my mentor's truck. stick it in the hole in front of the hole you want to stop at, and its error free.) best 5 finger discount i've ever invested in. =)

[AC120]

"250 lbs." "400 lbs." per hole. There is NO formula. By your numbers, you shifted 660 lbs. per hole.

It depends on how the weight is distributed inside the trailer. If you slide a tandem under an empty trailer, you'll get so many lbs. per hole. Slide the tandem--same trailer--under 46,000 lbs and you'll get different numbers. Concentrate 45,000 lbs. into the first 35 feet of a 53 (hello, Budweiser!) -- you'll never legal it.

And, erm, you didn't reweigh after you slid the tandem?

[mike3fan]

I've gotta agree with Kev on this one, $1 to save the fine seems like a good deal to me. No sense in assuming that a 5 hole adjustment made it correct, too easy to confirm with a re-weigh. Those scales are not certified on axle weights anyhow only on gross, so you only get a general idea anyway.

[Orangetxguy]

I've gotta agree with Kev on this one, $1 to save the fine seems like a good deal to me. No sense in assuming that a 5 hole adjustment made it correct, too easy to confirm with a re-weigh. Those scales are not certified on axle weights anyhow only on gross, so you only get a general idea anyway.


Dammit Boy!! Sometimes Kev just pops off at the right time, with the right idea and information!! Bless his heart! :lol:

Yup Big J....you hosed yerself to the tune of $120. But...the state of Nebraska thanks you greatly ....... I am sure!!

Does Sapp Bros. use "CAT" or "Interstate" scales?? I do not trust "Interstate" scales.

[Musicman]

"250 lbs." "400 lbs." per hole. There is NO formula. By your numbers, you shifted 660 lbs. per hole.

It depends on how the weight is distributed inside the trailer. If you slide a tandem under an empty trailer, you'll get so many lbs. per hole. Slide the tandem--same trailer--under 46,000 lbs and you'll get different numbers. Concentrate 45,000 lbs. into the first 35 feet of a 53 (hello, Budweiser!) -- you'll never legal it.

And, erm, you didn't reweigh after you slid the tandem?

Finally, somebody gets it right... thank you! Yes, you can make a generalization about 250lbs or 400lbs per hole, and that is enough MUCH of the time, but NOT always. It all depends on how the load is loaded. What if it just happens that 10k of the weight is concentrated right over the tandems? One hole will have a much larger effect than if there is only 2k lbs in that same spot. Of course the spacing of the holes also plays a big part. And while I don’t scale a load that I know is under 42k lbs (I’m pretty good at using my tractor air bag pressure gauge), I would have definitely have paid the extra couple of bucks to re-weigh the load and save the $120 overweight ticket.

[AC120]

Finally, somebody gets it right... thank you! Yes, you can make a generalization about 250lbs or 400lbs per hole, and that is enough MUCH of the time, but NOT always. It all depends on how the load is loaded. What if it just happens that 10k of the weight is concentrated right over the tandems? One hole will have a much larger effect than if there is only 2k lbs in that same spot. Of course the spacing of the holes also plays a big part. And while I don’t scale a load that I know is under 42k lbs (I’m pretty good at using my tractor air bag pressure gauge), I would have definitely have paid the extra couple of bucks to re-weigh the load and save the $120 overweight ticket.

Thank ya, Musicman! :D I agree 100% with everything you said!

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Finally, somebody gets it right... thank you! Yes, you can make a generalization about 250lbs or 400lbs per hole, and that is enough MUCH of the time, but NOT always. It all depends on how the load is loaded. What if it just happens that 10k of the weight is concentrated right over the tandems? One hole will have a much larger effect than if there is only 2k lbs in that same spot. Of course the spacing of the holes also plays a big part. And while I don’t scale a load that I know is under 42k lbs (I’m pretty good at using my tractor air bag pressure gauge), I would have definitely have paid the extra couple of bucks to re-weigh the load and save the $120 overweight ticket.


Nope it seems most on here don't get it...you can load the trailer any way you want that only determines where the weight is distributed if it will be legal or can be made legal ...for example if you scale a load that weighs like this


12000
35000
33000


it don't matter how it's stacked staggered or what not inside this is the weight on your axles ,and when you slide your tandems it moves the fulcrum a given number of inches per hole the bigger the distance between holes the more weight moved per hole , so with the axle weights i just listed above with a typical trailer 4 holes moves about 1000lbs everytime ,and it don't matter how it's loaded you will move 1000lbs as you will move 250lbs per hole between trailer and drives...Man it seems 99% that responded ...DO NOT ...know how a fulcrum works and therfore don't understand what happend when sliding a tabdem or the fifth wheel , and have an idea that some magic is involved ...LOL so if you're moving more than roughly 250lbs per hole you're trailer will have very large gaps between the slots unlike most trailers ...My truck/trailer is at the T?A in Wheatridge ,Colorado if any of you are in the area I'll gladly prove you I"M right and the other side of the fence is dense in the skull .


As for the reweigh saving me a ticket the sapp bross has a certified scale I should not need a reweigh after weighing and observing where my weights were , but even if I did why would this have saved me a ticket since the scale was notcorrect the first time why would it decide to start accurately weighing the second ?


And I could not move 2 many holes forward the trailer only had 5 holes left for forward slide , so 1250lbs is all I could move ...pretty much fool proof ...unless you're weighing on a POS scale , But that 1250 based on the weights given by sapp bros scale would have been legal .


I guess my point is you can still get a weight ticket even if you weigh your load if the scale you weigh it on is ...FU@#ED .

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

On a side not I had a driver at current company tell me he had a drive weight of 36,000lbs and he slide the tandems all the way up and on his re-weigh it still weighed 36,00 lbs...BULL SH#T ...I've had loads that were heavy and only loaded in the first half of the trailer , and while it could not be made to axle out legal it still moved the 250lbs per hole for the given number of holes I slid it ...And Like I said Im willing to meet you when you roll through the Denver area to prove ..ME RIGHT ...LOL ...I'll pay for the scale tickets , but if I'm right ,And you are arguing that I'm wrong you will owe me the scale money back ,because you argued out of ignorance .

I'll take any one comming through Denver in the next 4 days with a load ,and pay for you to weigh it then you can move it as mony holes as you want and I guarantee every time I can accurately give the weights you get on your reweigh just with simple math based on the what weight gets moved per hole ...Come on "experts" put your money where your mouth is...WINK

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

"250 lbs." "400 lbs." per hole. There is NO formula. By your numbers, you shifted 660 lbs. per hole.

It depends on how the weight is distributed inside the trailer. If you slide a tandem under an empty trailer, you'll get so many lbs. per hole. Slide the tandem--same trailer--under 46,000 lbs and you'll get different numbers. Concentrate 45,000 lbs. into the first 35 feet of a 53 (hello, Budweiser!) -- you'll never legal it.

And, erm, you didn't reweigh after you slid the tandem?


NO ***** ...This proves your point ...HOW ? obviously if you have more weight on an axle than you have adjustment for you are not going to get it legal , But you will still observe about 250 lbs of weight shift on the axles per hole you slide it for the adjustment you do have ....More if you have the trailers with big gap slots I've never pulled any of those in 4 years , so If I got one I would have to reweigh it to see how much it was doing per hole ,but only once .


And my adjustments were based on the weights the scale popped out , which consisted of 5 holes forward...the only 5 holes left to move forward , so it was not possibe to over slide the trailer ...After my ticket I stopped in YORK , NE and reweighed load to see what it weighed on a cat scale and I got exactly what the DOT scale showed , and then I adjusted it based on my 250lbs per hole and reweighed it just for giggles and my 250lbs per hole put me legal moving exactly what you can expect to move with 5 holes....Conclusion SAPP bROS scale was not correct , SO it would not matter if I weighed it 100X the scale is in need of calibration ,and will be off every weigh not just the first...WINK .

[jagerbomber3.0]

Nope it seems most on here don't get it...you can load the trailer any way you want that only determines where the weight is distributed if it will be legal or can be made legal ...for example if you scale a load that weighs like this


12000
35000
33000


it don't matter how it's stacked staggered or what not inside this is the weight on your axles ,and when you slide your tandems it moves the fulcrum a given number of inches per hole the bigger the distance between holes the more weight moved per hole , so with the axle weights i just listed above with a typical trailer 4 holes moves about 1000lbs everytime ,and it don't matter how it's loaded you will move 1000lbs as you will move 250lbs per hole between trailer and drives...Man it seems 99% that responded ...DO NOT ...know how a fulcrum works and therfore don't understand what happend when sliding a tabdem or the fifth wheel , and have an idea that some magic is involved ...LOL so if you're moving more than roughly 250lbs per hole you're trailer will have very large gaps between the slots unlike most trailers ...My truck/trailer is at the T?A in Wheatridge ,Colorado if any of you are in the area I'll gladly prove you I"M right and the other side of the fence is dense in the skull .


As for the reweigh saving me a ticket the sapp bross has a certified scale I should not need a reweigh after weighing and observing where my weights were , but even if I did why would this have saved me a ticket since the scale was notcorrect the first time why would it decide to start accurately weighing the second ?


And I could not move 2 many holes forward the trailer only had 5 holes left for forward slide , so 1250lbs is all I could move ...pretty much fool proof ...unless you're weighing on a POS scale , But that 1250 based on the weights given by sapp bros scale would have been legal .


I guess my point is you can still get a weight ticket even if you weigh your load if the scale you weigh it on is ...FU@#ED .

Very amazing that you tell everyone else that they are wrong yet you yourself are the one that came out wrong in the end. Saying you dont need a re-weigh because you understand fulcrums and know exactly where your weight went after you slid is one of the absolute most asinine things i have ever read on here. You have topped Kevin's tales in many ways on this one. And yes,for once Kevin is spot on in what he is saying in this one.
I am just completely dumbfounded by your reply to everyone on this. And the fact that you say this is your second one in a year makes it even more laughable that you tell everyone else they dont know how it works and that only you have it figured out and know how it works.

[Mr. Ford95]

Them Nebraska boys were probably laughing their hides off when you finally left. They got you overweight, your produce a certified scale ticket that shows your overweight and try to tell them your all good.........that's friggin funny right there. If you had checked your weight at least once more, you'd be $118-119 richer. You would have found you had made an error in your sliding. No matter who's right or wrong in how the weight changes when sliding everything, you still should always re-weigh no matter how good you believe you are at doing it unless of course your a SuperTrucker.

[allan5oh]

Again... spacing of the holes...

[Kevin0915]

Okay...actually what does a fulcrum have to do with sliding the tandems?? A fulcrum is a support about which a lever turns.....there is nothing 'turning' on tandems (aside from the wheels). So understanding what a fulcrum is, Ethan Hunt, really dont matter when sliding tandems. And he actually wouldn't be $119 'richer', he'd be $1 moore poor since thats what he should have spent to re-weigh the rig. getting a ticket, puts you in a hole.

[Rev.Vassago]

NO ***** ...This proves your point ...HOW ? obviously if you have more weight on an axle than you have adjustment for you are not going to get it legal , But you will still observe about 250 lbs of weight shift on the axles per hole you slide it for the adjustment you do have ....More if you have the trailers with big gap slots I've never pulled any of those in 4 years , so If I got one I would have to reweigh it to see how much it was doing per hole ,but only once .


Seriously - whoever told you that trailer tandems are 250 lbs per hole was smoking a fat doobie. 400 - 600 per hole, depending on how the weight is laid out in the trailer. The scale wasn't wrong - you were.

Besides, even if the scale WAS wrong, reweighing it would have shown how much weight you moved, plus it would have given you the ammunition you needed to fight the citation. But you didn't even bother to do that, making yourself extra wrong.

[AC120]

Whoa, Big Jeep.

After two overweight tickets isn’t it time to rethink your expensive method? Forget “250 lbs. per hole” and overthinking fulcrums. Scale each load as it is not as you think it should be. Then (maybe) you won’t get a third overweight ticket.

Again, there is no "standard" 250 lbs. per hole when you haul different loads. Dude, you really need to learn this stuff.

[Mr. Ford95]

And he actually wouldn't be $119 'richer', he'd be $1 moore poor since thats what he should have spent to re-weigh the rig. getting a ticket, puts you in a hole.


Kev, he had to pay $120 in fines, had he spent that extra $1, he wouldn't have had to pay that $120 fine, so he would have $119 still in his pocket, hence richer than he currently is.

[Kevin0915]

Kev, he had to pay $120 in fines, had he spent that extra $1, he wouldn't have had to pay that $120 fine, so he would have $119 still in his pocket, hence richer than he currently is.
keywords there 'than he currently is'. =)

[Rev.Vassago]

it don't matter how it's stacked staggered or what not inside this is the weight on your axles ,and when you slide your tandems it moves the fulcrum a given number of inches per hole the bigger the distance between holes the more weight moved per hole , so with the axle weights i just listed above with a typical trailer 4 holes moves about 1000lbs everytime ,and it don't matter how it's loaded you will move 1000lbs as you will move 250lbs per hole between trailer and drives...Man it seems 99% that responded ...DO NOT ...know how a fulcrum works and therfore don't understand what happend when sliding a tabdem or the fifth wheel , and have an idea that some magic is involved ...LOL so if you're moving more than roughly 250lbs per hole you're trailer will have very large gaps between the slots unlike most trailers ...My truck/trailer is at the T?A in Wheatridge ,Colorado if any of you are in the area I'll gladly prove you I"M right and the other side of the fence is dense in the skull .

I guess that time that the shipper had me 6000 lbs over on my drives, and I slid my tandems up all the way (12 holes) and it took a whopping 300 lbs off my drives, the load must not have understood these magic fulcrums.

[Fredog]

SOMEONE doesnt get it, but it's not us

[jonp]

Okay...actually what does a fulcrum have to do with sliding the tandems?? A fulcrum is a support about which a lever turns.....there is nothing 'turning' on tandems (aside from the wheels). So understanding what a fulcrum is, Ethan Hunt, really dont matter when sliding tandems. And he actually wouldn't be $119 'richer', he'd be $1 moore poor since thats what he should have spent to re-weigh the rig. getting a ticket, puts you in a hole.

No. A fulcrum is the pivot on which a lever MOVES which is Entirely different and has everything to do with shifting weight. The tandems do not move as the fulcrum is stationary. you move the weight by moving the lever which is the trailer. Look at it this way. When you "shift your tandems" to legal a load your tandems or the pivot stays in the same place (if your brakes work) what you are actualy moving back and forth is the trailer over it.
You are correct on the $1. Why someone would go to the bother of weighing a load then not spend a buck on a re-weigh after shifting dosnt make any sense to me.

[JR OTR]

Rather than use any fixed amount of weight moved per hole, do what my trainer taught me: use *roughly* 1% of the cargo weight per hole.

Thus, 40,000 lbs cargo is roughly 400 lbs per hole.

30,000 lbs cargo is roughly 300 lbs per hole.

Obviously, some loads are very nose (or tail) heavy, or you might have a trailer with tandem holes spaced closer together. On those, think of three of the narrower holes as two of the "big" ones and you'll be very close to where you need to be.

Rescaling close ones never hurts either, lol.

Jim

[Kevin0915]

No. A fulcrum is the pivot on which a lever MOVES which is Entirely different and has everything to do with shifting weight. The tandems do not move as the fulcrum is stationary. you move the weight by moving the lever which is the trailer. Look at it this way. When you "shift your tandems" to legal a load your tandems or the pivot stays in the same place (if your brakes work) what you are actualy moving back and forth is the trailer over it.
You are correct on the $1. Why someone would go to the bother of weighing a load then not spend a buck on a re-weigh after shifting dosnt make any sense to me.

so in my 3 yrs of architecture, i didn't learn anything.......thank you for setting me straight. <eyes roll>

no matter how i discuss this, you'll think i'm wrong...but that is okay.

[Malaki86]

Well, it was YOUR math (and the not doing a reweigh) that cost YOU the ticket, so...

[Scottt]

After reading this last night I decided to see how close I could balance my load. I knew I was legal by looking at my pressure gauge and my Rite Weigh on the trailer.

I invested $11 for the sake of arguement

When I went across the scales the first time I had 30,190lbs on the drives and 32,960lbs on the tandems.

I moved the tandems back 1 hole and reweighed and it moved 362lbs to the drives. So I moved the tandems back 4 more holes and the 362lbs per hole stayed pretty consistant when I reweighed again.

My trailer is a 2007 Vanguard 53' dry van

[Kevin0915]

After reading this last night I decided to see how close I could balance my load. I knew I was legal by looking at my pressure gauge and my Rite Weigh on the trailer.

I invested $11 for the sake of arguement

When I went across the scales the first time I had 30,190lbs on the drives and 32,960lbs on the tandems.

I moved the tandems back 1 hole and reweighed and it moved 362lbs to the drives. So I moved the tandems back 4 more holes and the 362lbs per hole stayed pretty consistant when I reweighed again.

My trailer is a 2007 Vanguard 53' dry van

JR OTR had a pretty good hypothysis. Think i will try this sometime, one with a 30k load and doing what you did Scott, spend $11 and weigh 3 times, then do the same thing with a 45k load.

[SickRick]

Okay...actually what does a fulcrum have to do with sliding the tandems?? A fulcrum is a support about which a lever turns.....there is nothing 'turning' on tandems (aside from the wheels). So understanding what a fulcrum is, Ethan Hunt, really dont matter when sliding tandems. And he actually wouldn't be $119 'richer', he'd be $1 moore poor since thats what he should have spent to re-weigh the rig. getting a ticket, puts you in a hole.

Dude, you were RIGHT ON with your first post.

Ever hear the expression - "QUIT WHILE YOU'RE AHEAD"?

sigh - one step forward - two steps BACK...

Rick

[mike3fan]

JR OTR had a pretty good hypothysis. Think i will try this sometime, one with a 30k load and doing what you did Scott, spend $11 and weigh 3 times, then do the same thing with a 45k load.

How will you have any time to do this? Won't you be behind schedule because of all the time you wasted aligning the trailers so they're all straight at the drop lot?



p.s: nice try on the sig line, but it just makes you look foolish and defintely unfunny. Seems more like a personal attack then quoting something someone said.

[Musicman]

I'll not get into discussions about fulcrums and levers and such. All I can say is that I might not be qualified as an "old hand" just yet, but in 12 years and close to two million miles on the road, I have never gotten on overweight ticket I did not intend to get. I can also say that in my experience pulling all manner of reefers, boxes, enclosed auto transports, and a few tanks and flats in those 12 years, I have found that there is no absolute when it comes to how much weight is transferred from one set of axles to another by moving the trailer axles one hole. It usually ends up being between 250 and 400 lbs, but it has been less at times and more on a few other occasions.

I have never weighed at a Sapp Brothers scale, so I have no way to comment on their reliability; but I do know that if you’d have had a CAT scale ticket that shows you are legal, the boys at the NE scale would have had to think twice about writing you a ticket in the first place, and if the CAT scale turned out to be inaccurate, you’d not have had to pay the fine… CAT would have done so for you. I also know that if I was THAT close to being over axle weight, I’d have shifted 1000 lbs to my steers. In fact, I keep my steers loaded to about 12,500 lbs all the time, in part to make it a little easier to get a heavy load legal and in part to keep my trailer a little closer to the tractor in an effort to improve fuel economy.

Perhaps your experiences have been more extensive or different from mine. If so, and if you are happy with the results you are yielding by doing things the way you have been, then stick with it. I know I am happy with the results yielded by my way of doing things and thus will not change.

[mike3fan]

but I do know that if you’d have had a CAT scale ticket that shows you are legal, the boys at the NE scale would have had to think twice about writing you a ticket in the first place, and if the CAT scale turned out to be inaccurate, you’d not have had to pay the fine… CAT would have done so for you..




CAT scale only certifies the gross weight, they would not have done anything for being over on the axle weight.

[Musicman]

CAT scale only certifies the gross weight, they would not have done anything for being over on the axle weight.

I might not be an expert on that since it's never been an issue with me. If you say so, I can't disagree.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Seriously - whoever told you that trailer tandems are 250 lbs per hole was smoking a fat doobie. 400 - 600 per hole, depending on how the weight is laid out in the trailer. The scale wasn't wrong - you were.

Besides, even if the scale WAS wrong, reweighing it would have shown how much weight you moved, plus it would have given you the ammunition you needed to fight the citation. But you didn't even bother to do that, making yourself extra wrong.


Put your money where your mouth is ... I weighed every load I 've ever had except 1 and that 1 cost me some cash , But during my first year of driving I weighed every load and reweighed every load ,and there was no magic any of those times it was simple if if I moved the tandems I moved 250lbs for every hole I slid them . If you're moving 400-600 lbs per hole you have an odd trailer not like one used at Werner or most big companies as youbwould only have a few holes of adjustment that move big numbers per hole unlike the trailers that have around 20+ holes and allow a finer tuned adjustment .


Now After I got my ticket from the DOT I stopped by the PETRO in York Nebraska and Reweighed it on a Cat scale ,and came up with the numbers the DOT had on their scale , And Decided to get it axle legal eventhough I was not going to cross another scale , and as usual after sliding my tandems a few holes based on the typical 250lbs per hole I reweighed and was legal ....SO YES IT WAS THE SCALE AT SAPP BROS THAT WAS OFF ,And it cost me $120.00 .


Now Like I said I'll gladly meet you to prove you wrong ...I like doing that with people in this industry .

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Whoa, Big Jeep.

After two overweight tickets isn’t it time to rethink your expensive method? Forget “250 lbs. per hole” and overthinking fulcrums. Scale each load as it is not as you think it should be. Then (maybe) you won’t get a third overweight ticket.

Again, there is no "standard" 250 lbs. per hole when you haul different loads. Dude, you really need to learn this stuff.



My first overweight was due to not weighing the load ,and I was overgross at 84,500lbs this was not a error in sliding tandems it was simply me being lazy and never weighing the load , And yes on the typical trailer you will move 250lbs per hole when you slide the tandems ...like I said I'll gladly prove this day in and day out on my home time if anyone on here who knows better is in the Denver area ...Wink ...I think you might need to do some learning , And like I said anyone on here passing through Denver who wants it proved to them that the typical trailer shifts 250lbs per hole when slid I'll gladly meet you at any truck stop in the Denver area , and I will pay for every scale ticket , and you will owe me a public description on CAD of what took place on the scale when weighed and re-weighed ...Or do we want to just keep it on CAD where you can't be proved wrong ?

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Kev, he had to pay $120 in fines, had he spent that extra $1, he wouldn't have had to pay that $120 fine, so he would have $119 still in his pocket, hence richer than he currently is.


No way to say what would have been the outcome since the scale was not correct , As I stated I reweighed the load on a cat scale in York,NE after getting my ticket ,and readjusted it about 8 holes...2000lbs and RE-Weighed it and was good to go as expected ...Like I said the scale at sapp bros was off , And since it was off no weights obtained from it can be used as measurement to adjust the load be it 1st weigh 2nd ,3rd ...and so on .

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

After reading this last night I decided to see how close I could balance my load. I knew I was legal by looking at my pressure gauge and my Rite Weigh on the trailer.

I invested $11 for the sake of arguement

When I went across the scales the first time I had 30,190lbs on the drives and 32,960lbs on the tandems.

I moved the tandems back 1 hole and reweighed and it moved 362lbs to the drives. So I moved the tandems back 4 more holes and the 362lbs per hole stayed pretty consistant when I reweighed again.

My trailer is a 2007 Vanguard 53' dry van


Yep it will be consistant per hole , and the weight moved per hole depends on the space between the holes the bigger the space the more the weight moved per hole ...the trailer I had on the pepsi load is just like the wabash trailers at Werner and is about 250lbs per hole ...your trailer has larger gaps between holes than the wabash I had so it is more per hole than 250 . What the peanut gallery is failing to read is that i reweighed this load after getting a ticket and readjusted the load based at ...250lbs...per hole and was good 2 go , and that the weights given to me by the sapp brois scale was just wrong , and since the scale was wrong even a re-weigh would be wrong on that scale .

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Very amazing that you tell everyone else that they are wrong yet you yourself are the one that came out wrong in the end. Saying you dont need a re-weigh because you understand fulcrums and know exactly where your weight went after you slid is one of the absolute most asinine things i have ever read on here. You have topped Kevin's tales in many ways on this one. And yes,for once Kevin is spot on in what he is saying in this one.
I am just completely dumbfounded by your reply to everyone on this. And the fact that you say this is your second one in a year makes it even more laughable that you tell everyone else they dont know how it works and that only you have it figured out and know how it works.



I was not wrong the scale at sapp bros was wrong , and like I said I reweighed the load on a cat scale in York ,NE at the Petro after getting my dOT ticket and I readjusted the load at 250lbs per hole and reweighed it and as expected it was legal and I had shifted about 2000lbs for 8 holes moved ...And if a scale is not accurate what would a re-weigh accomplish besides a second inaccurate re-weigh ?

[TimberWolf]

Well Big J we all know the mile high air is going to help out your situation as everything is lighter in the Rockies....

Sapp Brothers just down the road from Quebec st, wow that brings back a memory of sitting in their parking lot back in the summer of 1981 right after graduation from high school waiting to buy an 8 ball from some chick we met the day before at a Mile High Stadium Sunday all day Concert. That was an experience even back then, Commerce City Dawg the Bounty hunter's old stommping ground..

Timberwolf

[Rev.Vassago]

I was not wrong the scale at sapp bros was wrong , and like I said I reweighed the load on a cat scale in York ,NE at the Petro after getting my dOT ticket and I readjusted the load at 250lbs per hole and reweighed it and as expected it was legal and I had shifted about 2000lbs for 8 holes moved ...

So you got nabbed at a scale, and they didn't make you adjust it there? Riiiiiiight.

And if a scale is not accurate what would a re-weigh accomplish besides a second inaccurate re-weigh ?

The owners of the scale would have paid your fine.

[mike3fan]

The owners of the scale would have paid your fine.

Only if over gross and he had a scale ticket showing he was under, axle weights are not certified because of the exact situation that happened.

I don't doubt that the Sapp scale was wrong on the axle, but if he didn't re-weigh it there we will never know for sure.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

So you got nabbed at a scale, and they didn't make you adjust it there? Riiiiiiight.



The owners of the scale would have paid your fine.


Nope the officer was going to have me readjust and pull around again ,but then decided to let me go without doing so , as they were doing recalibration on the scale and the guys were there waiting to start it , so he let me go without reweighing on their scale , wehich is also why i reweighed at the the Petro in YORK NE , as I thought maybe the dOT scale was off , But it was not it was the SAPP BROS scale .


It's not the money it was only $120.00 ,Whic in no way breaks the bank it was just that the DOT officer could see I weighed it and could have been decent enough to let me readust and roll on , Which is what they let you do if you're only 5% over axle or less ...I was 5.7 % over axled ...Heck he side stepped the rules for reweighing before I left because they were in a hurry to let the electrician get working on the scales

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Only if over gross and he had a scale ticket showing he was under, axle weights are not certified because of the exact situation that happened.

I don't doubt that the Sapp scale was wrong on the axle, but if he didn't re-weigh it there we will never know for sure.


I've got the same trailer I had that day in Omaha last week hooked to my tractor sitting at the T/A in Wheatridge ,CO right now ...The day I weighed at sapp bros I needed to shift 1250lbs to the trailer tandems ,and I only had 5 holes of forward slide left on the trailer , So it was not a case where the driver slid the tandems to far ,as there were only 5 holes to be had to slide ...fool proof...and this trailer only moves 250lbs per hole you slide it ... This 250lbs per hole can be demonstrated even with an empty box .


and how would a reweigh on a bad scale show you a correct weight on a second weigh or 3rd weigh ...please elaborate on this theory , because if a scale is not working right why would it decide to do right the second time or 3rd ...lol infact I probably would just end up back at pepsi having them readust the load for no reason as they would be using weights obtained from a scale needing work ...

I just know to go into Council Bluffs and use the scales at the T/A or Pilot ...both are Cat scales and Calibrated routinely .

[mike3fan]

and how would a reweigh on a bad scale show you a correct weight on a second weigh or 3rd weigh ...please elaborate on this theory , because if a scale is not working right why would it decide to do right the second time or 3rd


Is it possible that you got a bad weigh the first time? Has that ever happened, like weighing before the truck stops sloshing or hitting the scales too hard? I could care less, and you seem to have it all figured out. You got the ticket and you have to pay. No skin off my nose.

[Rev.Vassago]

and how would a reweigh on a bad scale show you a correct weight on a second weigh or 3rd weigh ...please elaborate on this theory , because if a scale is not working right why would it decide to do right the second time or 3rd ...lol infact I probably would just end up back at pepsi having them readust the load for no reason as they would be using weights obtained from a scale needing work ...

If the scale was off, it would still be off by the same amount upon the reweigh (unless they calibrated the scale between the first weigh and the reweigh). It would show you how much weight you actually moved. If only one section of the platform scale was off, then your gross weight would have drastically changed, and you would have known to take your truck elsewhere to have it scaled.

[boneebone]

Them Nebraska boys were probably laughing their hides off when you finally left. They got you overweight, your produce a certified scale ticket that shows your overweight and try to tell them your all good.........that's friggin funny right there. If you had checked your weight at least once more, you'd be $118-119 richer. You would have found you had made an error in your sliding. No matter who's right or wrong in how the weight changes when sliding everything, you still should always re-weigh no matter how good you believe you are at doing it unless of course your a SuperTrucker.


Yep or a StupidTrucker.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

If the scale was off, it would still be off by the same amount upon the reweigh (unless they calibrated the scale between the first weigh and the reweigh). It would show you how much weight you actually moved.


Well this trailer only moves 250lbs per slot so the scale would have shown me moving 1250lbs to the trailer . the load I pulled into denver from Phoenix with this trailer a few days later was 79,500lbs for Petsmart and Petsmart requires you to weigh the load and if not legal re-weigh with legal weights b4 leaving...well the trailer was 2500lbs over on drives ,SO I re-weighed after adjusting 250lbs per hole and as expected I moved 2500 lbs with 10 holes ... I have to agree that if I had re-weighed and had the physical ticket in hand with everything corrected showing legal axle weights on the 2nd weigh rather than just 1 ticket showing heavy drives before correction I might have a legal argument,but not having a ticket to show the correction leaves me open to critisism ...however the officer did not even look at the scale ticket and would not look at it when I attempted to show him ,as he said that ticket does not matter it's what his scale says ... this is where the 2nd ticket would allow legal argument in court ...But I don't own such a document . And since the weigh ticket does not go on my license in the state of NE I would have did what I did anyway which was paid the fine right at the scale house...Something many of those on here running their lips could not do without missing a ramen noodle meal that week...LOL

[Scottt]

Best investment I ever made was putting the Rite Weigh scale on my trailer. I can pull ahead a couple feet from the dock after getting loaded and check to see where I am on the weight.

It comes in handy in California with the 40' bridge law. Being I only go to California and back my tandems stay at 40' except for yesterday when I played at the scale to see how much weight moved when I slid the tandems back.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Is it possible that you got a bad weigh the first time? Has that ever happened, like weighing before the truck stops sloshing or hitting the scales too hard? I could care less, and you seem to have it all figured out. You got the ticket and you have to pay. No skin off my nose.


No this is just the first time I've had a scale give me inaccurate weights , And you're correct had i reweighed the load and had a ticket with axle weights showing legal...even if wrong due to the scale...I would have had an argument as I would have had a ticket showing legal axle weights even if wrong due to an inaccurate scale ... Now as far as the weight moved per hole that will always be roughly 250lbs per hole on the type of trailer I'm pulling with its hole spacing, and more if on a trailer with larger gaps in hole adsjustment inwhich case I would need a reweigh just to see what that trailer was moving per hole ...Now in the future I will always get a reweigh so I have a piece of paper with the corrected legal weights on paper not just my word ... however this does not mean you will get off at the scale ,but rather need to go to court to drop the ticket ,as I can tell you this the officer at the scalehouse did not even want to look at my scale ticket ,and just shuffled it out of his way without even looking at the ticket ,and said it does not matter what that pice of paper says it only matters what his scale says , So do not think a scale ticket means no fine at the scales ...wink

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Best investment I ever made was putting the Rite Weigh scale on my trailer. I can pull ahead a couple feet from the dock after getting loaded and check to see where I am on the weight.

It comes in handy in California with the 40' bridge law. Being I only go to California and back my tandems stay at 40' except for yesterday when I played at the scale to see how much weight moved when I slid the tandems back.


Is that a gauge on the air bags ?...We have Volvo trucks with bags on drives/steers , so I can get a guess as to what my drive/steer weights are ,but it's only a guess and requires very level ground or the the weights can be off a fair amount like a thousand or more pounds as the guage reads in PSI and that reading can be off by 5-10 npsi just on the uneven ground in the truck stop .

[Kevin0915]

Look..unless you scale the load, and re-adjust it then REWEIGH it to show a LEGAL ticket, CAT will tell you to go screw off. if you scale out, and your re-weigh ticket shows 12,500, 32,000 and 36,000....they will laugh at you.

You really think that telling them, "well i adjusted the tandems 9 holes forward, so i would be legal. It isnt 'legal' to them until you produce a valid, LEGAL ticket.

I only scale my load if i'm over 30k...other than that....i kee my 5th wheel one hole rear from dead center, and keep my tandems 5 holes from full forward, and i know i should be spot on. been driving almost a year now, and have yet to get a ticket................FOR BEING OVERWEIGHT. =)

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Look..unless you scale the load, and re-adjust it then REWEIGH it to show a LEGAL ticket, CAT will tell you to go screw off. if you scale out, and your re-weigh ticket shows 12,500, 32,000 and 36,000....they will laugh at you.

You really think that telling them, "well i adjusted the tandems 9 holes forward, so i would be legal. It isnt 'legal' to them until you produce a valid, LEGAL ticket.

I only scale my load if i'm over 30k...other than that....i kee my 5th wheel one hole rear from dead center, and keep my tandems 5 holes from full forward, and i know i should be spot on. been driving almost a year now, and have yet to get a ticket................FOR BEING OVERWEIGHT. =)


Now that last paragraph is recipe for an overweight fine since you never know how much you really got loaded with at a shipper just b/c the bills say 30k or less ,and if preloaded/sealed you have no idea where the load is concentrated in the box ... I did not get any weight fines either my first 3.5 years OTR ...wink

[Scottt]

Is that a gauge on the air bags ?...We have Volvo trucks with bags on drives/steers , so I can get a guess as to what my drive/steer weights are ,but it's only a guess and requires very level ground or the the weights can be off a fair amount like a thousand or more pounds as the guage reads in PSI and that reading can be off by 5-10 npsi just on the uneven ground in the truck stop .

Yeah I have the pressure gauge in the dash that measures in psi for the drives.

The Rite Weigh I have on my trailer measures in lbs. Yes you do have to have it on level ground with the trailer brakes off to get a accurate weight. Every couple of months I will scale a load and calibrate my Rite Weigh. It's easy to do, just turn a screw till you get the gauge to read the same as the scale ticket.

[Jumbo]

We had the guage in the dash that showed the weight in PSI and they just installed a new one that is reads actual weight in pounds on the drives. It is made by Right Weigh. Was with in 50 pounds on the drives right out of the box, And can be calibrated just like the one on your trailer.

[Orangetxguy]

:argue: :popcorn: :banana3: :deal:



:clap:



Good argument !!!!

[Kevin0915]

Now that last paragraph is recipe for an overweight fine since you never know how much you really got loaded with at a shipper just b/c the bills say 30k or less ,and if preloaded/sealed you have no idea where the load is concentrated in the box ... I did not get any weight fines either my first 3.5 years OTR ...wink

You can kinda tell if a trailer is nose heavy or tail heavy. If you've got a BOL that says 30k, and you feel like you're pulling the trailer with a flippin' building on it, more than likely you're over on your drives, and the load is fairly nose heavy. Slide your 5th wheel and you'll see a world of difference.

when all else fails, i put my 5th wheel one notch behind dead center, and my tandems 5 holes from full forward.

[Kevin0915]

No way to say what would have been the outcome since the scale was not correct , As I stated I reweighed the load on a cat scale in York,NE after getting my ticket ,and readjusted it about 8 holes...2000lbs and RE-Weighed it and was good to go as expected ...Like I said the scale at sapp bros was off , And since it was off no weights obtained from it can be used as measurement to adjust the load be it 1st weigh 2nd ,3rd ...and so on .

now all of a sudden the scale is wrong, and THATS the reason for the ticket ?? according to your OP, you said you were over on your drives, so you adjusted your tandems the 5 holes left you could adjust, and DID NOT RE-WEIGH THE LOAD cause you used the "250lb per hole" rule. ("...and on down the road I went...UNTIL I hit the scales at MM 415 I-80 comming into Lincoln...")

so where is Sapp Brothers scale wrong? Had you scaled it legal (from their scale) regardless if the scale was right or wrong, you'd have a legal leg to stand on, Ahab. Since you DIDN'T, you DON'T. Atleast with a legal ticket, then the DOT nails you for being overweight, you could go back to Sapp's and tell them their scale was not calibrated.

It is irrelevant that you stopped at a CAT scale in new york (or whever) and THEN got a legal ticket....DOT already nailed you....so its too late.

simple question here is, "Should you have re-weighed a heavy load after sliding your tandems?....yes or no?"

[Windwalker]

Our trailers like most trailers only move about 250lbs per hole my tractor like most tractors move about 500lbs per slot on the 5th wheel ...Some are different ,and it just depends on the gap between slots on the 5th wheel or trailer as to how much weight gets moved per slot , but the trailer I had was the standard 250lb per hole , and according to the scale ticket i got at sapp bros i should have been legal after sliding the tandems 5 holes forward , but obviously that ticket was not correct , and therefore my adjustments were not either .
This one varies widely with length of wheelbase. Before you take someone else's figure, check it yourself and go by that. Get into a different truck, check it for that truck. DO NOT DEPEND ON A RULE OF THUMB. Different makes of tractors are different too.

[Kevin0915]

I've got the same trailer I had that day in Omaha last week hooked to my tractor sitting at the T/A in Wheatridge ,CO right now ...The day I weighed at sapp bros I needed to shift 1250lbs to the trailer tandems ,and I only had 5 holes of forward slide left on the trailer , So it was not a case where the driver slid the tandems to far ,as there were only 5 holes to be had to slide ...fool proof...and this trailer only moves 250lbs per hole you slide it ... This 250lbs per hole can be demonstrated even with an empty box .


and how would a reweigh on a bad scale show you a correct weight on a second weigh or 3rd weigh ...please elaborate on this theory , because if a scale is not working right why would it decide to do right the second time or 3rd ...lol infact I probably would just end up back at pepsi having them readust the load for no reason as they would be using weights obtained from a scale needing work ...

I just know to go into Council Bluffs and use the scales at the T/A or Pilot ...both are Cat scales and Calibrated routinely .

ok....take out a 2x12, 4 ft long. put supports under it 6 in. from each end, then place 300 lbs in the middle 2 ft of the board. the suports both equally distribute the weight 50/50. Now take the same "load", and move it toward the two feet at the end of the board, leaving the supports exactly where they are. now you will have the support under the "load" bearing more of the weight than the other.

now pretend you were going to slide the supports in each of the setups. If you move the same support (the one not bearing as much of the load) the same distance, you will end up with a DIFFERENT weight adjustment simply because the position of the load on the plank.

so the 250lb per hole 'rule', is just a guide and should not be accepted as 'trucker law'.

[AC120]

Good argument !!!!


Yes. It has all the necessary elements, doesn't it? An OP's assertion of having been wronged. OP's claim that all the other posters are wrong. Snappy insults. A trucker's tale: "Y'all ain't gonna believe this. When I was at Sapps I only had five holes to slide, but by the time I got to the Petro I had eight!" It's even got fulcrums and its own theme song: "Please Come to Denver."

[AC120]

ok....take out a 2x12, 4 ft long. put supports under it 6 in. from each end, then place 300 lbs in the middle 2 ft of the board. the suports both equally distribute the weight 50/50. Now take the same "load", and move it toward the two feet at the end of the board, leaving the supports exactly where they are. now you will have the support under the "load" bearing more of the weight than the other.

now pretend you were going to slide the supports in each of the setups. If you move the same support (the one not bearing as much of the load) the same distance, you will end up with a DIFFERENT weight adjustment simply because the position of the load on the plank.

so the 250lb per hole 'rule', is just a guide and should not be accepted as 'trucker law'.

YOU STOLE MY EXAMPLE!!! :cheers:

[chris1]

Be glad they are not pilot's and use a "standard" for load distribution.
Where's CatalinaFlyer? He'll tell you all about that.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

For Kevins sake ...I'll clarify since he can't differentiate from one post to the next ,and seems to have things mixed up.


I stated in the OP that I weighed my load at SAPP BROS in OMAHA ,NE ex 440 I-80 and the weights from first weigh had me over on drives by 1250lbs ,and that I slid my tandems on that trailer 5 holes forward which on that trailer is roughly 1250lbs and that only 5 holes existed to slide forward ...I ...DID NOT ...ever claim to re-weigh this load at sapp bros or before I got ticketed comming into Lincoln at the scale house at mm 415 I-80 , NE .


What I did claim is that I adjusted my axles based on the weigh ticket obtained on the 1st weigh at SAPP BROS and that is why the load was over axled as that scale was off on that weigh ticket obtained at SAPP BROS , so I adjusted my axle weights based on a bad weigh ,which put me moving weight that did not need to be moved .


I then stated that after my ticket at the scale house that I re-weighed load at the PETRO IN YORK ,NE on a cat scale to see what was up , and that scale showed exactly what the DOT scale showed light drives and a heavy trailer ...about 1,750 lbs over on the trailer , So I moved the trailer tandems back about 8 holes ,and re-weighed load just to be certain before I blamed the SAPP BROS scale , and sure enough 8 holes moved 2000lbs back to the drives...AND LEGAL

So my conclusion based on the weigh and Re-weigh at the PETRO IN YORK ,NE was that the trailer was the typical trailer we haul moving 250lbs per hole , And that the weigh ticket I obtained at SAPP BROS in OMAHA ,NE was off giving me bad axle weights , Which had me adjusting weight to the trailer that did not need to be put there , and caused my over axle .

[AC120]

my conclusion based on the weigh and Re-weigh at the PETRO IN YORK ,NE was that the trailer was the typical trailer we haul moving 250lbs per hole , And that the weigh ticket I obtained at SAPP BROS in OMAHA ,NE was off giving me bad axle weights , Which had me adjusting weight to the trailer that did not need to be put there , and caused my over axle .

I understand what you're saying. But DOT's scale numbers were consistant with Sapp's scale numbers AND sliding the tandem forward--you added weight to the trailer and DOT's scale showed that. And DOT was recalibrating; they showed your gross at 79,250, while Sapps had you right at 80,000.

The only inconsistancy I can see--and it's not a big, name-calling deal, we just disagree about a small thing--is "250 lbs. per hole each and every time." My experience with heavy loads just doesn't support that.

So. If five holes forward gave you a 3,300 lb. shift (=660 lbs. per hole), then three holes forward would have shifted 1,980 lbs.

Safe trip.

[Kevin0915]

For Kevins sake ...I'll clarify since he can't differentiate from one post to the next ,and seems to have things mixed up.


I stated in the OP that I weighed my load at SAPP BROS in OMAHA ,NE ex 440 I-80 and the weights from first weigh had me over on drives by 1250lbs ,and that I slid my tandems on that trailer 5 holes forward which on that trailer is roughly 1250lbs and that only 5 holes existed to slide forward ...I ...DID NOT ...ever claim to re-weigh this load at sapp bros or before I got ticketed comming into Lincoln at the scale house at mm 415 I-80 , NE .


What I did claim is that I adjusted my axles based on the weigh ticket obtained on the 1st weigh at SAPP BROS and that is why the load was over axled as that scale was off on that weigh ticket obtained at SAPP BROS , so I adjusted my axle weights based on a bad weigh ,which put me moving weight that did not need to be moved .


I then stated that after my ticket at the scale house that I re-weighed load at the PETRO IN YORK ,NE on a cat scale to see what was up , and that scale showed exactly what the DOT scale showed light drives and a heavy trailer ...about 1,750 lbs over on the trailer , So I moved the trailer tandems back about 8 holes ,and re-weighed load just to be certain before I blamed the SAPP BROS scale , and sure enough 8 holes moved 2000lbs back to the drives...AND LEGAL

So my conclusion based on the weigh and Re-weigh at the PETRO IN YORK ,NE was that the trailer was the typical trailer we haul moving 250lbs per hole , And that the weigh ticket I obtained at SAPP BROS in OMAHA ,NE was off giving me bad axle weights , Which had me adjusting weight to the trailer that did not need to be put there , and caused my over axle .


No, JEEP, i understood very clearly that you only weighted your load once in sapp bros. then scaled it again down the road. what i dont understand from the OP was you never said anything about a 'bad scale' at sapp's. all anybody got from the OP was you scaled out your truck, ASSUMED you could move 5 holes, and be legal. you didnt reweigh till it was too late........we totally get that.

[Creek Jackson]

"250 lbs." "400 lbs." per hole. There is NO formula. By your numbers, you shifted 660 lbs. per hole.

It depends on how the weight is distributed inside the trailer. If you slide a tandem under an empty trailer, you'll get so many lbs. per hole. Slide the tandem--same trailer--under 46,000 lbs and you'll get different numbers. Concentrate 45,000 lbs. into the first 35 feet of a 53 (hello, Budweiser!) -- you'll never legal it.

And, erm, you didn't reweigh after you slid the tandem?

Go get em Ac, you are right there is no formula, unless you carry the same loads distributed the same way in the same trailer every time. That has never happened to me.

Or I suppose you could use the weight of load/ distributed length of load= distance required to transfer weight ie,,,,,,,,,

40,000 lbs distributed over 40 feet, the load would shift 1000lbs per foot of slide

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Go get em Ac, you are right there is no formula, unless you carry the same loads distributed the same way in the same trailer every time. That has never happened to me.

Or I suppose you could use the weight of load/ distributed length of load= distance required to transfer weight ie,,,,,,,,,

40,000 lbs distributed over 40 feet, the load would shift 1000lbs per foot of slide


well depending on your trailer the weight moved per hole can be different it just depends on the spacing between the holes ...And trust me load distribution has no effect on the weight shifted when you slide the tandems if you have 45,000 lbs on the drives 25,000 on the trailer with tandems all the way at the tail and you're using the typical I'm usuall hauling and you move the available holes forward which our trailer have anywhere from 16-to about 24 and you slide the tandems forward all avl holes you will shift 4,000lbs - 6,000lbs to the tail , and you will still be over axled due to the loads distribution , but it had no bearing on the amount shifted per hole.... Honestly I'm willing to meet anyone one of you who claim different ,and I will gladly prove you wrong not in an argumentive way ,but just because I love proving people wrong when I know I'm 100% right , and I haul very little freight under 40k lbs in a reefer and when I do pull non reefer it's dog food at 40K plus ...budweiser at 40k+ and so on ...I've done this for a few years ,and have in the past weighed and reweighed and can tell you that the loads distribution only effects if you can get it lega or not ,but it does not change the amount of weight mover per slot when slid ...And like I said anyone of you in the denver area this weekend give me a shout out and I'll gladly show you I'm right ...I love doing this ...WINK ...I'll be down in Denver tomorrow and sunday installing a bigger gun on my DUCK BUSTER ...LOL

[jonp]

so in my 3 yrs of architecture, i didn't learn anything.......thank you for setting me straight. <eyes roll>

no matter how i discuss this, you'll think i'm wrong...but that is okay.

You just made a wrong statement Kevin. No worries. It's just that saying the fulcrum has nothing to do with moving the load isn't right in one sense. It's exactly how shifting the trailer moves the weight to one side or the other of the tandems. Just like a teeter-totter.

However, the whole point here is that the person should have re-weighed the friggin load and in that your whole point is exactly right. At the least he could have compared weights and found out exactly how much weight per hole was shifted and then corrected again without re-weighing if he was still wrong. I've shifted the trailer after weighing, found out I'd put it too far forward or back and then moved it a third time about, what, 10,000,000 times like most everyone else on this sight. Never weighed it a third time and have never had a problem.

I've used 250lbs per whole as a general rule my whole career as a starting point in shifting the weight. You have to start somewhere. I won't re-weigh if I watch them loading the trailer, know what the product weighs and have pulled it and weighed it before then I know about where the pins should be to be legal. If you want to use 300 or 400 lbs then have at it. When you get a re-weigh you'll know for sure.

AC120 and Kev are right. Forget the whole fulcrum crud. This isn't geometry or physics (or architecture :) ) Shift trailer back = move weight back = , shift trailer forward, move weight forward. Do nothing = ticket.

[jonp]

Okay...actually what does a fulcrum have to do with sliding the tandems?? A fulcrum is a support about which a lever turns.....there is nothing 'turning' on tandems (aside from the wheels). So understanding what a fulcrum is, Ethan Hunt, really dont matter when sliding tandems. And he actually wouldn't be $119 'richer', he'd be $1 moore poor since thats what he should have spent to re-weigh the rig. getting a ticket, puts you in a hole.

I went back to my college physics textbook and read about force, vectors and equilibrium. It explains the fulcrum both the way Kevin and I did. One using a ball suspended on a string when discussing angles of movement and torque then further clarifies torque useing a teeter totter when talking about equal non-colinear downward force.

Both Kevin and I are talking about the same thing using different analogies. My apologies Kevin!!

[Kevin0915]

I went back to my college physics textbook and read about force, vectors and equilibrium. It explains the fulcrum both the way Kevin and I did. One using a ball suspended on a string when discussing angles of movement and torque then further clarifies torque useing a teeter totter when talking about equal non-colinear downward force.

Both Kevin and I are talking about the same thing using different analogies. My apologies Kevin!!

thank you

[Creek Jackson]

well depending on your trailer the weight moved per hole can be different it just depends on the spacing between the holes ...And trust me load distribution has no effect on the weight shifted when you slide the tandems if you have 45,000 lbs on the drives 25,000 on the trailer with tandems all the way at the tail and you're using the typical I'm usuall hauling and you move the available holes forward which our trailer have anywhere from 16-to about 24 and you slide the tandems forward all avl holes you will shift 4,000lbs - 6,000lbs to the tail , and you will still be over axled due to the loads distribution , but it had no bearing on the amount shifted per hole.... Honestly I'm willing to meet anyone one of you who claim different ,and I will gladly prove you wrong not in an argumentive way ,but just because I love proving people wrong when I know I'm 100% right , and I haul very little freight under 40k lbs in a reefer and when I do pull non reefer it's dog food at 40K plus ...budweiser at 40k+ and so on ...I've done this for a few years ,and have in the past weighed and reweighed and can tell you that the loads distribution only effects if you can get it lega or not ,but it does not change the amount of weight mover per slot when slid ...And like I said anyone of you in the denver area this weekend give me a shout out and I'll gladly show you I'm right ...I love doing this ...WINK ...I'll be down in Denver tomorrow and sunday installing a bigger gun on my DUCK BUSTER ...LOL

I suppose you can do it whatever way you like, Big Jeep. However, if you are the expert, then explain why you are the one getting the overweight tickets. :rofl:

[AC120]

I'm way off-topic here, but WHAT IS A DUCK BUSTER??!! :confused: :lol:

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

I suppose you can do it whatever way you like, Big Jeep. However, if you are the expert, then explain why you are the one getting the overweight tickets. :rofl:


in 4.5 years I've got 2 tickets for weight that includes this ticket ...the first one was obtained b/c ...I never weighed it ,because I came across the Joilet scales just a few miles after pick up on Good Friday ,and got a rolling weigh and was passed on , So I figured I was ok , But never weighed it , And accepted complete responsibility for the ticket I got comming into Des Moines costing $631.00 , As I never weighed it 100% my fault. This ticket however I did weigh it ,and the scale weights were bad ,so my adjustments were done with incorrect scale weights...NOT MY FAULT ...Now I still 100% trust using 250lbs per hole on the trailers I pull as this trailer was moving 250lbs per hole as demonstrated at the Petro in YORK ,NE so it's not a problem on my end ,But rather SAPP BROS . But because I don't have 2nd ticket with corected axle weights I have no legal argument , So after this ticket I will always get a reweigh so I have a piece of paper showing a legal weight for gross/axle after correction , And it does not hurt to have the 2nd weigh after correction just in case firsrt weigh was bad ...I just don't accept responsibility for the Bad weigh off the CRAPP BROS scale ...wink

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

i'm way off-topic here, but what is a duck buster??!! :confused: :lol:




mudd ducks !

[AC120]

mudd ducks !

10-4. Fire when ready. :)

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

Yep I just need to run the 4 guage wire tommorrow and get a 100 AMP fuse and then Monday run the Amp/radio through the shop to match them up , and presto swinging 1000 watts ...

[AC120]

Yep I just need to run the 4 guage wire tommorrow and get a 100 AMP fuse and then Monday run the Amp/radio through the shop to match them up , and presto swinging 1000 watts ...

1000 watts! Fire in the wire. Oh, definitely.

[Orangetxguy]

I went back to my college physics textbook and read about force, vectors and equilibrium. It explains the fulcrum both the way Kevin and I did. One using a ball suspended on a string when discussing angles of movement and torque then further clarifies torque useing a teeter totter when talking about equal non-colinear downward force.

Both Kevin and I are talking about the same thing using different analogies. My apologies Kevin!!


I learned about fulcrums my sophmore year in high school. In Geometery class. Had more on them my junior year in Trig.

Don't know why I took all them high powered math courses either. Spent the first 4 years after high school chasing cows....the last 30 have been holding a round thingy attached to trucks. :(

[jonp]

ok....take out a 2x12, 4 ft long. put supports under it 6 in. from each end, then place 300 lbs in the middle 2 ft of the board. the suports both equally distribute the weight 50/50. Now take the same "load", and move it toward the two feet at the end of the board, leaving the supports exactly where they are. now you will have the support under the "load" bearing more of the weight than the other.

now pretend you were going to slide the supports in each of the setups. If you move the same support (the one not bearing as much of the load) the same distance, you will end up with a DIFFERENT weight adjustment simply because the position of the load on the plank.

so the 250lb per hole 'rule', is just a guide and should not be accepted as 'trucker law'.

excellent!!!

[jonp]

you need to start somewhere with how many holes to shift an overweight trailer and 250lbs is as good a place as any. However, this depends on whether you have the same type of trailer or not.

Shift it and re-weigh!

[Windwalker]

you need to start somewhere with how many holes to shift an overweight trailer and 250lbs is as good a place as any. However, this depends on whether you have the same type of trailer or not.

Shift it and re-weigh!
You will find that the way the trailer is loaded also has an effect. If the load extends behind your tandems, the weight shift is not the same as when the load does not extent to the tandems. Use the "rule of thumb" to select the number of holes, then re-check your axle weights after you slide them. That's why it's only a dollar for a re-weigh.

[Kevin0915]

Okay...here it goes. I picked up a load of Ice Mountain water in Stanwood, MI. Load was 45,252lbs. My first scale ticket showed the following:

11,840
34,200
32,660

I rescaled the load moving the tandems one hole forward....the new weights were:

12,000
33,960
32,740

The difference on the drives was 240 lbs. The difference on the tandems was 80lbs heavier. Now the load of water is probably evenly distributed from nose to tail (probably two singles in the nose but doubled the rest of the way back). thought of moving another hole, and reweighing, but then again, i'm a swift driver, and can't afford to waste another $1. ;-)

I already have another load for tomorrow, 44k+. ill do the same just to see if there is a huge difference.

[jonp]

you shifted weight onto the tandems I get but why did the nose get heavier? That I don't get at all.

[Rev.Vassago]

Okay...here it goes. I picked up a load of Ice Mountain water in Stanwood, MI. Load was 45,252lbs. My first scale ticket showed the following:

11,840
34,200
32,660

I rescaled the load moving the tandems one hole forward....the new weights were:

12,000
33,960
32,740

The difference on the drives was 240 lbs. The difference on the tandems was 80lbs heavier. Now the load of water is probably evenly distributed from nose to tail (probably two singles in the nose but doubled the rest of the way back). thought of moving another hole, and reweighing, but then again, i'm a swift driver, and can't afford to waste another $1. ;-)

I already have another load for tomorrow, 44k+. ill do the same just to see if there is a huge difference.
Hope you don't need fuel.

[Kevin0915]

The funny thing is, on that load, and the load i'm about to pick up, my fuel routes have BOTH said "fuel up". Now i know better. When i fueled before getting the load of water, i only filled one tank, and i almost got to half tanks on the guage. Now when i pick up this Costco load, they want me to top off, but again, ill only put in half tanks. seeing how the water load only ran me 550 mi and this costco load is running me 400.

as far as the steers changing weights, i can think of two things. One, i was on the weight plate differently (dont know how). Or my other guess is this. If you take three tennis balls, lay them a foot apart, then put two pieces of wood, one going from ball a to ball B, and another from ball B to ball C.....then pump up ball B....the ends of the wood farther from the center ball will go DOWN. maybe this holds true when moving weight from the central set of wheels. then again, i'm probably wrong.

[catalinaflyer]

Be glad they are not pilot's and use a "standard" for load distribution.
Where's CatalinaFlyer? He'll tell you all about that.
Now how would I know anything about that :roll3: As I remember from flight training 101, there is NO "standard" for weight and balance. Of course getting some women to be honest about their weight and the weight of their baggage can be a chore :angryblue:

I have a really simple solution to this entire thread, weight it, adjust it and re-weigh it till it's correct. Or spend a bunch of money on one of them that mudd duck radios so you can run down the road with your echo up too hi telling everyone that your right and the rest of the free world is wrong.

I guess after 21 years of driving I've been wrong this entire time abut how much weight is moved with each hole (I thought about 500#) on the tandems and each notch (I thought about 250#) on the 5th wheel. I think I'll stick to flying airplanes, it's a whole lot easier than the truck driving thingy.

[Hanzzsolo]

What Pi$$ed me off is I showed the officer my scale ticket from sapp bros and told him I slid the tandems forward 5 holes to correct the axle weight , and he said those scale receipts don't matter ....? what kills me is that had I not weighed the load my axle weights would have been off but within in the 5% rule allowed for correction without fine .

Didn't you recheck your weight after sliding the axles?
Trailer sliders generally are 400# per hole except on the double holed trailers.
29+ years and never an overweight ticket. Check every load and double check it if you have to adjust it. Paying fines SUCK!

[Kevin0915]

Okay, here is another....load of CHEP pallets, load weight was 35,700 lbs. First scale ticket showed:

12,420
23,160
29,560

after moving my 5th wheel to the rear (it was full forward) and i left my tandems as they were (also full forward) the reweigh looked like this:

12,040
23,560
29,600.

total weight changed by just 60 lbs, but this could have been just your typical difference. but one hole on the 5th wheel only changed 380 lbs. So far the 'rule of thumb' of 500lbs for 5th wheel and 250lbs per hole on the tandems is winning out. But then again, this is just a 'rule of thumb' not THE RULE.

[Fredog]

I tried to shift the axles on my tanker to see what would happen but I cant find any holes

[jonp]

The funny thing is, on that load, and the load i'm about to pick up, my fuel routes have BOTH said "fuel up". Now i know better. When i fueled before getting the load of water, i only filled one tank, and i almost got to half tanks on the guage. Now when i pick up this Costco load, they want me to top off, but again, ill only put in half tanks. seeing how the water load only ran me 550 mi and this costco load is running me 400.

as far as the steers changing weights, i can think of two things. One, i was on the weight plate differently (dont know how). Or my other guess is this. If you take three tennis balls, lay them a foot apart, then put two pieces of wood, one going from ball a to ball B, and another from ball B to ball C.....then pump up ball B....the ends of the wood farther from the center ball will go DOWN. maybe this holds true when moving weight from the central set of wheels. then again, i'm probably wrong.

I don't know, that dosn't sound right for some reason. If you shift the weight to the rear then the drives are lighter and the nose should go down a little not get heavier. huh...

[Kevin0915]

I tried to shift the axles on my tanker to see what would happen but I cant find any holes

Sure there's one, you're just not looking in the right spot. ;-)

[Orangetxguy]

I tried to shift the axles on my tanker to see what would happen but I cant find any holes


:hellno: :hellno: :hellno: :hellno:


Fre.....What you putting in that coffee cup of yours??? You know dang well your not supposed to slide your axles down the road.........RELEASE the brakes!


:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

[jd112488]

bj is more concerned about the big radio, fire in the wire than he is doing his job. what a peckerhead for not reweighing at the truckstop...now like his typical big radio truck driving ass..it is someone elses fault.

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

well I think I've solved the weigh ticket mystery...lol... and yes Sapp Bros is to blame .

This Tuesday 9/2/09 I Picked up yet another short run from Pepsi going from omaha to Grand Isle , NE And decided to weigh it at Sapp Bros, And after weighing I went to park my truck and get my scale ticket... well after backing off the Sapp Bros scale due to the Prime driver who just left his truck parked in front of the scale after weighing his POS bent up columbia I went and parked and got my ticket .

Well when I arrived at the Cashiers desk and gave her my number the scale gave me (it's automated) she said she was not sure what scale ticket was who's because she had 4 tickets and does not know who they belong and what ticket belongs to what number ...apparently this happens all the time mostly because drivers drive over the scale when just driving through the lot and because it's automated it registers the weigh , So she asked me what ticket I wanted , So I had her give me the one that was already legal...and off I went ...Then on my way through Lincoln the scales at I-80 mm 415 were closed .

[BIG JEEP on 44's]

bj is more concerned about the big radio, fire in the wire than he is doing his job. what a peckerhead for not reweighing at the truckstop...now like his typical big radio truck driving ass..it is someone elses fault.


Such big talk from a man with a Transvestite in his Avatar ...LOL...I think I've got an idea that would sell like hot cakes at Fed-EX ...wheels on the roof of the truck and trailer ...LOL WINK .

[kc0iv]

well I think I've solved the weigh ticket mystery...lol... and yes Sapp Bros is to blame .

This Tuesday 9/2/09 I Picked up yet another short run from Pepsi going from omaha to Grand Isle , NE And decided to weigh it at Sapp Bros, And after weighing I went to park my truck and get my scale ticket... well after backing off the Sapp Bros scale due to the Prime driver who just left his truck parked in front of the scale after weighing his POS bent up columbia I went and parked and got my ticket .

Well when I arrived at the Cashiers desk and gave her my number the scale gave me (it's automated) she said she was not sure what scale ticket was who's because she had 4 tickets and does not know who they belong and what ticket belongs to what number ...apparently this happens all the time mostly because drivers drive over the scale when just driving through the lot and because it's automated it registers the weigh , So she asked me what ticket I wanted , So I had her give me the one that was already legal...and off I went ...Then on my way through Lincoln the scales at I-80 mm 415 were closed .

I doubt it had anything to do with people driving through the scales. You have to come to a full stop and the scales have to settle down before the scales will register your weight.

kc0iv

[Kevin0915]

I use to work at a Pilot truck stop, and they have CAT scales. i was just at that SAPPS and cant remember what scale they had (thought it was CAT). but anyway, for CAT scales, you come to a complete stop, but until the operator inside selects what kind of trailer you have (standard or double) then enters their 4 digit code, the scale will not register a weight.

[ssoutlaw]

Such big talk from a man with a Transvestite in his Avatar ...LOL...I think I've got an idea that would sell like hot cakes at Fed-EX ...wheels on the roof of the truck and trailer ...LOL WINK .


Hey JEEP, take another look at his avatar, that is Joan Jett!!!!!!!!!.......lol