Test: What size tank requires a tank endorsement?

[Myth_Buster]

Here are a few hints, I'll check back in a day or two for the answers:



Part 383: Commercial driver's license standards; requirements and penalties (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?chunkKey=0901633480023862)



Part 383: Commercial driver's license standards; requirements and penalties (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?chunkKey=0901633480023878)



Be safe.

[allan5oh]

If it is a tank vehicle it requires endorsement.

(b) Endorsement descriptions. An operator must obtain State-issued endorsements to his/her CDL to operate commercial motor vehicles which are:

.....

b)(3) Tank vehicles;

Tank vehicle is defined as:

Tank vehicle means any commercial motor vehicle that is designed to transport any liquid or gaseous materials within a tank that is either permanently or temporarily attached to the vehicle or the chassis. Such vehicles include, but are not limited to, cargo tanks and portable tanks, as defined in Part 171 of this title. However, this definition does not include portable tanks having a rated capacity under 1,000 gallons.

I see no quantity for tank vehicles, except for portable tanks. Definition of portable tanks:

Portable tank means a bulk packaging (except a cylinder having a water capacity of 1000 pounds or less) designed primarily to be loaded onto, or on, or temporarily attached to a transport vehicle or ship and equipped with skids, mountings, or accessories to facilitate handling of the tank by mechanical means. It does not include a cargo tank, tank car, multi-unit tank car tank, or trailer carrying 3AX, 3AAX, or 3T cylinders.

So to answer your question, all tank vehicles require endorsements. However if the "tank" fits the definition of a portable tank and is rated under 1,000 gallons it does not require endorsement.

So completely empty and cleaned out 48 foot tankers cannot be driven without endorsement, and portable tanks must have a rating under 1000 gallons to be driven without endorsement. If it is rated for 1000 or more gallons but empty, you require endorsement. However this is only for tanks that are designed to transport any liquid or gaseous materials. Cokers and other large non-transport tanks need not apply.

Did I pass?

[Windwalker]

Tank Vehicle means any commercial motor vehicle that is designed to transport any liquid or gaseous materials within a tank that is either permanently or temporarily attached to the vehicle or the chassis. Such vehicles include, but are not limited to, cargo tanks and portable tanks, as defined in Part 171 (http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrguidedetails.asp?reg=r49CFR171) of this title. However, this definition does not include portable tanks having a rated capacity under 1,000 gallons.

Having had my tank endorsement all along, I've never worried, or even thought, about this. But, now, I'm a bit curious. LP tanks can range from 100 gallons to several thousand gallons. (the house in WI had a 1,000 gallon tank behind it) When delivering those tanks, are they considered as "portable"? Some I've seen would be over-sized loads to move as well. But, once they are delivered, they tend to remain stationary.

[allan5oh]

They wouldn't fit the definition unless they were specifically to transport material. If they're empty and remain stationary after delivery, they're not considered a tank vehicle.

[Windwalker]

They wouldn't fit the definition unless they were specifically to transport material. If they're empty and remain stationary after delivery, they're not considered a tank vehicle.
Flatbeds aren't considered tank vehicles either, but I have seen them with a huge neoprene (I think) bladder, 40 feet long, and about 7 1/2 feet wide, and when filled, they are about 4 feet high. About 8 4" straps holding them down to the bed. And, whatever was inside was liquid. What are they classed as?

[allan5oh]

That would be a portable tank, and if the rated capacity was 1000 gallons or more, it is a tank vehicle. However that's only if the bladder is NOT used to transport liquids/gases.

[Rev.Vassago]

I'm waiting for Golfhobo to give us the "official" answer.

[golfhobo]

I'm waiting for Golfhobo to give us the "official" answer.

Sorry to disappoint you. I'm not interested in this little "TEST" from our resident "driver hater." I recently got my tanker endorsement while getting my Triples so I could pull these wiggle wagons. I guess that means I'm good to go with a full tank of nasty chemicals! :lol:

So, it doesn't matter to me if it's a bladder on a flatbed or a tanker full of rancid milk! Just kick the tires and light the fires and I'm ready to roll! ;)

I didn't get to roll last night/today though, cuz they couldn't get the "local wusses" out to shuttle the local freight to the terminal, ergo.... nothing for me to haul to Kentucky! Dang I feel guilty enjoying this 3 day "snow" weekend! :hellno:

But, I noticed YOU didn't give an answer yet, Rev. You KNOW I never post an opinion till I see how wrong you are! :clap:

[allan5oh]

From what you guys see, anything wrong with my answer?

[Myth_Buster]

Allan5oh is correct, if the vehicle is a tank vehicle it requires a tank endorsement... No size is stipulated.

Windwalker:

Having had my tank endorsement all along, I've never worried, or even thought, about this. But, now, I'm a bit curious. LP tanks can range from 100 gallons to several thousand gallons. (the house in WI had a 1,000 gallon tank behind it) When delivering those tanks, are they considered as "portable"? Some I've seen would be over-sized loads to move as well. But, once they are delivered, they tend to remain stationary./

Stationary home LP tanks cannot be transported with more than 5% of product. There are some limitation reguarding how the tanks may be transported. Typically the bobtail delivery trucks fill the home tanks on site.

Flatbeds aren't considered tank vehicles either, but I have seen them with a huge neoprene (I think) bladder, 40 feet long, and about 7 1/2 feet wide, and when filled, they are about 4 feet high. About 8 4" straps holding them down to the bed. And, whatever was inside was liquid. What are they classed as?

If the flexible tank is filled and emptied from the vehicle, it is a tank vehicle:

Question 2: Are rubberized collapsible containers or ‘‘bladder bags’’ attached to a trailer considered a tank vehicle, thus requiring operators to obtain a CDL with a tank vehicle endorsement?

Guidance: Yes.

Be safe.

[Rev.Vassago]

But, I noticed YOU didn't give an answer yet, Rev. You KNOW I never post an opinion till I see how wrong you are! :clap:

You are clearly incapable of answering a question on your own, and resort to picking apart the answers of others. You were given a wonderful chance to show some true knowledge on the subject, and you fell flat on your face with your non-answer. I will take this into light every time you attempt to pick apart the knowledge of others, and will constantly quote your non-answer. (which is funny because you pick apart MB's posts as non-answers).

[Rev.Vassago]

Sorry to disappoint you. I'm not interested in this little "TEST" from our resident "driver hater." I recently got my tanker endorsement while getting my Triples so I could pull these wiggle wagons. I guess that means I'm good to go with a full tank of nasty chemicals! :lol:

So, it doesn't matter to me if it's a bladder on a flatbed or a tanker full of rancid milk! Just kick the tires and light the fires and I'm ready to roll! ;)

I didn't get to roll last night/today though, cuz they couldn't get the "local wusses" out to shuttle the local freight to the terminal, ergo.... nothing for me to haul to Kentucky! Dang I feel guilty enjoying this 3 day "snow" weekend! :hellno:

But, I noticed YOU didn't give an answer yet, Rev. You KNOW I never post an opinion till I see how wrong you are! :clap:

And just in case you attempt to edit your post, I'm saving a copy of the original by quoting it.

[golfhobo]

Rev.Vassago said:


You are clearly incapable of answering a question on your own, and resort to picking apart the answers of others.


Wrong. As I stated, I was clearly DISinterested in this topic. YOU drug me into the conversation (which I had no interest in posting about. Hey! Can I call that a "personal attack on someone who hadn't even posted on this thread?)


You were given a wonderful chance to show some true knowledge on the subject, and you fell flat on your face with your non-answer.


I show knowledge where knowledge is needed or when YOU misquote regs or rationale. I saw NO need to answer this question that related to nobody or nothing. And again I note that YOU failed to give an answer as well. So.... I guess YOU fell flat on your face as well. :roll:


I will take this into light every time you attempt to pick apart the knowledge of others, and will constantly quote your non-answer. (which is funny because you pick apart MB's posts as non-answers).


Like THAT would be an innovation for you! :rofl: But.... whatever! I guess things on CAD ARE getting a bit slow eh? I guess when you are married to it, as you now are, you must "fish" for controversy. Personally, I now have other things that require my time.

But, as a matter of fact, after reading the thread, I was GOING to throw my support behind Allan5Oh's answer. But, before I could DO so, M/B confirmed it to be true (to the extent that he has that power.)

However, as I"ve said many times before..... I don't talk about things that I don't know about, and I don't know that much about tanker yanking! Never needed to. But, if I ever DO.... be assured that I will know ALL that I need to know. And probably, as always, more than YOU. :clap:

[Jumbo]

My guess is 10 gallons. Same size as my hat.