I'm screwed

[01WS6]

Okay so events in my other thread I wrote about "Need some advice" have gotten even worse. The cop wrote me down as at fault saying I clipped her rear end while making a lane change, and wrote me a ticket for careless driving. Now I'm hiring an attourney to take care of the ticket. Assuming I can get it dropped how badly is this rear-end collision going to hurt my job prospects? Do I have to report the accident to my employer and if so will they fire me? The event in question involved my personal vehicle not company equipment. I have been with this carrier for nearly 18 months with no accidents or tickets. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Rev.Vassago]

Assuming I can get it dropped how badly is this rear-end collision going to hurt my job prospects?

It may. The fact that it happened in a personal vehicle and not a CMV may help.

Do I have to report the accident to my employer

Yes.

and if so will they fire me?

That all depends upon your employer, and their insurance company.

[GMAN]

Most of the larger carriers pull an annual mvr on each of their drivers. Whether you tell your employer about it or not they will find out about it when they pull your annual mvr and see any tickets or citations. As Rev stated, it depends on your company and their insurance company as to how much or if it will affect your job. It will help if you have an otherwise good record with your company.

[Fredog]

if you DONT report and they find out, your chances of being fired increase dramatically

[Uturn2001]

Well if you get the charges dropped there is nothing to hurt you.;)

You really only need to report convictions to your employer that happened in your POV. So hold off saying anything until you find out if you are convicted of the offense(s) for which you were cited.

[Rev.Vassago]

if you DONT report and they find out, your chances of being fired increase dramatically

^THIS. It virtually guarantees a firing.

[golfhobo]

01WS6 said:


The cop wrote me down as at fault saying I clipped her rear end while making a lane change, and wrote me a ticket for careless driving.


Make SURE you know exactly how many charges you are getting. IF these two charges are separate, and depending on what statute they fall under, they COULD result in enough points to lose your license. If so, you will face a CDL suspension of at least 2 months. More on this below.

ALSO..... remember that a District Attorney CAN add charges above and beyond what the officer ticketed you for. See below.


Now I'm hiring an attorney to take care of the ticket.


ABSOLUTELY!! This is extremely important to fight this! (I would also discuss with him suing the b*tch, AND maybe the cop. Having a ticket made out before he talked to you???)

Take your little green book of regs to the attorney and make SURE he reads and understands reg 383.51 Disqualification of Drivers.


Assuming I can get it dropped how badly is this rear-end collision going to hurt my job prospects?


I assume you meant CAN'T get it dropped. If it is dropped, I would think it won't hurt you a bit.


Do I have to report the accident to my employer and if so will they fire me?


You don't need to tell them NOW. Each year, you have to fill out a form listing all tickets and/or accidents. IF you are convicted, you will need to list it then. The only accident you must notify them immediately on, is one in your CMV.

The event in question involved my personal vehicle not company equipment.

There are STILL repercussions. Again...depending on what he wrote up. If you are charged with leaving the scene of an accident in a POV, you lose your CDL for 1 YEAR!

Another thing to consider is this. Even if you don't lose your CDL over THIS incident, IF you let it go on your MVR you will put yourself in danger of having ONE STRIKE down within 3 years. IOW.... something happens AGAIN within 3 years, and you could lose your CDL and job.

Good luck and keep us posted.

P.S. I forgot to mention. IF they believe you rear ended the lady, that could be reckless driving AND "following too closely." ALL of these that you and I have mentioned, are considered MAJOR violations. You cannot afford to have ANY major violations on your MVR if you want to continue being a CDL holder for very long.

[zipy46]

Where I work there are two things that will get you canned on the spot without question.

1) Not reporting an accident

2) and rear end collision

[zipy46]

Its amazing how strict and tight the standards have become for the driving jobs..

[Rev.Vassago]

Where I work there are two things that will get you canned on the spot without question.

1) Not reporting an accident

2) and rear end collision
Agreed. Golfhobo's advice of not telling the employer immediately could very well weigh in their decision to keep or fire you in the future. You are, in my opinion, better off being up front with it, rather than hiding it and biding your time.

[dobry4u]

Agreed. Golfhobo's advice .........


I marked this on my calendar! ;) :smokin: :D

[01WS6]

I checked my companies handbook and there really is no mention about what to do about reporting an accident that occured in your personal vehicle. Im going to tell them but I want to wait and see if I can get the ticket dismissed so if they asked if i was cited I can possibly tell them no. I know my trainer had a student directly after me that rear ended a car on the highway and they didnt fire that student for the accident. I know because I went to CDL school with him and seen him on the road almost a year later. The only charge that I have on my citation is for careless driving, charge "1 of 1" on the ticket. I just hope i can get through this mess with my job and my cdl intact. Its really taking a toll on me....

[Rev.Vassago]

I marked this on my calendar! ;) :smokin: :D
Better uncheck it. I was disagreeing with his advice.

[BanditsCousin]

At United, I believe they give us 30 days from the time of the occurence to report it to HQ. After that, you are up the creek.

But, be honest with us (to the OP) were you driving aggressively like I see a lot of 4 wheelers and trucks do? You know, making the pass inches from the bumper?

[dobry4u]

Better uncheck it. I was disagreeing with his advice.


What was I thinking????? The universe is still in balance! ....sorry for my geriatric moment!:o

[Uturn2001]

Yes, some companies do want to know about everything 30 seconds after it happens.

Just to clarify things about not having to report it until being convicted is based on the regs not on company policies.

[golfhobo]

Where I work there are two things that will get you canned on the spot without question.

1) Not reporting an accident

2) and rear end collision

I'm assuming that is an accident in the Company's CMV. If you mean an accident in your POV, please state so specifically.

[golfhobo]

At United, I believe they give us 30 days from the time of the occurence to report it to HQ. After that, you are up the creek.


Again.... could you be specific about whether you/they are referring to an accident in your/their CMV? Or your POV?

[golfhobo]

I checked my companies handbook and there really is no mention about what to do about reporting an accident that occured in your personal vehicle.


Why am I NOT surprised?

[golfhobo]

To the Original poster:

Don't tell your company a single THING until or unless you are convicted of anything. Assuming your original story is the truth, you did not HAVE an accident to report!

I'm pretty sure that police officers are pretty well trained in the law, and they KNOW that hearsay is inadmissible in court. I doubt that the officer can TESTIFY that he SAW you engaged in the activity he cited you for. Your attorney SHOULD object to any statements he makes about WHERE the accident ocurred, or any pattern to your "alleged" driving.

Short and simple.... he didn't WITNESS a dang thing, and I doubt he can even be allowed to testify to it.

Even a court appointed attorney worth his salt could have this whole thing dismissed by the judge for lack of evidence. Usually, in this case, the D.A. would discuss the evidence with the officer, and decide not to even prosecute.

If you are telling us the truth, this should be a NON-issue! Regardless, and dismissing the Rev's opinion WITH prejudice, I would suggest you tell your company NOTHING until or unless there is something official to tell them.... and THEN only as it is required by company policy or FMCSA regulation.

I admit I haven't even scanned the regs for this, but I doubt the Rev can quote me one that even addresses it, let alone requires it. If he does.... I'll retract or redress my advice.

[Rev.Vassago]

I admit I haven't even scanned the regs for this, but I doubt the Rev can quote me one that even addresses it, let alone requires it. If he does.... I'll retract or redress my advice.

The regs state that the motor carrier is required to obtain an annual MVR for the driver, and is required to obtain a report from the driver listing all accidents and moving violations. It also states that the motor carrier is required to use that report in determining if the driver should be qualified to drive for the motor carrier.

Now, given the "spirit" of the regulation that the FMCSA wants drivers to be open and honest with their motor carriers, and the motor carrier is required to weigh that honesty in determining if the driver will continue to be qualified to drive, it is a logical step that the more you attempt to hide the fact that you were involved in an accident, the more heavily they will weigh that fact.



Don't tell your company a single THING until or unless you are convicted of anything. Assuming your original story is the truth, you did not HAVE an accident to report!

I must have missed where the OP stated that he didn't actually hit anything. You don't have to be convicted of anything to be involved in an accident. In fact, you don't even have to be charged with anything to be involved in an accident. And the FMCSA regs require all accidents to be reported, not just ones that have citations resulting in convictions attached.

[matcat]

The regs state that the motor carrier is required to obtain an annual MVR for the driver, and is required to obtain a report from the driver listing all accidents and moving violations. It also states that the motor carrier is required to use that report in determining if the driver should be qualified to drive for the motor carrier.

Now, given the "spirit" of the regulation that the FMCSA wants drivers to be open and honest with their motor carriers, and the motor carrier is required to weigh that honesty in determining if the driver will continue to be qualified to drive, it is a logical step that the more you attempt to hide the fact that you were involved in an accident, the more heavily they will weigh that fact.



I must have missed where the OP stated that he didn't actually hit anything. You don't have to be convicted of anything to be involved in an accident. In fact, you don't even have to be charged with anything to be involved in an accident. And the FMCSA regs require all accidents to be reported, not just ones that have citations resulting in convictions attached.
Actually you only have to tell them of reportable accidents. An accident on private property is not reportable as it cannot and will not ever go on your MVR.

[kc0iv]

golfhobo said: "Short and simple.... he didn't WITNESS a dang thing, and I doubt he can even be allowed to testify to it.

Even a court appointed attorney worth his salt could have this whole thing dismissed by the judge for lack of evidence. Usually, in this case, the D.A. would discuss the evidence with the officer, and decide not to even prosecute."

One must assume golfhobo has never heard of hit and run.

matcat said: "An accident on private property is not reportable as it cannot and will not ever go on your MVR."

There are many tickets written on private property, which includes accidents, by the police department. Most shopping centers have given law enforcement full power in this regards.

kc0iv

[01WS6]

:ranting:To the Original poster:

Don't tell your company a single THING until or unless you are convicted of anything. Assuming your original story is the truth, you did not HAVE an accident to report!

I'm pretty sure that police officers are pretty well trained in the law, and they KNOW that hearsay is inadmissible in court. I doubt that the officer can TESTIFY that he SAW you engaged in the activity he cited you for. Your attorney SHOULD object to any statements he makes about WHERE the accident ocurred, or any pattern to your "alleged" driving.

Short and simple.... he didn't WITNESS a dang thing, and I doubt he can even be allowed to testify to it.

Even a court appointed attorney worth his salt could have this whole thing dismissed by the judge for lack of evidence. Usually, in this case, the D.A. would discuss the evidence with the officer, and decide not to even prosecute.

If you are telling us the truth, this should be a NON-issue! Regardless, and dismissing the Rev's opinion WITH prejudice, I would suggest you tell your company NOTHING until or unless there is something official to tell them.... and THEN only as it is required by company policy or FMCSA regulation.

I admit I haven't even scanned the regs for this, but I doubt the Rev can quote me one that even addresses it, let alone requires it. If he does.... I'll retract or redress my advice.



You are correct the officer witnessed nothing. There were no cameras in the parking lot, and the only thing that he found was a few pieces of plastic from the lense of my headlight that i heard fall out onto the street when I pulled out of the lot on my way to my work at my companies drop yard. He said since he found them in the street it was enough to believe her over me. I explained to him that the pieces fell out of my car leaving the lot and that she and I both left the scene willingly. Im getting a lawyer for this and since I didnt actually DO anything I really dont think im going to tell my carrier anything until my joke of a ticket for careless driving goes to court. For anyone who doesnt know whats going on a lady plowed into my parked car in a parking lot with the back of her mini-van, and after we exchanged insurance info she called the cops and said I rear ended her in the street in front of the place. :ranting:

[01WS6]

Okay heres an update on my situation: I have hired a lawyer to attempt to get the careless driving charges dismissed or atleast reduced to a lower offense. My lawyer suggested that I could even attempt to plea to "failure to report an accident" which is a misdemeanor but has ZERO points and isnt reported on my MVR either. What sucks about this whole situation was that I wasnt even involved in an accident, but the legal counsel that I was given suggested that there no way to get the accident off of my MVR and the best thing to do would be to just try and get the citation dismissed.

So here is what im looking at on my MVR as of today when I pulled it today at the DMV

1 non preventable deer collision in my personal vehicle (no ticket issued) from 5/2/09
(This happened 2 days before the driver hit me in the parking lot and blamed me)

2.preventable rear end collision on 5/04/09 zero injuries zero deaths, and im marked with the hazard code "V16" careless driving in my personal vehicle

If I can get the careless driving charge dropped to a non moving violation am I still considered eligible to be hired somewhere? Im currently driving for a major carrier with 18 months of accident free OTR with no accidents or incidents in company equipment.

[zipy46]

Okay heres an update on my situation: I have hired a lawyer to attempt to get the careless driving charges dismissed or atleast reduced to a lower offense. My lawyer suggested that I could even attempt to plea to "failure to report an accident" which is a misdemeanor but has ZERO points and isnt reported on my MVR either. What sucks about this whole situation was that I wasnt even involved in an accident, but the legal counsel that I was given suggested that there no way to get the accident off of my MVR and the best thing to do would be to just try and get the citation dismissed.

So here is what im looking at on my MVR as of today when I pulled it today at the DMV

1 non preventable deer collision in my personal vehicle (no ticket issued) from 5/2/09
(This happened 2 days before the driver hit me in the parking lot and blamed me)

2.preventable rear end collision on 5/04/09 zero injuries zero deaths, and im marked with the hazard code "V16" careless driving in my personal vehicle

If I can get the careless driving charge dropped to a non moving violation am I still considered eligible to be hired somewhere? Im currently driving for a major carrier with 18 months of accident free OTR with no accidents or incidents in company equipment.

Why do you want to leave the major carrier you are currently driving for ?

[01WS6]

Why do you want to leave the major carrier you are currently driving for ?

Well I really dont but im not sure if they are going to continue to employ me after I tell them about the deer collision and the minor rear end collision that didnt even really happen. I havent told them about them because the careless driving charge is going to court to see if i can get it dropped or atleast lowered to a lesser charge thats not a major viloation. My thinking is that I would be better off putting in my 2 weeks notice to my carrier and leaving on good terms with a good DAC and trying a new company, because if im terminated for the accidents not only would i have less then perfect MVR but a bad DAC report as well. Maybe my thinking is wrong, im not sure. But both accidents happenned in my personal vehicle.

[matcat]

I highly doubt the deer collision will have any effect, it happens. It is usually safer to just hit it then to try to avoid it. Also I don't see how that accident got on your MVR so quickly considering that until it goes to court you are innocent until proven guilty. Case in point the speeding ticket I got in Connecticut the other day, it cannot go on my record until I either pay it (Which is considered a no contest plea), or I go to court with it and get convicted for it. Obviously I am hiring a lawyer myself on it, because I am sure as hell not letting that get on my license, but the point is it cannot even go on a license record until you are convicted, which you are not until either you pay it or go to court and get convicted.

[01WS6]

I highly doubt the deer collision will have any effect, it happens. It is usually safer to just hit it then to try to avoid it. Also I don't see how that accident got on your MVR so quickly considering that until it goes to court you are innocent until proven guilty. Case in point the speeding ticket I got in Connecticut the other day, it cannot go on my record until I either pay it (Which is considered a no contest plea), or I go to court with it and get convicted for it. Obviously I am hiring a lawyer myself on it, because I am sure as hell not letting that get on my license, but the point is it cannot even go on a license record until you are convicted, which you are not until either you pay it or go to court and get convicted.

Yeah in Michigan whether you fight a ticket from an accident or not the accident report gets put on your MVR. And my lawyer says there is no way it can be removed now either so im pretty much screwed when it comes to that. The only thing I can do now is hope my laywer gets the ticket dismissed or lowered.
Im so pissed right now...........

[Orangetxguy]

Yeah in Michigan whether you fight a ticket from an accident or not the accident report gets put on your MVR. And my lawyer says there is no way it can be removed now either so im pretty much screwed when it comes to that. The only thing I can do now is hope my laywer gets the ticket dismissed or lowered.
Im so pissed right now...........

I'm wondering something.

Have you learned a lesson here, as regards any type of accident? Does this situation help you to understand the importance of not moving your vehicle until a law enforcement officer has come to the scene and investigated?

As a "Truck Driver" you are a target.

[Ford390pwr]

I checked my companies handbook and there really is no mention about what to do about reporting an accident that occured in your personal vehicle.

I do not believe that the carrier needs to have a policy that requires you to report an accident in your POV. In my studying for my CDL knowledge test I read the following:

Nationwide CDL Rules affecting commercial drivers in all states.
You must notify your employer within 30 days of any traffic violations (except parking). This is true no matter what type of vehicle you were driving.

Am I reading this wrong?

[Rev.Vassago]

No, you're reading it correctly.

[golfhobo]

I have still not fully scanned the regs concerning "accidents" (especially in your POV) but.... here is the reg currently being discussed:

Subpart C—Notification requirements and employer responsibilities §383.31 Notification of convictions for driver violations. (a) Each person who operates a commercial motor vehicle, who has a commercial driver’s license issued by a State or jurisdiction, and who is convicted of violating, in any type of motor vehicle, a State or local law relating to motor vehicle traffic control (other than a parking violation) in a State or jurisdiction other than the one which issued his/her license, shall notify an official designated by the State or jurisdiction which issued such license, of such conviction. The notification must be made within 30 days after the date that person has been convicted.

(b) Each person who operates a commercial motor vehicle, who has a commercial driver’s license issued by a State or jurisdiction, and who is convicted of violating, in any type of motor vehicle, a State or local law relating to motor vehicle traffic control (other than a parking violation), shall notify his/her current employer of such conviction. The notification must be made within 30 days after the date that the person has been convicted. If the driver is not currently employed, he/she must notify the State or jurisdiction which issued the license according to §383.31(a) (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?chunkkey=0901633480023868#r49CFR 383.31-a).

(c) Notification. The notification to the State official and employer must be made in writing and contain the following information:
(c)(1) Driver’s full name;
(c)(2) Driver’s license number;
(c)(3) Date of conviction;
(c)(4) The specific criminal or other offense(s), serious traffic violation(s), and other violation(s) of State or local law relating to motor vehicle traffic control, for which the person was convicted and any suspension, revocation, or cancellation of certain driving privileges which resulted from such conviction(s);
(c)(5) Indication whether the violation was in a commercial motor vehicle;
(c)(6) Location of offense; and
(c)(7) Driver’s signature.

............

The gist of that is.... if you are convicted of a traffic violation within the state that issued your licence, you only need to notify your employer within 30 days OF THE CONVICTION. Outside the state.... you have to notify the employer AND your DMV.

Until I find (or the Rev provides) a reg stating otherwise.... an accident in your POV that does NOT result in a conviction of a traffic violation does NOT require notification to anyone (except maybe your personal insurance company.)

[golfhobo]

I do not believe that the carrier needs to have a policy that requires you to report an accident in your POV. In my studying for my CDL knowledge test I read the following:

Nationwide CDL Rules affecting commercial drivers in all states.
You must notify your employer within 30 days of any traffic violations (except parking). This is true no matter what type of vehicle you were driving.

Am I reading this wrong?

You MAY very well be. Your CDL manual is referring to TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS (which MAY follow an accident) whereas the quote you included in your post mentioned ONLY reporting of ACCIDENTS in your POV.

[phillip63]

The law is the law , and rules are the rules , and if you cant read ,write and understand the basic english language, you all get what you deserve.

" you must report all traffic fines , convictions and forfeitures with in 24 hours or the next business day to holders of a cdl in the employ of a commercial carrier"

end of story and pay attention to the wording.

[golfhobo]

The law is the law , and rules are the rules , and if you cant read ,write and understand the basic english language, you all get what you deserve.

" you must report all traffic fines , convictions and forfeitures with in 24 hours or the next business day to holders of a cdl in the employ of a commercial carrier"

end of story and pay attention to the wording.

Okay... I paid attention to the wording. WHERE did it mention an accident that DIDN'T result in a citation, fine, conviction or forfeiture? And WHY would I need to report the things you DID mention TO a CDL holder? :roll3:

Please give the reference for the quote you cited. I don't believe I've ever read those words on the FMCSA site.

You joined this board THIS month of THIS year, and have 2 whole posts.... and you think you are Paul Harvey now?

[Twilight Flyer]

OK, I’m sticking my head into a CAD discussion for a brief shining moment, since I still do follow the board at times – usually when I get an e-mail that Kevin is complaining again. :roll:

So here’s the straight skinny on what everyone is discussing. I’ve been in the office side of the trucking business for nearly 8 years and I’ve ordered and reviewed thousands and thousands of MVRS and DAC reports. So I speak from experience and know what I’m talking about.

An accident report on an MVR does not and never will indicate fault. All an MVR accident report does is indicate that there was some sort of accident report filled out by a “qualified” LEO that is now attached to your CDL/DL and is residing in a file cabinet or on a website or in some database somewhere. And it will always be there. The only legitimate reason for an accident report NOT to show up on an MVR will be due to clerical error, although I have seen instances where it took quite some time for the accident report to show up on the MVR. But over the years, I’ve spoken to many drivers that have dropped a lot of dollars on lawyers that said they could get an accident report removed from an MVR, all to no avail. It might happen, but I’ve never seen it.

Now, regarding that actual accident report – to a trucking company that sees it on the MVR, it means they will want a copy of it. Period. As far as the deer hit, no sweat. Make sure you have a copy of it and fax it to any potential employer that asks. I worked a guy several years ago that had 7 accidents on his 3 year MVR…all of them were animal hits – deer, dog, horses (3 of them to be exact…right on a PA highway in the fog). But he had reports on all 7 of them and never had a single problem. It happens.

However, the rear ender is going to be a headache in more ways than one.

Many times, an accident on an MVR will be accompanied by a separate MVR entry for a moving violation and that will usually indicate fault right there. In the original posters case, his MVR will ALWAYS show the accident – well, at least for the length of the state’s records keeping. Some states let things fall off after 3 years, some 5, some 7, some 10, and at least 3 of them are forever MVRS (MO, SC, and MA), meaning nothing ever drops off. But for the length of that MVR record, that accident report will show as a listing, regardless of the outcome of the court case. Again, it is only a pointer to a document, nothing more.

But again with the OP, he will also have that charge for careless driving listed on his MVR, happening on the same date as the accident. Any safety person or recruiter with a barely functioning brain will be able to put 2 and 2 together and that will be the end of that. Hmmm….accident…careless driving…same date…NEXT! Now you see where this is going.

Even worse, in the case of the OP, the fact that the accident report indicates he was at fault, will be a problem. EVEN if he gets the charge of careless driving dismissed in court and removed from his MVR, that accident report cannot be changed. It is an official document. What the OP needs to do IF he gets the charge dismissed is append a copy of the ruling to a copy of the accident report that he should have available to him at all times, if he plans on looking for another driving job. When a potential company asks about it, he can fax it all right over. End of story and no problem.

But…plead to a lesser charge and your screwed. Lose the case and your screwed. Either way, there will be a moving violation or miscellaneous charge on your MVR that will be tied to that accident report by the date. Whether that charge is careless driving or an equipment violation or a jaywalking ticket, it’s going to indicate to any interested party that the accident report was correct and the driver simply plead it down to avoid points and the inevitable insurance rate hike.

Your only hope with future employers is to not plea bargain, but to get that moving violation complete removed. Then hold on to the “victory” and supply it when asked.

However, all of that doesn’t even touch the fact that you haven’t reported it to your company yet. That alone will probably end up getting you terminated and slapped with a company policy violation at the very least, regardless of the outcome, because they will see those accident reports when they pull your next MVR. Had you reported it immediately, told your safety director exactly what had happened and what you were doing, he most likely would have simply told you to keep him informed and that would have been the end of it. Even losing the court case would most likely not have effected your employment. You see, it’s gone beyond the accident and the charge – now it’s all about trust. The fact that you didn’t report it immediately conjures up images of someone trying to hide something and right or wrong, that is exactly the perception you are giving to any interested party. To the posters of this board, the majority probably believes you and sympathizes with you. But to a safety director, who is ultimately responsible for who he leaves in a company’s truck, that’s going to be a major red flag and likely result in an immediate termination. I’m not casting judgment…just stating the probables.

I’ve said this before for the years I’ve been part of CAD – in this industry, full disclosure is always your best bet. Doing so now is probably going to be too late. But good luck with it. I’ll be interested to see how it plays out.

You may all now carry on. ;)

[RostyC]

Hey TF. Hope all is well.:)

That's all I have to say on this subject. :D

[01WS6]

OK, I’m sticking my head into a CAD discussion for a brief shining moment, since I still do follow the board at times – usually when I get an e-mail that Kevin is complaining again. :roll:

So here’s the straight skinny on what everyone is discussing. I’ve been in the office side of the trucking business for nearly 8 years and I’ve ordered and reviewed thousands and thousands of MVRS and DAC reports. So I speak from experience and know what I’m talking about.

An accident report on an MVR does not and never will indicate fault. All an MVR accident report does is indicate that there was some sort of accident report filled out by a “qualified” LEO that is now attached to your CDL/DL and is residing in a file cabinet or on a website or in some database somewhere. And it will always be there. The only legitimate reason for an accident report NOT to show up on an MVR will be due to clerical error, although I have seen instances where it took quite some time for the accident report to show up on the MVR. But over the years, I’ve spoken to many drivers that have dropped a lot of dollars on lawyers that said they could get an accident report removed from an MVR, all to no avail. It might happen, but I’ve never seen it.

Now, regarding that actual accident report – to a trucking company that sees it on the MVR, it means they will want a copy of it. Period. As far as the deer hit, no sweat. Make sure you have a copy of it and fax it to any potential employer that asks. I worked a guy several years ago that had 7 accidents on his 3 year MVR…all of them were animal hits – deer, dog, horses (3 of them to be exact…right on a PA highway in the fog). But he had reports on all 7 of them and never had a single problem. It happens.

However, the rear ender is going to be a headache in more ways than one.

Many times, an accident on an MVR will be accompanied by a separate MVR entry for a moving violation and that will usually indicate fault right there. In the original posters case, his MVR will ALWAYS show the accident – well, at least for the length of the state’s records keeping. Some states let things fall off after 3 years, some 5, some 7, some 10, and at least 3 of them are forever MVRS (MO, SC, and MA), meaning nothing ever drops off. But for the length of that MVR record, that accident report will show as a listing, regardless of the outcome of the court case. Again, it is only a pointer to a document, nothing more.

But again with the OP, he will also have that charge for careless driving listed on his MVR, happening on the same date as the accident. Any safety person or recruiter with a barely functioning brain will be able to put 2 and 2 together and that will be the end of that. Hmmm….accident…careless driving…same date…NEXT! Now you see where this is going.

Even worse, in the case of the OP, the fact that the accident report indicates he was at fault, will be a problem. EVEN if he gets the charge of careless driving dismissed in court and removed from his MVR, that accident report cannot be changed. It is an official document. What the OP needs to do IF he gets the charge dismissed is append a copy of the ruling to a copy of the accident report that he should have available to him at all times, if he plans on looking for another driving job. When a potential company asks about it, he can fax it all right over. End of story and no problem.

But…plead to a lesser charge and your screwed. Lose the case and your screwed. Either way, there will be a moving violation or miscellaneous charge on your MVR that will be tied to that accident report by the date. Whether that charge is careless driving or an equipment violation or a jaywalking ticket, it’s going to indicate to any interested party that the accident report was correct and the driver simply plead it down to avoid points and the inevitable insurance rate hike.

Your only hope with future employers is to not plea bargain, but to get that moving violation complete removed. Then hold on to the “victory” and supply it when asked.

However, all of that doesn’t even touch the fact that you haven’t reported it to your company yet. That alone will probably end up getting you terminated and slapped with a company policy violation at the very least, regardless of the outcome, because they will see those accident reports when they pull your next MVR. Had you reported it immediately, told your safety director exactly what had happened and what you were doing, he most likely would have simply told you to keep him informed and that would have been the end of it. Even losing the court case would most likely not have effected your employment. You see, it’s gone beyond the accident and the charge – now it’s all about trust. The fact that you didn’t report it immediately conjures up images of someone trying to hide something and right or wrong, that is exactly the perception you are giving to any interested party. To the posters of this board, the majority probably believes you and sympathizes with you. But to a safety director, who is ultimately responsible for who he leaves in a company’s truck, that’s going to be a major red flag and likely result in an immediate termination. I’m not casting judgment…just stating the probables.

I’ve said this before for the years I’ve been part of CAD – in this industry, full disclosure is always your best bet. Doing so now is probably going to be too late. But good luck with it. I’ll be interested to see how it plays out.

You may all now carry on. ;)


Your information has been very helpfull, but I have a few questions: Is the fact that this all happenned in my personal vehicle and not a company vehicle going to help me at all? I know that any accident in a company vehicle needs to be reported asap but my companies employee handbook states nothing about an accident in a personal vehicle. Or is it a DOT regulation that ANY accident in ANY type of vehicle needs to be reported to the carrier?

[dobry4u]

OK, I’m sticking my head into a CAD discussion for a brief shining moment, since I still do follow the board at times – usually when I get an e-mail that Kevin is complaining again. :roll:

That would get you frequent flyer's points. :lol2:

Good to hear from you and always a privilege to get your sound, logical, and on the mark advice. :thumbsup:

[golfhobo]

Hey! Twilight! Good to hear from you again! REALLY! Wish you would join in more often.

But, I have to echo the O.P.'s questions:

Is the fact that this all happenned in my personal vehicle and not a company vehicle going to help me at all? I know that any accident in a company vehicle needs to be reported asap but my companies employee handbook states nothing about an accident in a personal vehicle. Or is it a DOT regulation that ANY accident in ANY type of vehicle needs to be reported to the carrier?

I can find NO FMCSA reg that even refers to reporting an accident in a POV, though I DO see the one concerning traffic violations in ANY type of vehicle within a certain time.

OBVIOUSLY, one would have to report an accident in a company truck (or even a leased on one,) but can you be more specific or informative about an accident in your POV?

Sure, once a year we have to fill out a form with ALL accidents and ALL tickets. But, is there any reg that says you have to report an accident in your POV immediately? And if not.... do companies really hold this "TRUST" issue against you for following their policies of "reporting" once a year?

Furthermore, I assume you agree that one doesn't have to report even a traffic violation UNTIL he is convicted. If so, please specify (although I believe you have already made it clear.)

Good info about the accident report and any fault assigned... as well as a statement refuting the account IF the accompanying charges are DISMISSED.

And a BONUS question.... HOW much weight do companies (or their insurance companies) actually PLACE of POV accidents compared to CMV accidents? Is it just "driving is driving?" Or do they make dispensation? (NOT considering the possible traffic charges.)

Hope all is well with you and your "large" family! :lol2:

Just kidding ya! Heck... can you even FIT in that BATSUIT anymore?? :rofl:

[Twilight Flyer]

Your information has been very helpfull, but I have a few questions: Is the fact that this all happenned in my personal vehicle and not a company vehicle going to help me at all? I know that any accident in a company vehicle needs to be reported asap but my companies employee handbook states nothing about an accident in a personal vehicle. Or is it a DOT regulation that ANY accident in ANY type of vehicle needs to be reported to the carrier?

Chances are, it won’t help you whether it was in a personal vehicle as opposed to a company vehicle. You can play the “I really didn’t know” card, but I suppose it’s going to come down to the disposition of your safety director. Personally, I would have taken a moment to give him the report, tell him “this is what really happened and what I’m doing” and left it at that. I doubt very much that you would have heard anything more about it because the fact that you were up front about it would have raised no red flags. However, should they pull the MVR and see those accidents, then you’ll face some very tough questions.

As far as when reviewing a driver for hire, most (if not all) companies are going to review all accidents, whether in a POV or CMV. So it stands to reason that even an accident in a POV should be reported to your safety director.

Hey! Twilight! Good to hear from you again! REALLY! Wish you would join in more often.

There are times when I’d like to and there are more than a few topics where I’d like to stick my head in, but having the time to do that just ain’t what it used to be.
I can find NO FMCSA reg that even refers to reporting an accident in a POV, though I DO see the one concerning traffic violations in ANY type of vehicle within a certain time.

Just because it isn’t an FMCSA regulation, does not mean it’s not a company policy and none of my comments revolved around the actual regs – they were tied into what a company may or may not consider to be a policy violation. Put it this way – as a safety director, would you fire a guy for hitting a deer or cracking someone’s tail light in a Wal Mart parking lot with a POV? No. But would you fire a guy for drag racing in a POV and causing an accident that left someone maimed or dead? Sure would. So where do you draw the line on reporting it? Most companies are going to have well-defined policies in place requiring the driver to report all accidents and moving violations, including those that happen in a POV. Failure to do so is going to be a clear violation of that company policy.

OBVIOUSLY, one would have to report an accident in a company truck (or even a leased on one,) but can you be more specific or informative about an accident in your POV?

I hope I answered that in the previous paragraph.

Sure, once a year we have to fill out a form with ALL accidents and ALL tickets. But, is there any reg that says you have to report an accident in your POV immediately? And if not.... do companies really hold this "TRUST" issue against you for following their policies of "reporting" once a year?

The answer to the first part is that I am not aware of any regulation that says you have to report a POV accident to your employer immediately – but then again, I wasn’t addressing the actual regulations.

The answer to the second part is an absolute “yes”, particularly in such a volatile time of the industry. Drivers are getting laid off by the thousands all over the country or are losing their jobs for the most minor of policy infringements. If a company is on the lookout for anything to get rid of someone, they’ll be all over something like this. I’ve always harped on drivers about “full disclosure” from filling out applications to dealing with their FM’s and safety directors. Today, that admonition is stronger than ever.

Furthermore, I assume you agree that one doesn't have to report even a traffic violation UNTIL he is convicted. If so, please specify (although I believe you have already made it clear.)

Moving violations are a bit different animal. Regulations state that a driver must notify his company of any moving violation conviction (other than parking tickets), within 30 days…of the actual conviction. Companies will have different policies regarding how those moving violations will relate to continued employment. Accidents, on the other hand, are looked at much more closely.

And a BONUS question.... HOW much weight do companies (or their insurance companies) actually PLACE of POV accidents compared to CMV accidents? Is it just "driving is driving?" Or do they make dispensation? (NOT considering the possible traffic charges.)

For the most part, they are going to be looked at the same…”driving is driving.” There may be some companies that place less emphasis on a POV accident as opposed to a CMV, but those companies would be in the minority and not include any of the major or even semi-major companies. It all comes down to the potential losses due to litigation. Companies, especially today, are more aware than ever about what is at stake while doing business. Having all the t’s crossed and i’s dotted is imperative. So that trust issue is going to be huge. Violate that policy or the spirit of it and you’re probably going to be looking for a new job.

Hope all is well with you and your "large" family!

All is well…I’m so busy with things now I don’t know whether I’m coming or going. From football to dance to band to choir to soccer to track to driving to dating…it never ends. It was so much easier back when the kids were in bed by 8:00. :zzz: *sigh*

Just kidding ya! Heck... can you even FIT in that BATSUIT anymore??

I’ll have you know I still look smashing in my tights. :moon:

[01WS6]

this has been driving me so nuts i called my carrier to report the accidents. When i said that they were in my POV they said i didnt have to report them! i was shocked but a little relieved for now

[01WS6]

Well heres an update on the situation: I managed to get the careless driving charge dismissed! There will be no mention of anything on my driving record about the charge other then the accident report reference number. Im hoping that this combined with the fact that when I called my carrier to report the accidents I was told that I didnt have to report an accident in my personal vehicle will mean that I might be able to keep my job the next time my company pulls my MVR. I hope I can just put this nightmare behind me and keep on trucking.

[golfhobo]

01WS6 said:


Well heres an update on the situation: I managed to get the careless driving charge dismissed! There will be no mention of anything on my driving record about the charge other then the accident report reference number.


This is GREAT NEWS, dude! Although I'd like to point out that it was your LAWYER that "managed" to get the charge dismissed... and that (as Twilight said) that accident report reference number COULD lead to further investigation IF a carrier wanted to... I KNOW that you are relieved and that you feel better about your chances of staying (or again getting) gainfully employed! Congrats! Have a beer and relax.


Im hoping that this combined with the fact that when I called my carrier to report the accidents I was told that I didnt have to report an accident in my personal vehicle will mean that I might be able to keep my job the next time my company pulls my MVR.


I'm guessing you don't work for a MegaCarrier. My point is that, notwithstanding the TRUTH of what Twilight said, MANY medium sized or smaller carriers tend to be a bit more lenient or understanding about these things, and the "trust" issue has often already been decided as you are part of a "family" and things like this CAN be discussed, in your own time, without casting suspision over YOUR actions (under protection of the REGS) as long as they are legitimate.

Now.... ABOUT that "next time" your company pulls your MVR (annually.)....

1) As Twilight so clearly and intelligently explained.... you need a copy of the "report" for yourself, and you need to compose a "rebuttal" if it shows ANY fault on your part. These TWO documents should be available in copies for you to send to any and all future carriers you apply to.... but, MAYBE only after asking the Safety Director if he'd like to SEE them.

2) Get AHEAD of them! I mean.... give a few months (if you HAVE them) to let the beuracracy catch up, and then go pull another MVR for yourself! See exactly what it says BEFORE your company pulls it next year (or whenever.) Easier to go in and tell them it hasn't been resolved the way you were told it would be, than to find out from THEM!

3) Follow up with your lawyer! You PAID him good money... so ASK him for a letter or form or something for your file. Even offer to pay a few extra bucks (if needed) for his Paralegal to prepare something for you. You had some serious charges dismissed! I would want something from the lawyer explaining whether he was satisfied that they were dismissed "without prejudice" or "with." SOME "legal terms" to express whether ANY fault was determined, or whether NO FAULT was assigned or recognized by the court.

4) When ASKED to list accidents, check to see if the form specifies CMV, POV or ALL. If you must list them.... I'd list them exactly as they happened. Two days apart, you were HIT by a DEER... AND a lousy driver in a parking lot! There's usually a place for comments. You could say something funny like.... "it was a bad week in my POV!" OR... you could do like I do and simply say.... "official documents available UPON request." Probably the BEST thing would be: "No Fault Parking Lot Incident."

5) If it's a mega you're applying to, I'd say INCLUDED and include ALL the documentation described above. (OR say "No fault parking lot incident.)


I hope I can just put this nightmare behind me and keep on trucking.


I'm quite sure that you can! Remember.... you DIDN'T wreck a CMV! But, you MAY have to have documentation for the future to PROVE it was a NON-ISSUE! NOT charged! NOT assigned fault. Essentially.... the court/District Attorney realized there was not enough EVIDENCE to believe HER story over YOURS. [Yes, KC0iv.... I've heard of hit and run.]

As it stands right now.... you have NO "conviction" of anything to report within 30 days. You didn't HAVE an accident in your CMV that must be reported within 24 hours. Your company policy apparently doesn't REQUIRE notification of accidents in your POV. And you have "kept the trust" with your employer by telling him about it BEFORE he finds out. Personally... I would have WAITED until "I" knew the outcome before mentioning it.

I "believe" you will have NO problem remaining employed by your current company. And, I believe you should have little or no problem in the future as long as you maintain documentation AND your "innocence."

Good luck and keep us informed.

[golfhobo]

In ALL my years here on CAD.... THIS is one of the best threads I've ever seen. MOSTLY.... because the O.P. came back time and again to keep us posted!

Too many times we try to help someone... NEVER to know if we did!

I ALSO want to thank Twilight Flyer for his EXCELLENT and informative input!

Also, many OTHERS who contributed insights into the "company policies" that are out there. Often, these policies go beyond (if not completely contradict) FMCSA regulations. Point is.... you should ALWAYS know your company policies AND know if they conform to the REGS.

Considering how IMPORTANT it is to all drivers to know how these things affect their careers....and in anticipation of MORE testimonials and further results in the case at hand... I'd like to request that this thread (absent THIS post) be made a "sticky." I'm SURE someone could CHANGE the title to be more "descriptive." But, I have no doubt that it would serve a purpose for all new drivers who visit this site.

Hobo

[Windwalker]

Even a court appointed attorney worth his salt could have this whole thing dismissed by the judge for lack of evidence. Usually, in this case, the D.A. would discuss the evidence with the officer, and decide not to even prosecute
Unfortunately, the majority of "court appointed attorneys" are severely over-estimated. In order to have any real beneficial effect in a courtroom, you have to teach them to do their job. From what I've seen, they know less than the people they represent.

[Fredog]

Chances are, it won’t help you whether it was in a personal vehicle as opposed to a company vehicle. You can play the “I really didn’t know” card, but I suppose it’s going to come down to the disposition of your safety director. Personally, I would have taken a moment to give him the report, tell him “this is what really happened and what I’m doing” and left it at that. I doubt very much that you would have heard anything more about it because the fact that you were up front about it would have raised no red flags. However, should they pull the MVR and see those accidents, then you’ll face some very tough questions.

As far as when reviewing a driver for hire, most (if not all) companies are going to review all accidents, whether in a POV or CMV. So it stands to reason that even an accident in a POV should be reported to your safety director.



There are times when I’d like to and there are more than a few topics where I’d like to stick my head in, but having the time to do that just ain’t what it used to be.


Just because it isn’t an FMCSA regulation, does not mean it’s not a company policy and none of my comments revolved around the actual regs – they were tied into what a company may or may not consider to be a policy violation. Put it this way – as a safety director, would you fire a guy for hitting a deer or cracking someone’s tail light in a Wal Mart parking lot with a POV? No. But would you fire a guy for drag racing in a POV and causing an accident that left someone maimed or dead? Sure would. So where do you draw the line on reporting it? Most companies are going to have well-defined policies in place requiring the driver to report all accidents and moving violations, including those that happen in a POV. Failure to do so is going to be a clear violation of that company policy.



I hope I answered that in the previous paragraph.



The answer to the first part is that I am not aware of any regulation that says you have to report a POV accident to your employer immediately – but then again, I wasn’t addressing the actual regulations.

The answer to the second part is an absolute “yes”, particularly in such a volatile time of the industry. Drivers are getting laid off by the thousands all over the country or are losing their jobs for the most minor of policy infringements. If a company is on the lookout for anything to get rid of someone, they’ll be all over something like this. I’ve always harped on drivers about “full disclosure” from filling out applications to dealing with their FM’s and safety directors. Today, that admonition is stronger than ever.



Moving violations are a bit different animal. Regulations state that a driver must notify his company of any moving violation conviction (other than parking tickets), within 30 days…of the actual conviction. Companies will have different policies regarding how those moving violations will relate to continued employment. Accidents, on the other hand, are looked at much more closely.



For the most part, they are going to be looked at the same…”driving is driving.” There may be some companies that place less emphasis on a POV accident as opposed to a CMV, but those companies would be in the minority and not include any of the major or even semi-major companies. It all comes down to the potential losses due to litigation. Companies, especially today, are more aware than ever about what is at stake while doing business. Having all the t’s crossed and i’s dotted is imperative. So that trust issue is going to be huge. Violate that policy or the spirit of it and you’re probably going to be looking for a new job.



All is well…I’m so busy with things now I don’t know whether I’m coming or going. From football to dance to band to choir to soccer to track to driving to dating…it never ends. It was so much easier back when the kids were in bed by 8:00. :zzz: *sigh*



I’ll have you know I still look smashing in my tights. :moon:

yep, it looks like you are "smashing" everything:lol::lol:

[golfhobo]

Unfortunately, the majority of "court appointed attorneys" are severely over-estimated. In order to have any real beneficial effect in a courtroom, you have to teach them to do their job. From what I've seen, they know less than the people they represent.

Actually, Windy.... what you are referring to (and I MEANT in my post that you quoted) is a Public Defender. Yes, they are often inexperienced and less than effective in some cases. But, when it comes to traffic law, I still believe that one worth his salt could have kept this out of court.

As for "court appointed" attorneys, that is somewhat different. Many well established and successful attorneys do a certain amount of Pro Bono work and are often 'appointed' by the court for certain cases. So, by the luck of the draw a defendant can actually get a very successful attorney as a "court appointed" attorney.

As for actual Public defenders.... I doubt that many are actually over-estimated. If anything, they are under-estimated. MOST of us wouldn't really expect MUCH from them. But, everyone has to start somewhere! A recent law grad with MONEY behind him might start his own practice without going the Public route, but that doesn't make him any better.

So, just to clarify.... most Public Defenders are "court appointed," but not ALL "court appointed" attorneys are inexperienced Public Defenders. ;)

FYI.... if anyone here ever has a particularly 'nasty' case that requires a good attorney, but can't afford one, it is worth the effort to contact several GOOD attorneys and ask them if they do any Pro Bono work. If they do (and don't advertise it,) they can actually GET the court to 'appoint' them to your case if you convince them to do so.

Many do so on a voluntary basis while others are "instructed" to do a certain amount by the courts as a sanction for certain "misbehaviour" of their own. ;)

[Windwalker]

FYI.... if anyone here ever has a particularly 'nasty' case that requires a good attorney, but can't afford one, it is worth the effort to contact several GOOD attorneys and ask them if they do any Pro Bono work. If they do (and don't advertise it,) they can actually GET the court to 'appoint' them to your case if you convince them to do so.
Now, that is a new piece of information for me. I thank you for that, Hobo. Guess you deserve one of those little green thingies for that one.

[01WS6]

Golfhobo, thanks for the congrats on getting the charges dropped. The accident report still shows me at fault, and according to my lawyer and the police department that issued it the report cannot be removed or changed at this point. The report has my side on in stating that I told the officer she hit me in the parking lot, and the officer writing down after that he "located pieces of my car on the road the day after the accident was reported". This lie is what got the charges dismissed, he had nothing. It was the other driver who picked up some pieces of my car from the parking lot and told him she took them off the road. Unfortunately the reports always going to be there and always going to show me at fault. However, what I do have is the piece of paper from my court hearing stating that the charges were dismissed. I'll be taking Twilight Flyer's advice and keeping this along with my own rebuttle, and perhaps even one from my lawyer as well stating that I am not at fault. My hope is that if my company does investigate the accidents that piece of paper will be enough to convince them and their insurance company that I did nothing wrong. And im hoping even more the fact that I havent had ANY accidents or safety issues will convince them to just take me word for it when I tell them that i hit a deer and had a no-fault parking lot accident 2 days later. Thats IF they investigate at all, which I hope that they dont. This all happenned on my time in my vehicle and didnt result in any conviction of a moving violation. Luckily I still have a few months to prepare for the worst when the pull my MVR annually.

[lovely09]

It's your right to tell your part,what you had experienced on that situation and what really happen on that point of time.Have you checked the rear before you accept the ticket?See if it's damage,don't you?As they say,the truth will set you free so don't be afraid.