Newbie question to laugh at.

[Ford390pwr]

So even though I have never been in a truck before, I understand how important it is to run legal and keep your logs straight. That is all I know, now are there companies that will make you run illegally? How would one keep two logbooks, and is this something that is commonly done with the training companies?

[Fredog]

So even though I have never been in a truck before, I understand how important it is to run legal and keep your logs straight. That is all I know, now are there companies that will make you run illegally? How would one keep two logbooks, and is this something that is commonly done with the training companies?

if a company wants you to run illegally, run far far away, when something happens, YOU will be the one going to jail

[Double R]

So even though I have never been in a truck before, I understand how important it is to run legal and keep your logs straight. That is all I know, now are there companies that will make you run illegally? How would one keep two logbooks, and is this something that is commonly done with the training companies?

What's a log book?:D

[golfhobo]

What's a log book?:D

Something used by REAL truck drivers! :rofl::lol2:

Sorry, D/R.... just couldn't resist! ;)

[matcat]

The practice of double log booking is really quite rare. Especially in this day and age of qualcomms and companies matching your logs to it as well as fuel purchases, tolls, etc. No any larger training company is not going to do it, or make you run illegal.

The actual practice of keeping double logbooks is just the concept of logging what your doing twice, with offset time frames.

Most companies are not going to try to run you 20 hours a day :P However there are times when even the largest companies will look the other way for a few hours, but it isn't common, and it is ultimately up to you, as any consequences will fall on you.

[Skywalker]

if a company wants you to run illegally, run far far away, when something happens, YOU will be the one going to jail

Yep....run, run, run far away...

Not only would you face jail, but if you are involved in an accident, you will face a lifetime of paying of court settlements and lawsuits....

Considering the fact that logbook violation tickets can run over $1000.00 an incident, one screwup can wipe out a weeks wages or more.....

[Double R]

Something used by REAL truck drivers! :rofl::lol2:

Sorry, D/R.... just couldn't resist! ;)
:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Biscuit Lips]

So even though I have never been in a truck before, I understand how important it is to run legal and keep your logs straight. That is all I know, now are there companies that will make you run illegally? How would one keep two logbooks, and is this something that is commonly done with the training companies?



I do not believe there are many trucking companies that will "force" you to violate the hours of service, but many will strongly encourage you to do so to get freight to a designated location within the alloted time set forth by the shipper/consignee. A company forcing you to violate the H.O.S might bring upon legal ramifications for the carrier, so instead many will just turn a blind eye to the these actions and give the driver enough rope to hang himself. In the end, it is ultimately the driver's responsibility to operate his/her vehicle in a safe manner and in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations.

On another note, I have no idea how to run dual logbooks. It just sounds like a tremendous hassle anyhow. If someone was just starting their driving career it would be in their best interest to run completely legal, as said above.

[Jumbo]

Some guys have claimed to have been running 3 logs at the same time. Too much thinking for me.

[matcat]

Some guys have claimed to have been running 3 logs at the same time. Too much thinking for me.
I run five! :) :smokin:

[Biscuit Lips]

I run five! :) :smokin:

I could barely keep up with one. Had one job where I would fill out the logbook once a week on the weekends and was, consequently, stopped in Wisconsin by the State Police and it cost me nearly $500.00.:eek2:

[DaveP]

I could barely keep up with one. Had one job where I would fill out the logbook once a week on the weekends and was, consequently, stopped in Wisconsin by the State Police and it cost me nearly $500.00.:eek2:

That's a bargain.

PA cost me $680 once. (Keyword: once.)

[devildice]

if a company wants you to run illegally, run far far away, when something happens, YOU will be the one going to jail

I agree 110%. Besides, there are NO loads worth putting your CDL and career on the line for.

[Fancy_Maneuvers]

Some guys have claimed to have been running 3 logs at the same time. Too much thinking for me.

Jumbo, you and I are on the same page ;)

I hate thinking long enough to fill out ONE log book!

[matcat]

Log book really is quite easy. First off, if you log it as you do it, it is as easy as pie, you don't have to try to remember anything :).

[Fredog]

Log book really is quite easy. First off, if you log it as you do it, it is as easy as pie, you don't have to try to remember anything :).


unless you do it wrong, then you are in trouble

[matcat]

unless you do it wrong, then you are in trouble
NAh if I do it wrong I just take that particular loose leaf out, and do it over :)

[Malaki86]

Simple solution: Laptop + inkjet printer + Drivers Daily Log (http://www.driversdailylog.com) = ahhhhhhhh

DOT loves it, logs are a piece of cake and if your company accepts it, they love it too.

[GTR SILVER]

have fun.... Hours-of-Service Logbook Examples - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/topics/hos/hos-logbook-examples.htm#_Toc201554995)

;)

[matcat]

I refuse to pay for such an UN-user friendly program. I have been working on programming my own, I should finish it.

[Malaki86]

Ya, DDL could definitely be made easier to use. They got too much in it now. The average driver doesn't need 90% of what all it's capable of.

[Jumbo]

A couple of our trucks have the logbook right in with the qualcom. They hate it.

[matcat]

Well the code for the original one I started to program has gone lost, but that is OK, I started from scratch! I started shortly after my last post, and been working on it since.

I got the actual Graph Engine complete, which is pretty much just the code to draw the graph and lines, and some visual graphics. It isn't much yet, but it is a start.

This first screenshot you can see me drawing my log, the yellow bar shows where your mouse is at in the grid, the green shows where you started drawing from. The second is just a completed log graph for a 24 hour period.

I know the screenshots are big, sorry, I have a high resolution screen on my laptop.

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/mctruckin/ss2.gif
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/mctruckin/ss1.gif

[matcat]

Once I get it completely developed, I will offer a beta version for testing, and whoever beta tests it will get a free copy! Plus I will offer a discount for CAD members :)

As far as features go I am going to go for:

* Extremely user friendly
* Easily customizable log printouts (Unline DDL which charges for them)
* Log will look on computer screen as it will printed (unlike DDL)
* Customizable rule sets
* Customizable colors
* Built in Town Lookup with GPS capacity
* Built in Truck Stop Lookup (can be used to tell what town your in)
* DOT Report (Infraction list)
* Automated Recaps
* Motor Vehicle Inspection Report
* Keep track of miles / fuel / etc

Basically I will incorporate most of DDL's features, but make it much more user friendly. I am going to make it as easy to use as a paper log, well atleast that is the idea anyway.

I have had this program on the back burner for nearly 2 years. I have a hair in my butt now to actually work on it :)

[Ford390pwr]

Simple solution: Laptop + inkjet printer + Drivers Daily Log (http://www.driversdailylog.com) = ahhhhhhhh

DOT loves it, logs are a piece of cake and if your company accepts it, they love it too.

I work for Central.

With Central, you'll be using the electronic logs and their not that hard once you get used to it.

So are the electronic logs something that Central has created themselves, or is it a program like the Drivers Daily Log?

[Ford390pwr]

Once I get it completely developed, I will offer a beta version for testing, and whoever beta tests it will get a free copy! Plus I will offer a discount for CAD members :)

As far as features go I am going to go for:

* Extremely user friendly
* Easily customizable log printouts (Unline DDL which charges for them)
* Log will look on computer screen as it will printed (unlike DDL)
* Customizable rule sets
* Customizable colors
* Built in Town Lookup with GPS capacity
* Built in Truck Stop Lookup (can be used to tell what town your in)
* DOT Report (Infraction list)
* Automated Recaps
* Motor Vehicle Inspection Report
* Keep track of miles / fuel / etc

Basically I will incorporate most of DDL's features, but make it much more user friendly. I am going to make it as easy to use as a paper log, well atleast that is the idea anyway.

I have had this program on the back burner for nearly 2 years. I have a hair in my butt now to actually work on it :)

What programming language are you using? That DDL program is really not very user friendly at all, so i bet you could kick some butt if it is easy to use!

[matcat]

What programming language are you using? That DDL program is really not very user friendly at all, so i bet you could kick some butt if it is easy to use!
For actual application programming I use VB.NET 2008.

My biggest beefs with DDL are:

* The actual interface is very archaic and too cluttered
* Actually doing the log is very confusing
* They Charge extra to download templates designed for your company
* I like to see the log on my screen as it will look when I print it, DDL doesn't at all
* They are charging way too much for it

There is no reason why you cannot have all the features it has, and still be easy to use. My concept is to draw it on the screen like you would with a pen on your paper log, well click with the mouse where you want a line to start and end ;) And type in what needs to be typed. Also I am not going to have a million buttons on the screen either. All that does is confuse.

[Rev.Vassago]

* They Charge extra to download templates designed for your company

No they don't. Templates are free, and you can download as many as you'd like. I have about 4 on my computer.

* I like to see the log on my screen as it will look when I print it, DDL doesn't at all

File/Print Preview


And could you please make those pics smaller? They are messing up the page. Thanks.

[cdswans]

My concept is to draw it on the screen like you would with a pen on your paper log, well click with the mouse where you want a line to start and end ;) And type in what needs to be typed . .

Easy to me would be a program that:

As I arrive at the truck or roll out of the rack, I click on an icon that opens and displays:

1. the current days log with the line in sync with laptop date and time.

2. the log page with my last change of duty status (may be the current day) and

3. a log page which would cover any days off, in between.

I could then click on any page, then click on any point in the line and would be presented with a menu box with 4 options:

1-3. the other 3 duty status'

If I select 1 of 3, I would then be asked "Flag this change?" If yes, a flagline would appear (synced to GPS?) with a drop down menu of the 5 or so most likely comments and an open field

4. save and file or print

Let's say I stop driving Tuesday at 1600. I'm in a rush, I'm tired . . I don't update my log. The log would continue on the current duty status or it could default to off duty after __ (so many/user created default) hours or at the end of available driving hours, if that were the case. Regardless of when I return, the log would have continued to update itself and create new pages if applicable.

It's now Friday 0700 and I'm back in the truck. I open the app, see 3 log pages and select Tuesday's. I attempt to recall (or rewrite) history, click the line at 1600, change the duty status to off duty, I'm prompted to flag, do so and then Tuesday's, Wednesday's and Thursday's (one page) and Friday's logs are automatically updated to that status/location . . I save/file/print as necessary and I'm ready to roll.

The recap would have automatically updated itself and I'm showing a fresh 70.

Now, I right click to a drop down menu with the 5 or so most likely choices and choose "pre trip". By default, It starts (or logs forward or back a preset time) and generates a flag displaying last (gps synced or changeable) location and pre trip.

I finish the pre trip and I'm good to go. I right click or click on the line, select 3 and I'm on my way. I get a little ways down the road and spot a Pilot . . I need coffee . . On my way out of the truck or once I get back, I click on the line and select 1 and flag or log it.

If I go to 1 at 0805 then back to 3 at anytime less than 0813, it automatically flags only.

If I choose a line 4 preset, drop, hook or both, their would be a prompt to update the trailer or trip number.

And so on down the road until I leave the truck or go to sleeper berth . . or not . . I can always back track.

Save, file or print and everything is updated.

I would also include a preplan feature . . Enter pick up date and time, deliver date and time, miles and press the "can I do it?" button. If it's an open drop, include a "when will I be there" kind of thing.

The more I think about this, the more it seems that Delorme or Garland should be producing this and they (or you) ought to be leaning on the DOT for money to do it.

If you really want to make money, make this a phone based app . . select the app, press 1 of 4 buttons and that's it. Your phone knows where you are even when you don't. It could even be set to automatically send your log to the company . . screw this scanning nonsense . . take a picture of the bills and send them, too. Or do the Fedex / UPS thing and have the bill reside in your phone.

If you think about it, the Walmart (any customer) gatekeeper who checks your seal could send "seal intact" to your phone and update the bill, the receiver could confirm quantities, condition, etc. and update the bill . . even the DOT could look up your bill, match it to the truck and trailer and never physically handle your bill.

GPS enabled robot tractor drivers are only a few years away . . just think of how easy our jobs could be until then . .

[matcat]

Rev you resized them, now the details are obscured, that is why I resized them myself. Anyway I have a new screenshot, starting to look like a log!

http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/mctruckin/ss3.gif

Man you don't know how tough getting them flags to look right was :P It was about 3am, I was fairly tired, not a good setting to be figuring out some trigonometry, I spent a good 4 hours messing with it, but couldn't get the math equations right. Went to bed, woke up had some food, went to the bathroom, and the correct equation came to me while I was thinking on it doing my business in the bathroom :).

I will consider your ideas cdswans. I do plan on adding some minimal GPS support, but it won't give you door to door road miles, if anything it will give as the crow flies miles, because in order to figure out road miles one of 2 things need to be accomplished, either I would have to program my own routing routine like a GPS uses, or connect online to get it. Neither are good options. Programming a routine to calculate routing is outside of the scope of this application, and going online for it isn't practical when not all drivers have steady internet connections. The concept I have for GPS capacity is I will import the USGS Zipcode data database into the program, which contains ALL US zipcodes and their coordinates (at center), so it could suggest to you the nearest towns. Also I will take all of the major truck stop chains, because they all publish a list with coordinates, and it could suggest to you what truck stops are in the area you are at, but again it is not going to give driving directions.

It is questionable as to wether or not this feature will even be in the first release. It is not difficult to code, but it is not the highest priority. First beta release when ready will be all about the core features, making sure all aspects of logging work, being able to set the applicable DOT rules and regs, saving/printing, etc. I still have to come up with some sort of template system too for the logs, I was looking at the DDL example logs for their various print modules. I am going to have mine have a template engine, so anyone could create a template of their log, this would also get around the limits they have with copyright issues on some logs, because it is not a copyright infringement for you to create a template of a copyrighted design for personal use, assuming you do not distribute it to anyone. I am not quite sure yet how I will do that yet though, but I will figure it out.

Rev you are right, they are free now, not that long ago though they did charge for them. Plus file print/preview is not user friendly, it works, but people expect to see on their screen what they will be printing. They shouldn't have to do an extra step to view the result.

[matcat]

Ok now we can actually put something useful on the flags
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh314/mctruckin/ss4.gif

[Malaki86]

There was another company that has a logging program. It was discussed here, but i can't remember for the life of me anything about it.

It was within the past 6-9 months or so.

[Malaki86]

Found the original post:

http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/trucking-product-reviews-truckers-truckers/35243-trucklogger-drivers-daily-log.html

[matcat]

This one?
www.trucklogger.com (http://www.classadrivers.com/forum/www.trucklogger.com)

[Malaki86]

That's the one - I only looked at it. Never actually used it whatsoever. I think what turned me off was the 1-minute logging (vs 15 minute) that I couldn't figure out how to turn off.

[Fredog]

I'm using eclipse logbook program and I love it, very user friendly, outstanding tech support and CHEAP!! it doesnt do anything besides logbook like expenses though

[Malaki86]

Have a link for that?

[Rev.Vassago]

Rev you resized them,

No sir, I didn't.


Rev you are right, they are free now, not that long ago though they did charge for them.

They didn't charge when I originally bought the program 14 months ago.

[Fredog]

Truck driver daily log software - Eclipse Logbook (http://www.dieselboss.com/software/eclipse_logbook.htm)

download the free trial

[Skywalker]

If I remember correctly....as of May 11th, and that date may just apply to us...but the DOT is going to start using the GPS reports from Geologic and Qualcom in auditing logbooks, to make sure the driver was where he or she said they were at such and such time.... So its going to be even more important to keep logbooks more legal...as legal as possible, and done so that they match up properly....

Looks like not only will they be using fuel times, EZ-Pass, Pre-Pass. and whatever else they can...so you will want to make sure the logs stay straight, computerized or otherwise.