Idle laws that states have

[20 year driver]

:ranting:I recently came back on the road after being off for about 7 years, " What was I thinking?" All in all it is good to be back in the drivers seat of that Freightliner Classic with a 600 CAT motor and 18 speed tranny, what totally baffles me, is that drivers, companies, and trucking associations allowed these states ( California, New york, and others) to implement the Quote" 5 minute idle laws. What are people thinking? When a driver has a load to Buffalo, New york and the temperature is 23 degrees, I guess the driver is to sleep in that freezing temp, or when the driver has a load to Bakersfield, California and the temp is in the 100s, I guess the driver is to melt in the heat. WHAT KIND OF IDIOT CAME UP WITH THE IDLE LAW? I was sitting at the truckstop in Ontario, CA the other day and the Ontario locals were in there writing idle tickets, for what, to collect the revenue. Don't those localities realize that truckers and companies already contribute 100s' of thousands of dollars to their economies every day. I for one would like to see an e-mailing and phone calling campaign to the governors offices of all the states that have idle laws, possibly a class action lawsuit for discrimination, unsafe work environments. How many state reps go home and shut their heat off or their air conditioning off. NOT MANY I WOULD SAY. Drivers, stand up, be counted, I know that's a far reaching statement since for as long as I was in trucking before, you can't get 2 drivers to agree on a good resturaunt to eat, But, I'll bet, more than 3 drivers will agree that the idle laws are insane. Reply if you would be willing to consider a class action law suit. I for one don't have $ 7500 for the APU nor should I be forced to live like a dog. Thank you for the time....

[repete]

I believe it all started in CA with CARB, good luck fighting them and getting it changed don't you know it's the trucks causing global warming? Come on suck it up and take one for mother earth

[Fancy_Maneuvers]

Repete, you are funny ;)

Of course, 20 Year Driver will have to accept any ticket he is issued and attempt to fight it in court.

I suggest gathering as much data as you can under these circumstances, 20 YD, and arguing against global warming. The politicians obviously don't agree with the scientists... and some of the scientists don't agree with their colleagues (for what ever reason...); so, I say take advantage of the situation...

In California, you may get an increased fine if you try to argue in court... and they want their money NOW!

How many billions is that state in debt again?? Several billion... Watch out! Don't idle or speed or miss a day shaving or use red ink on paper logs or anything else that may warrant a citation. They need *your* money to tackle that debt - or at least to maintain their misappropriation habits.. in fact, those funds you mentioned that O/O's and trucking companies pay these states quite possibly have been misappropriated (I'm sorry).

Further, truck drivers are easy targets because Big Law does not expect that any of us will return to the state to fight a ticket... we also have to work in order to live, so we often do not organize... With that said, if we began to lose our jobs in enormous droves, we might be inclined to unify and march on somebody's capital... somewhere (I do not condone driving the truck up the capital's steps...)

With that said, perhaps - if necessary - drivers could try the anti-global warming argument in Connecticut (maybe?) where CARB hasn't trumped every other governmental agency..

Watch your back 20YD! I would say "Welcome back!" but it just wouldn't feel right...

>>shrug<<

[Musicman]

I for one don't have $ 7500 for the APU nor should I be forced to live like a dog. Thank you for the time....

Well, you're not expected to live like a dog. If you shut an animal up in your vehicle, they'd arrest you.

Just remember, as a driver, the states view your life to be worth much less than that of a dog.

Now, don't you feel better?

[Musicman]

Oh, and if that didn't make you feel better, here's a link to all the anti-idling legislation in all of the states... it's in PDF format and it's only 102 pages, and it's dated 2006, so you know it's grown since then. I know you feel better now! And for an encore, you should read up on what those cummunist MFers on the California CARB board are up to.

http://www.epa.gov/smartway/documents/420b06004.pdf

[Uturn2001]

Anything in particular you are talking about in regards to CARB?

Could it be their desire to ban dark colored vehicles or outlawing TV's bigger than 40 inches, or wanting to enact emission laws twice as tough as the 2010 or 2011 (can't remember which year the next one is due) federal mandates, or make all refer trailers equipped with shore power so they can be cooled electrically when at docks and in the yard, or is it them making the emission laws for small engines so tough that it virtually makes using an APU illegal..... or is there something else on your mind? ;)

[matcat]

I have a simple solution I follow, when I am in a state that is tough on idling, I just park somewhere where I am not easily seen or found and idle away :)

[Musicman]

Anything in particular you are talking about in regards to CARB?

Could it be their desire to ban dark colored vehicles or outlawing TV's bigger than 40 inches, or wanting to enact emission laws twice as tough as the 2010 or 2011 (can't remember which year the next one is due) federal mandates, or make all refer trailers equipped with shore power so they can be cooled electrically when at docks and in the yard, or is it them making the emission laws for small engines so tough that it virtually makes using an APU illegal..... or is there something else on your mind? ;)

Actually, the only one of those that will inconvenience me is in a few years when I have to retrofit my truck to be legal. It's an '06 so I have a few years yet before I'll have to make the change. Luckily, it’s a Cummins engine, which is supposed to be the cheapest to convert over (once the technology is actually out of R&D).I have an APU that is a Tier 3 unit, so the most I'll have to do to it is add a particulate filter when they force me to finally comply with that regulation.

It's mostly the idea that those bastards think they have the right to make such radical changes. I think global warming is either complete BS or just the natural cycle this planet has been in for millennia; but I agree that a clean environment is a nice thing to live and work in and don't mind making SENSIBLE changes to help achieve that end, like using an APU... besides it saves wear and tear on my truck and saves a ton of fuel. It's just that some of the things they are mandating, the technology doesn’t even exist yet to make it possible. I don’t think CARB will be happy until our trucks run on sunshine and expel purified water from the exhaust.

What I’m really hoping for, though I’m not counting on it, is that by the time I’m mandated to make these changes, somebody in government will have grown a brain and put a stop to the madness.

[matcat]

Actually, the only one of those that will inconvenience me is in a few years when I have to retrofit my truck to be legal. It's an '06 so I have a few years yet before I'll have to make the change. Luckily, it’s a Cummins engine, which is supposed to be the cheapest to convert over (once the technology is actually out of R&D).I have an APU that is a Tier 3 unit, so the most I'll have to do to it is add a particulate filter when they force me to finally comply with that regulation.

It's mostly the idea that those bastards think they have the right to make such radical changes. I think global warming is either complete BS or just the natural cycle this planet has been in for millennia; but I agree that a clean environment is a nice thing to live and work in and don't mind making SENSIBLE changes to help achieve that end, like using an APU... besides it saves wear and tear on my truck and saves a ton of fuel. It's just that some of the things they are mandating, the technology doesn’t even exist yet to make it possible. I don’t think CARB will be happy until our trucks run on sunshine and expel purified water from the exhaust.

What I’m really hoping for, though I’m not counting on it, is that by the time I’m mandated to make these changes, somebody in government will have grown a brain and put a stop to the madness.
It's going to come down to electric motors. Eventually they will realize it is impossible to achieve what they want to achieve with combustion engines.

There are a lot of pros and cons to an electrical solution however.

Pros:
Obviously no footprint by the vehicle itself (Emissions, fuel, etc)
Electric motors are much more efficient
Electric motors can have much greater torq for pulling
Electric motors are much more quiet
Electric motors have easyer upkeep and maintenance

Cons:
Much heavyer and heftyer in size (Including batteries)
Much much more expensive upfront costs

The real problem too will be how to keep these electric motors going. There are 2 options, one is onboard generator much like how a train works. Trains are much more efficient then straight diesel engines, however you will need a rather large rig therefor very heavy to accommodate everything required to make it possible, plus you are still generating emissions. Second is to use shore power, which means you must recharge your truck. This means all trucks would have to park somewhere with shore power hookup. Also would be a problem with how quickly it would take to charge vs how long you can run on a charge. It would be possible to probably setup a system to allow you to fully charge a truck in 10 hours and get 700 or so miles out of it.

Personally the most realistic method would be to use a diesel generator. Ultimately your full tanks of fuel could last you many days, vs having to fuel up every day and a half or so, plus your emissions will be much much lower.

[Windwalker]

It's going to come down to electric motors. Eventually they will realize it is impossible to achieve what they want to achieve with combustion engines.

There are a lot of pros and cons to an electrical solution however.

Pros:
Obviously no footprint by the vehicle itself (Emissions, fuel, etc)
Electric motors are much more efficient
Electric motors can have much greater torq for pulling
Electric motors are much more quiet
Electric motors have easyer upkeep and maintenance

Cons:
Much heavyer and heftyer in size (Including batteries)
Much much more expensive upfront costs

The real problem too will be how to keep these electric motors going. There are 2 options, one is onboard generator much like how a train works. Trains are much more efficient then straight diesel engines, however you will need a rather large rig therefor very heavy to accommodate everything required to make it possible, plus you are still generating emissions. Second is to use shore power, which means you must recharge your truck. This means all trucks would have to park somewhere with shore power hookup. Also would be a problem with how quickly it would take to charge vs how long you can run on a charge. It would be possible to probably setup a system to allow you to fully charge a truck in 10 hours and get 700 or so miles out of it.

Personally the most realistic method would be to use a diesel generator. Ultimately your full tanks of fuel could last you many days, vs having to fuel up every day and a half or so, plus your emissions will be much much lower.
Then, there is the problem of charging the batteries. Not that I would mind the long periods of just sitting and sleeping while my batteries charge up for the next leg of the trip, and dispatch would not be able to make the appointments with a 90 mph window, but think about it...

Where does the power come from to charge those batteries? Maybe wind power, or a nuke power station... Or... Maybe a coal-fired power station.

Burn fuel, or put extra demand on coal-fired stations... What's the difference. Put the same amount of CO2 into the air either way. What's the difference?

Also, while electric motors may be more efficient, do you know what kind of losses you experience in the charging systems? What the charger demands from the power lines does not all go into your batteries.

[matcat]

Then, there is the problem of charging the batteries. Not that I would mind the long periods of just sitting and sleeping while my batteries charge up for the next leg of the trip, and dispatch would not be able to make the appointments with a 90 mph window, but think about it...

Where does the power come from to charge those batteries? Maybe wind power, or a nuke power station... Or... Maybe a coal-fired power station.

Burn fuel, or put extra demand on coal-fired stations... What's the difference. Put the same amount of CO2 into the air either way. What's the difference?

Also, while electric motors may be more efficient, do you know what kind of losses you experience in the charging systems? What the charger demands from the power lines does not all go into your batteries.

Short of putting pedals in the truck, there is no way to make them go down the road with zero footprint on emissions. Nuclear power has no emissions :) But realistically if it even comes down to using shore power for recharging, the real problem will be parking! There isn't enough truck parking to begin with, imagine what it will be like when you are required to use shore power to charge your truck and there are no parking spots at the nearest charging station!

[repete]

Maybe someone will come up with a way to put hamsters in your tires and train them to all run the same way! That's about as good as someother ideas LOL

[stonefly]

All answers to energy problems have something in common.



stonefly

[GMAN]

CARB is what happens to your brain on drugs. :bow:

[matcat]

You know, not that I advocate drugs... BUT... This country has such a misinformed propaganda about them. Very very few drugs actually do any damage to your brain, just an FYI :)

[Musicman]

You know, not that I advocate drugs... BUT... This country has such a misinformed propaganda about them. Very very few drugs actually do any damage to your brain, just an FYI :)

I agree with you, at least with marijuana. I’ve known hundreds of pot smokers and have never known one of them to get stoned and crash their car at 100 mph into somebody or something, nor have I ever known any of them to get stoned and beat on their spouse or kids or get into a bar fight. I also have never known any of them to be truly addicted to marijuana. Conversely, I have known lots of drunks who have done one or all of these things (sometimes in the same night). Alcohol is much worse than marijuana and yet it is legal.

[Malaki86]

In my previous life, I worked for Rubbermaid in Winchester, VA. When the temperature was too high inside the plant (125f), OSHA shut down that section. Just how hot do you think it'll get inside of a truck that's sitting in a parking lot in full sun on a 110f day...

[Hanzzsolo]

The government is Anti-Trucker in regards to these insane anti-idling laws. As usual it is a knee-jerk reaction to the environmentalists which has a huge lobby in washington. The govt. passes laws without any regard to the consequences it has on human life. You know the old saying "putting the Cart in Front of the Horse".

The Truck Drivers in America need the support of the voters if we want change and we need key people in Government who care but don't know our problems on our side also. In that regard I have a website "WarOnTruckers.com" which has and is making a difference. The population is reading it. More importantly it is visited by the "House of Representives" and there is an official from "NIOSH" (a branch of CDC and OSHA) is in particular watching the comments on WarOnTruckers.

Class A Drivers forums are great for drivers, and I am NOT trying to take anyone away from here. However we need to stick together as truckers. Please visit WarOnTruckers, in particular the posting on Anti-Idling and comment on what life is like with these laws in place. You will also find on the Anti-Idling post, links with all current anti-idling regulations in a single PDF file located there.

Together we can make a difference.

[tweety bird]

Maybe someone will come up with a way to put hamsters in your tires and train them to all run the same way! That's about as good as someother ideas LOL

I wouldn't be surprised if someone has tried it... lol.

[tweety bird]

I agree with you, at least with marijuana. I’ve known hundreds of pot smokers and have never known one of them to get stoned and crash their car at 100 mph into somebody or something, nor have I ever known any of them to get stoned and beat on their spouse or kids or get into a bar fight. I also have never known any of them to be truly addicted to marijuana. Conversely, I have known lots of drunks who have done one or all of these things (sometimes in the same night). Alcohol is much worse than marijuana and yet it is legal.

If you ever watch that show Intervention where they do documentary style interventions... it's the alcoholics who are the worst. Drugs of any kind suck- the the alcoholics fall apart even worst than the hard core drug addicts.

[tweety bird]

Two articles on state-by-state idling laws:

Where You Can Idle and Where You Can't Part I (http://www.coopsareopen.com/news/where-you-can-idle-and-where-you-cant-part-i.html)
Where You Can Idle and Where You Can't Part II (http://www.coopsareopen.com/news/where-you-can-idle-and-where-you-cant-part-ii.html)

:hellno:

[Silver Dollar]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone has tried it... lol.

Only problem is that "standard" hampters would not be able to muster up to the task. If you put them on steroids, they would not pass the drug test. Back to square one.

[Windwalker]

There is a cure to the "ANTI-IDLING". But, no one is willing to do it. Don't serve the states that have those laws in place. Simple as that. Refuse to serve them. It won't be long and they'll re-think their laws. But you don't have the guts to do that.

My solution? I'm going to retire and get off the road completely. Retirement coming up very soon.

[zipy46]

Just idle the big stinky truck

[geeshock]

all but a few of those states usually don't bother me. I was on I-90 on the thru-way, it was hot and I was ideling my truck, a dozen police whent into amd out of the service plaza well w/in earshot of my truck idleing away and didn't even look my way. Cali is a diferent monster all together but the few times I was there I did idle my truck. was just fortunate enough i guess.