Carl Long suspension upheld

[Mr. Ford95]

What a joke, the guy did not gain any advantage by it and still gets punished severely. He showed up at the All-Star with a 3rd party engine that he had used at Daytona. It passed all inspections down there but failed at Charlotte the next time it was used. NASCAR said the bore was .17 cu in too large which made the engine an eyelash over the 358 max. Carl used it in practice and blew it after 3 laps, NASCAR then took the engine to inspect it and found it to be too large. They can inspect any blown engine's unless you pack up and go home. If you decide to race and drop in a new engine, NASCAR has to inspect the bad one. The bore was said to have been from the engine being worn out. It was originally a Ganassi engine that Ernie Elliott bought and fixed it up. He then sold it to Carl Long who used it at Daytona and then again at Charlotte. The engine was dyno'ed 50 HP less than what he needed to be competitive for the All-Star and again, blew up after 3 laps in practice in which he was dead last on the speed charts as it was.

Penalty:
12 race suspension(he was also banned from ANY NASCAR sanctioned events until Aug. 18th but the appeals committee changed that to Sprint Cup only)
$200,000 fine to the crew chief(the committee said Carl will not be responsible for paying that even though NASCAR said he would be originally)
Loses 200 owner and driver points. He never had any points as it was.

What did he make for racing the All-Star? $5,000 instead of $25,000 because NASCAR changed the payout at the last second. He will probably lose his Cup Series job he had with the #34 team since he cannot do anything in the Cup Series until Aug 18th still. He can try to get a job with a Busch or Truck team but it does not fix how much he's in the hole already. He owes about $20,000 to a businessman who lent him some money so he could pay a pit crew for the All-Star. He also still owed some to Ernie Elliott for that engine. They have just put a small owner/driver out of business and maybe put his family out on the street by "trying to prove a point" since he will have to sell most everything he owns.

[mike3fan]

That sucks for him. I would love to know if the NASCAR haters would be so quick to condem them if this was Chad Knaus?

Me personally if they are gonna stick be the letter of the book (whatever that is for NASCAR) then it needs to be for all, regardless of size of the team. Seems all the other teams brought the correct size engine to Charlotte.

[mike3fan]

"I truly have a sour taste of the management in our sport. They've forgotten the roots of how this sport was created, and who are the people buying the tickets, sitting in the stands. The people in the stands are me."





http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/news/story?id=4225487

[Scottt]

The reason he was hammered so bad is per the rules the max engine cubic inch is 350 with a 8 cubic inch tolerence for heat, wear, etc. His motor was above the 8ci tolerence.

Nascar said 2 years ago if you mess with the engine, tires, or fuel it's a $250K fine.

[Mr. Ford95]

The reason he was hammered so bad is per the rules the max engine cubic inch is 350 with a 8 cubic inch tolerence for heat, wear, etc. His motor was above the 8ci tolerence.

Nascar said 2 years ago if you mess with the engine, tires, or fuel it's a $250K fine.

No crap Sherlock, they also said they were going to look at intent for anytihng that was considered cheating. It is painfully obvious that he had no intent with having a larger engine. It gained him zero advantage, so the intent was not to cheat so he could run good. The engine was a worn out POS and he couldn't afford another one. He had no chance at finishing any better than last unless a bunch of guys wrecked on the first lap. This is yet another example of NASCAR trying to run the little man out of town.

[Scottt]

What are you going to do next time when the little guy who has no chance shows up with a 434ci engine and says I bought it at a yard sale, I didn't know it was that big.

What are you going to do when the little guy goes to a racing auction and buys a MSD box. He puts it in his car and goes through inspection and it has a traction control chip in it. He says I bought the box at a auction and I don't even know what traction control looks like.

Show me Mr Ireadjayskieveryday where they said intent on the engine, tires, or fuel

The little guy has no business playing in the big money series. There are other forms of racing for the little guy.

[belpre122]

You fellas need to behave yourselves over here in the sports section........else I'll might sic Golfhobo on you guys, and restrict him to posting only about NASCAR for one year!:clap:

I think that you make a good point Scott. Reminds me of the Hoosier Tire debacle from not too long ago............ Not only was that entire program one of the biggest busts in recent auto racing history as it relates to product development/testing, but isn't it generally accepted in racing circles that Neil Bonnet's fatal crash was more than likely caused by those tires?

OK....back to you guys. I'm going back to war with my old foes over in the other forums!:lol: Carry on!

[Mr. Ford95]

Sorry Scottt, unlike you, I don't go near Jayski. I do talk with Marty Smith from time to time since he grew up just down the road from me. He's the only person I will ever believe when it comes to rumors and stories, he hasn't been wrong yet. Remember the Chad Knaus and Steve Letarte deal at Sonoma a couple years ago? They got busted for a fender being out of shape. It was then that NASCAR said they were going to look at intent on these violations and in that instance, the intent was to cheat so they punished both teams even though they had broke no rules. They had found a "grey" area to work in and exploited it as it was an area not covered in the new COT rule book. They were straight up cheating, they hadn't mistakenly messed up a fender. Remember Jeff Gordon winning a 150 2 years ago at Daytona only to lose his 4th place starting spot for the 500 whereas others got major punishment? Per NASCAR: "We feel it was unintentional, and actually fairly unsafe," said NASCAR competition director Robin Pemberton. "We feel that it was a part failure. ... I think it would be marginal at best if there was any advantage. One thing you can't argue is the car was low," Pemberton said. "We have to look at that, and as a result, it will move to the tail end."

Tire wars are too dangerous for the drivers. Competition is nice but not when it comes to something as important as tires. You get a company that tries to give a cheaper tire than the $400 a tire Goodyear brings and who's to say the quality is better? That was the problem that started happening with the Hoosier's, they started getting bad quality on the track.

[belpre122]

That was the problem that started happening with the Hoosier's, they started getting bad quality on the track.

Remember when Jeff Gordon won the Brickyard and tried to do a big time burn-out on the front stretch and couldn't? The speculation at the time was that he was using 'black box/F-1 style' traction control technology that would not allow the tires to spin. Made sense to me. Especially since that was before the days of NECKCAR actually caring or enforcing specs.

Any thoughts Mr. Ford? Scottt?

[Mr. Ford95]

Belpre I think that was more at the time due to him being a noob to doing a burnout, I believe that may have been one of his first attempts at doing one. If I remember correctly, that was the year that Marlin was running 2nd and Gordon had a big hole from a piece of debris in his left front bumper area. That was in 2004, NASCAR had already been looking for T/C devices since 2002 at Martinsville and being that he won, they would be tearing into that car if they suspected something funny was going on. Marlin was running just hundreds of a second off Gordon's times at the end, so he must have had the same T/C in his car if Gordon had one ;) Not sure why'd you want T/C at Indy though. Now if you'd said he had it Bristol or Dover or Darlington or Martinsville, then yeah it might have been possible. Best place to watch for T/C being used is pit road, if every time the car comes out of the pit box and not spinning the tires, they probably have it hidden somewhere on the car.

Scott, I get what you and Mike are saying. Over the 8 cylinders each were 1/48th of an inch too large, he broke a rule, I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing that he gained no advantage with it, so why punish him further? Take the engine and call it a day, he's already lost a bunch of money, why pile on him further when you know he can't afford that large of a fine anyways. They acted like the playground bully here and that's what is wrong with this. They didn't have to say anything publicly about it ever happening, just take the engine.

[Scottt]

Sorry I don't read Jayski either.

Friend of mine is a spotter for a Roush Team and I help him spot and hang with the team all weekend when I find time to go to the track.

Another good friend is a dyno operator for Yates.

A guy I use to race against probably had his hands in the motor in question. He was a engine builder at Ganassi

Friend of mine is best friends with a guy on Mayfields team. That's where I got the Adderall info the next day after it happened.

I have built and raced stock cars on the dirt for 25 years. My last race was 06-16-06 when I about knocked down a 2 row steel guard rail. Got turned in the middle of the straightaway and hit it head on wide open.; Wife wasn't inpressed and said no more.

I started helping a kid in town get started a couple years ago. We built him a 9:1 Hobby Stock. This year he is flying and has 4 feature Wins in 4 nights out.

[Scottt]

Sorry Scottt, unlike you, I don't go near Jayski. I do talk with Marty Smith from time to time since he grew up just down the road from me. He's the only person I will ever believe when it comes to rumors and stories, he hasn't been wrong yet. Remember the Chad Knaus and Steve Letarte deal at Sonoma a couple years ago? They got busted for a fender being out of shape. It was then that NASCAR said they were going to look at intent on these violations and in that instance, the intent was to cheat so they punished both teams even though they had broke no rules. They had found a "grey" area to work in and exploited it as it was an area not covered in the new COT rule book. They were straight up cheating, they hadn't mistakenly messed up a fender. Remember Jeff Gordon winning a 150 2 years ago at Daytona only to lose his 4th place starting spot for the 500 whereas others got major punishment? Per NASCAR:

Still has nothing to do with Engine, Gas, or Tires. Nascar said 2 years ago it is a automatic $250K fine if the engine is out of spec, tires are softened, or the gas has a additive in it.

The place Carl is getting shafted is a driver has never been suspended before. The car owner is listed as his wife. The owner and crew chief should be getting suspended and fined.

No Belpre I don't think Gordon had any type of traction control. The risk is too high for even the mastermind crew chiefs. Everyone associated would be black balled out of any type of racing if caught. With multi million dollar sponsors and contracts I don't think anyone would be crazy enough to try it.

Traction control has come along way. The first ones were a sensor on the wheels to sense wheel spin, easy to spot. Today they have them where you can turn them on and off with a cell phone. There is another the driver can carry in his pocket and plug it in and unplug it and put in his pocket when he gets out of the car. If you listen close you can hear them because they ****** the timing everytime there is sudden jump in RPM.

[Mr. Ford95]

Still has nothing to do with Engine, Gas, or Tires. Nascar said 2 years ago it is a automatic $250K fine if the engine is out of spec, tires are softened, or the gas has a additive in it.

The place Carl is getting shafted is a driver has never been suspended before. The car owner is listed as his wife. The owner and crew chief should be getting suspended and fined.

No Belpre I don't think Gordon had any type of traction control. The risk is too high for even the mastermind crew chiefs. Everyone associated would be black balled out of any type of racing if caught. With multi million dollar sponsors and contracts I don't think anyone would be crazy enough to try it.

Traction control has come along way. The first ones were a sensor on the wheels to sense wheel spin, easy to spot. Today they have them where you can turn them on and off with a cell phone. There is another the driver can carry in his pocket and plug it in and unplug it and put in his pocket when he gets out of the car. If you listen close you can hear them because they ****** the timing everytime there is sudden jump in RPM.

That's why NASCAR has gone to lengths to setup listening devices on the catch fences to hear it.;)

Not sure what your getting at with the beginning comments.........you asked me to point out where NASCAR said they would look at intent on violations. I pointed it out and you go off on a tangent about something that I already stated I agreed with. Again, NASCAR could have simply took the engine and been done with it, the damage had already been done. Carl Long was already in the hole $20K and with the loss of the engine, it was probably closer to $40K in the hole. He was not going to be back on the track this season and maybe next season too that far into debt which would have been worse than a 12 race suspension. Instead they piled on unnecessarily when it was already an unintentional self-imposed penalty, that is where the fans and media have a problem with this. Nobody is arguing that he broke a rule whether knowingly or unknowingly.

[Scottt]

No tangent here, Nascar said 2 years ago that the "intent" factor would not be considered pertaining to the engine, tires, or gas.

I said find a "intent" in the past on those 3 items.

[Mr. Ford95]

Sorry I don't read Jayski either.

Friend of mine is a spotter for a Roush Team and I help him spot and hang with the team all weekend when I find time to go to the track.

Another good friend is a dyno operator for Yates.

A guy I use to race against probably had his hands in the motor in question. He was a engine builder at Ganassi

Friend of mine is best friends with a guy on Mayfields team. That's where I got the Adderall info the next day after it happened.

I have built and raced stock cars on the dirt for 25 years. My last race was 06-16-06 when I about knocked down a 2 row steel guard rail. Got turned in the middle of the straightaway and hit it head on wide open.; Wife wasn't inpressed and said no more.

I started helping a kid in town get started a couple years ago. We built him a 9:1 Hobby Stock. This year he is flying and has 4 feature Wins in 4 nights out.

Sorry man, missed that post somehow by you, might of been because it was an attempt to hi-jack. Wanna cookie for putting that info out? :) Not about to start a little who's ding-a-ling is bigger contest but that's fine and dandy you've done that and know those people. PM me which Roush team you help out, might know a buddy of mine who's a tire specialist.

I'm man enough to admit, I missed that part of your post where you said show the "intent" for fuel, engine, tires. BUT, Mikey's team only saw a $100K fine for jet fuel, so your $250K auto fine holds no water. If you check this out, it shows how inconsistent NASCAR is:NASCAR fines, penalizes Benny Gordon's team for Bristol fuel violation - Nationwide Series | NASCAR Racing News - SceneDaily.com (http://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles/nationwideseries/NASCAR_fines_penalizes_Benny_Gordons_team_for_Bris tol_fuel_violation.html)

They got off with nothing but a slap on the wrist as a field filler who didn't even make the race while another field filler essentially gets the death penalty. Do you get what I'm digging at yet? They didn't pile on that small Busch team but they piled on one of the smallest Cup teams who was already out nearly $40K. That's the whole point of this thread from the beginning, it was an asinine penalty that was way over the top for the penalty he was already going to pay.

[Part Time Dweller]

What are you going to do when the little guy goes to a racing auction and buys a MSD box. He puts it in his car and goes through inspection and it has a traction control chip in it. He says I bought the box at a auction and I don't even know what traction control looks like.

I believe Nascar owns the MSD boxes and hands them out at the start of race weekend, sealing them as to prevent tampering. After the race, they are handed back in. This way, no one can tamper with them, or install traction control devices.