70 Hour Rule

[Creek Jackson]

If a driver is in violation of the 70 Hour Rule, would that driver be considered to be in violation of the 11 and 14 hour rules also. Reasoning being that driver should not be on the road at all.

Another driver stated that this would be the case, I am not sure.

[mike3fan]

2 seperate things, you could be within 11/14 but still be over 70. The violation would be for over 70 and you will be put OOS until you can legally drive under the 70hr rule.

[Rev.Vassago]

2 seperate things, you could be within 11/14 but still be over 70. The violation would be for over 70 and you will be put OOS until you can legally drive under the 70hr rule.


correct. a gold star for you!

[mike3fan]

correct. a gold star for you!

how about a green thingie instead, help a brother out.....:)

[b00m]

That would be the 70th hour violation.A friend of mine,was in this violation with like 2 hrs over into the scale from blythe entering Arizona.Was put 10 hrs out of service, just 3 hours from home.It sucked real bad!!!

[Creek Jackson]

Thank you! :thumbsup:

[thebaldeagle655]

I drove out and picked up one of our drivers last Friday, 24 miles from the yard that was put out of service with 15 minutes over the 70hr rule at that time. I know what the rule is but to me, it looks like it would be safer and would give a driver a much better rest to allow him to drive what would have been no more than 45 minutes over the 70 hrs to reach HOME for his 34 hour reset instead of requiring him to sit in a truck that close to home.

I drove his truck in, he drove my pickup. DOT did check and ensure I had my log book with me! Luckily I had thought to grab it!!

[Scottt]

That would be the 70th hour violation.A friend of mine,was in this violation with like 2 hrs over into the scale from blythe entering Arizona.Was put 10 hrs out of service, just 3 hours from home.It sucked real bad!!!


Why was he put OOS for 10hrs??

Could still be in violation of the 70hr rule after OOS for 10hrs.

Would be OOS till 12:01am to gain back a day.

[golfhobo]

Why was he put OOS for 10hrs??

Could still be in violation of the 70hr rule after OOS for 10hrs.

Would be OOS till 12:01am to gain back a day.

Assuming he WOULD gain any hours back at midnight! What if he burned all 70 in only 5 or 6 days? :eek1:

In such a case, he would probably be able to move sooner by completing a 34 hour restart that would start the minute he was put OOS. (provided no one took his hood off! :lol2: )

Conversely (and I'm sure M/B will disagree,) if it happened at say... 8 p.m. on his 8th day, and he had hours to gain at midnight, he COULD be put OOS for LESS than 10 hours!

Had he been "split logging" and was within his 11/14 hour rules.... he could count that 4 hours as his 2 hour break and POSSIBLY be legal to move at midnight.

IIRC.... there is no longer a "minimum" OOS time of 10 hours. It now reads "OOS until compliant with the HOS" (paraphrased.)

Of course.... this would require that he is "attacked" by an LEO who understands the new HOS regs. They are few and far between! :hellno:

[Rev.Vassago]

Of course.... this would require that he is "attacked" by an LEO who understands the new HOS regs. They are few and far between! :hellno:
The same holds true for drivers from North Carolina.

[golfhobo]

The same holds true for drivers from North Carolina.

This is probably true! I AM one of "the few, the proud... the well informed!" :lol2:

[Rev.Vassago]

This is probably true! I AM one of "the few, the proud... the well informed!" :lol2:
Delusional too, I see.

[kreeper01]

This is probably true! I AM one of "the few, the proud... the well informed!" :lol2:

Rev stated that Golfhobo was delusional, i believe he is mentally deranged, who knows?

[zipy46]

Where I work... you are asked to 'log it like you run it' :rofl:

Go over 11/14 rule... oh well...log it...put a note in the comments section.

Over 70 ? ... who has that kind of freight ?... I need to go there :smokin:

Just do not Falsify is what they ask.


~~~~~~~~~~~

If you get nailed at the Weght station... thats another story

Still best to get caught telling the truth in this bussiness rather than running a BBR Hot Log

[Musicman]

In such a case, he would probably be able to move sooner by completing a 34 hour restart that would start the minute he was put OOS. (provided no one took his hood off!

Unless I'm mistaken, you cannot get a restart by logging line 2. I used to do this, but stopped becasue I had received guidence that CA would put a serious hurting on me for it. The regs state (section 395.2, of course):
395.2 (c)(1) Any period of 7 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours; or
395.2 (c)(2) Any period of 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours.

...and a sleeper birth does not qualify. Howeber if you are delivering a motorhome, you may be able to log all time spent resting inside as off duty per the guidance contained at the following: Interpretation for Part 395: Hours of service of drivers - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkkey=09016334800232ae)

[golfhobo]

Musicman said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfhobo http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/rules-regulations-dac-oh-my/38169-70-hour-rule.html#post454981)
In such a case, he would probably be able to move sooner by completing a 34 hour restart that would start the minute he was put OOS. (provided no one took his hood off!




Unless I'm mistaken, you cannot get a restart by logging line 2.


Yes, you are mistaken.

First.... nothing I said in what you quoted (or otherwise) indicated that the driver WOULD be spending all 34 hours in the sleeper. Even while OOS, he is free to leave the vehicle on line 1.

Second... as I've explained many times to the Rev and others, all time on EITHER line 1 or line 2 is considered as OFF DUTY time. They can be combined in ANY amounts desired (without ANY restriction) for either a 10 hour full break.... OR a 34 hour restart.

Third.... assuming he is in Death Valley or somewhere, and has a porta-potty and a fridge, he COULD spend the entire 34 hours in the sleeper if he wanted to.... and it would count as a restart.


I used to do this, but stopped becasue I had received guidence that CA would put a serious hurting on me for it. The regs state (section 395.2, of course):


I don't blame you, and I understand. I once logged an entire 34 hour restart as being in the sleeper and was questioned about it by an AZ trooper during a roadside. He didn't exactly LIKE it... but, he couldn't cite me for it. [no way for him to disprove it.]


395.2 (c)(1) Any period of 7 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours; or
395.2 (c)(2) Any period of 8 consecutive days may end with the beginning of any off-duty period of 34 or more consecutive hours.


Not sure exactly why you quoted this... unless it is because you are under the misconception that the ONLY "off duty" status is line 1. You do NOT have to be on line 1 and OUTSIDE your vehicle for 34 hours to log a "restart." Just like the 10 hour break, it can be ANY combination of lines 1 and/or 2.... as long as they are consecutive for the entire 34 hours.


...and a sleeper birth does not qualify.


It most CERTAINLY does.


However if you are delivering a motorhome, you may be able to log all time spent resting inside as off duty per the guidance contained at the following: Interpretation for Part 395: Hours of service of drivers - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?chunkkey=09016334800232ae)


This does NOT apply in this case, or ANY case involving a property carrying vehicle. I could... but would rather NOT... discuss it, unless you remain confused about the difference between THIS and a trucker utilizing his sleeper berth during a 34 hour restart.

Bottom line.... a trucker can log lines 1 and 2 "alternatively" as long as consecutively to accumulate a 34 hour restart. [However.... they SHOULD represent the actual activitiy of the driver.]

If you spend all 34 hours outside the truck, it should be logged on line 1. But, it IS possible (and legal) to log the entire 34 hours on line 2 IF that is what really happened.

And, BTW.... OOS time COUNTS towards a 34 hour restart... which was the point of my post.

I hope I've been helpful.

Hobo

[Musicman]

I hope I've been helpful.

Not particularly. I have no confusion regarding the use of Line 1 or Line 2 (or line 5 for that matter, as I’m drinking a Guinness as I type this). For a long time after the inception of the 34 hour restart, I used a combination of Lines 1 and 2 to get a restart. I did however, run into officers who were unwilling to agree with me that the spirit of the law is that time on line 2 is essentially off duty time that is simply spent in the sleeper. Many officers seem to disagree and I have since stopped using it as such. We (me and my wife) drive as a team and the restart really isn’t important enough to me to worry about fighting a ticket over it.

There is no place in the regs (that I am aware of, at least) where it explicitly states that the sleeper birth may be used in part or in full to act as off duty time. I also am unaware of any guidance that has been issued on this topic. An argument can, in fact, be made that it is not the same as off duty time. To be off duty, you must be completely relieved of all responsibility for the truck, trailer, load, etc.. If you are a team, you could make the argument that your co-driver was responsible while you were in the sleeper. If you are a solo driver, and you are in the sleeper, you may still be responsible for the care of the equipment of the load and therefore may not be construed to be off duty when in the sleeper.

There is a reference (cited below for handy reference) in 395.8(f)(11) and (h)(2) that DOES talk about sleeper birth time as being off duty time,

395.8(f)(11) Total hours. The total hours in each duty status: off duty other than in a sleeper berth; OFF DUTY in a sleeper berth; driving, and on duty not driving, shall be entered to the right of the grid, the total of such entries shall equal 24 hours.
395.8(h)(2) Sleeper berth. A continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time OFF DUTY resting in a sleeper berth, as defined in §395.2. (If a non-sleeper berth operation, sleeper berth need not be shown on the grid.)

I do find it curious, though, that in 395.2 Definitions, they chose to take nearly a full page to define On Duty Time, but they do not bother to define Off Duty Time. What this does is give an officer the opportunity to challenge you to show him in the regs where it states that Line 2 may be counted the same as Line 1 toward a 34 hour restart. If they ask, and you can’t show them (which you can’t) you are begging for a ticket. I don’t agree with it, but since I feel there is not enough evidence to back my view up, I’m not going to go begging to be screwed with.

[Rev.Vassago]

Not particularly.

Surprise, surprise.:rofl:
I did however, run into officers who were unwilling to agree with me that the spirit of the law is that time on line 2 is essentially off duty time that is simply spent in the sleeper.


That's because there is no such thing in the real world as the "spirit" of the law.

[golfhobo]

Surprise, surprise.:rofl:


That's because there is no such thing in the real world as the "spirit" of the law.

Doesn't matter, REV. There is the LETTER of the law, which I thought we had settled. YOU are doing Musicman a disservice by continuing this "myth."

You know FULL WELL that a 34 hour restart can include both lines 1 AND 2.

I guess I'll have to discuss this some more with Musicman. Meanwhile.... YOU can either be of some HELP, or stay out of it. :hellno:

I've got to go back to work, so it will have to wait. But, I am disappointed in your lack of help.

But.... NOT suprised! :clap:

[allan5oh]

Sleeper berth doesn't count as off-duty? LOL! That's rich!

You mean I have to get a hotel room for TWO nights in order to have a proper 34 hour reset? LOL!

[golfhobo]

Sleeper berth doesn't count as off-duty? LOL! That's rich!

You mean I have to get a hotel room for TWO nights in order to have a proper 34 hour reset? LOL!

No.... you have to sit up for a day and a half at the truckstop lunchcounter arguing with truckstop lawyers like the REV! :hellno:

[Rev.Vassago]

Doesn't matter, REV. There is the LETTER of the law, which I thought we had settled. YOU are doing Musicman a disservice by continuing this "myth."

I wasn't aware I had "continued" anything of the sort. Can you please show me in what I posted regarding your continued insistence that there is a hidden "spirit" of the law that I did so?

You know FULL WELL that a 34 hour restart can include both lines 1 AND 2.

Of course I do. Your point?

[golfhobo]

I wasn't aware I had "continued" anything of the sort. Can you please show me in what I posted regarding your continued insistence that there is a hidden "spirit" of the law that I did so?

Sorry Rev. I miscomprehended your post. I thought you were siding with the DOT officers.... especially in light of the fact that you have had so much trouble with the OFF DUTY wording in the regs in past/other threads.

[chuck3507]

Sleeper berth doesn't count as off-duty? LOL! That's rich!

You mean I have to get a hotel room for TWO nights in order to have a proper 34 hour reset? LOL!

I guess if you couldn't produce a motel receipt that would also mean that you had been up for an entire workday plus your 34.