Anything And Everything - Another religious/political/stupid law thread

Why is Polygamy illegal? Think carefully before you answer.

If it wasn't, we could probably catch up to the Muslims. Heard a story the other day about one that had some 20 wives and was shooting (pun intended) for 100 children. He was pretty close to it. :shock:

Why is Polygamy illegal?

Because the Polygamist's are so dam greedy. If it isn't enough to talk your wife into letting another woman move in. They should just be happy with that!

Or.... because the Democrats got jealous and decided since they can't talk their wives into letting them have another wife, no one is going too.

Seriously I don't have a clue. But if states are going to let 2 men get married or 2 women get married they should let a man have 2 wives. I guess I could just google it and see, but what fun would that be?

Why on earth would you want two wives?
I can't seem to get rid of the one I have now! :?

Well here's my take on it.. having laws against polygamy is basically archaic and of course illogical on the face of it. This is one issue where I side with the religious loonies!

As I've stated before, for the most part, heterosexual pedophilia is legal in this country in a lot of states. All a pedophile needs is permission from the parents or a priest and they can marry and have sex with a child.

Now lets create a scenario.. One man has a wife and a mistress or even several. Say that these people create offspring. This is still not legal and of course, happens quite commonly in this country. We have seen an explosion of out of wedlock births and to do that, these people are not simply going out to the movies. These people could all move into the same house and share the bills. This would not be common, but it would still be VERY legal.

Now lets talk about the equal protection under the law that this country is or was founded on. If this man wants to marry and takes care off the offspring under one roof instead of having and supporting families all over the place.. this guy goes to prison for being a freak or loonie?

Why on earth would you want two wives?
I can't seem to get rid of the one I have now! :?

Whoooo. :lol: :lol:

That aint even right. :P

Well here's my take on it.. having laws against polygamy is basically archaic and of course illogical on the face of it. This is one issue where I side with the religious loonies!

As I've stated before, for the most part, heterosexual pedophilia is legal in this country in a lot of states. All a pedophile needs is permission from the parents or a priest and they can marry and have sex with a child.

Now lets create a scenario.. One man has a wife and a mistress or even several. Say that these people create offspring. This is still not legal and of course, happens quite commonly in this country. We have seen an explosion of out of wedlock births and to do that, these people are not simply going out to the movies. These people could all move into the same house and share the bills. This would not be common, but it would still be VERY legal.

Now lets talk about the equal protection under the law that this country is or was founded on. If this man wants to marry and takes care off the offspring under one roof instead of having and supporting families all over the place.. this guy goes to prison for being a freak or loonie?

Poligamy wasn't ever a problem. That is until Joseph Smith and his band of crazies invented their little fake religion and really pissed people off. Then it was off to Utah where they would reproduce faster than a dog in heat. When the US Govt said they would remove Smith by force if they didn't stop poligamy, the "church/cult" suddenly heard a message from God that they should stop poligamy. How conveniant. :roll:

Well here's my take on it.. having laws against polygamy is basically archaic and of course illogical on the face of it. This is one issue where I side with the religious loonies!

As I've stated before, for the most part, heterosexual pedophilia is legal in this country in a lot of states. All a pedophile needs is permission from the parents or a priest and they can marry and have sex with a child.

Now lets create a scenario.. One man has a wife and a mistress or even several. Say that these people create offspring. This is still not legal and of course, happens quite commonly in this country. We have seen an explosion of out of wedlock births and to do that, these people are not simply going out to the movies. These people could all move into the same house and share the bills. This would not be common, but it would still be VERY legal.

Now lets talk about the equal protection under the law that this country is or was founded on. If this man wants to marry and takes care off the offspring under one roof instead of having and supporting families all over the place.. this guy goes to prison for being a freak or loonie?

Poligamy wasn't ever a problem. That is until Joseph Smith and his band of crazies invented their little fake religion and really pissed people off. Then it was off to Utah where they would reproduce faster than a dog in heat. When the US Govt said they would remove Smith by force if they didn't stop poligamy, the "church/cult" suddenly heard a message from God that they should stop poligamy. How conveniant. :roll:

It really doesn't matter why and this is really not even relevant when the standards of today are entered into the equation. When the majority can get away with common law polygamy, then another man ought not go to prison for it.

Poligamy wasn't ever a problem. That is until Joseph Smith and his band of crazies invented their little fake religion and really pissed people off. Then it was off to Utah where they would reproduce faster than a dog in heat. When the US Govt said they would remove Smith by force if they didn't stop poligamy, the "church/cult" suddenly heard a message from God that they should stop poligamy. How conveniant

Actually, there's nothing factual in that statement at all. Simply overblown hate propaganda. While there seems to be religious bashing on a lot of other boards, we try to keep that to a minimum on this board, whether you're talking Catholic, Mormon, Moonie, or whoever. Thanks for understanding.

Regarding your post, Joseph Smith never made it to Utah. He was killed in Illinois. Mob rule killed many men that had joined the church, to the point that there were few of them left. Murder is murder, no matter how you look at it and most of the murders left behind wives, mothers, and children. :cry:

The Mormons fled to Utah and settled there and that's where poligamy took hold. They never stopped it under threat from the government. They stopped it when there was no longer a 20 to 1 female to male ratio.

Hope that cleared things up.

When you look at the recent history of polygamy, it has been undertaken by less than savory individuals. David Koresh and his Branch Davidians and Warren Jeffs, Colorado City, UT, who was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list are two that pop into my head.

Polygamy these days can usually only be seen in occult-like, compound environments. Young girls are forced to marry and have sex with much older men. Failure to comply results in severe and illegal punishments. Human rights abuses are prevalent in polygamist compounds. There have been many women who have escaped from their polygamist captors and have told their stories of physical and sexual abuse.

IMHO polygamy is very dangerous for the women and children involved.

When you look at the recent history of polygamy, it has been undertaken by less than savory individuals. David Koresh and his Branch Davidians and Warren Jeffs, Colorado City, UT, who was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list are two that pop into my head.

Polygamy these days can usually only be seen in occult-like, compound environments. Young girls are forced to marry and have sex with much older men. Failure to comply results in severe and illegal punishments. Human rights abuses are prevalent in polygamist compounds. There have been many women who have escaped from their polygamist captors and have told their stories of physical and sexual abuse.

IMHO polygamy is very dangerous for the women and children involved.

Doesn't really address the topic. Heterosexual pedophilia is legal in this country.. all they have to do is marry them. Why were these people on the 10 most wanted list doesn't really mean anything about the polygamy. Unmarried polygamists to not get thrown in prison.

Why is Polygamy illegal? Think carefully before you answer.

Wow! The Mods must have told you I was HOME!! :lol:

Okay, I've thought about it, AND looked up a few words in the dictionary. Before I answer, let me point out a few things:


BEN said:

Or.... because the Democrats got jealous and decided since they can't talk their wives into letting them have another wife, no one is going too.

Obviously, you don't realize that almost ALL remnants of Religious Law are the property and responsibility of the Republicans and their "Moral Majority." The DEMOCRATS didn't "force" the terminology "Under God" into the Pledge of Allegiance, and are for Separation of Church and State.


Fozzy said:

Well here's my take on it.. having laws against polygamy is basically archaic and of course illogical on the face of it. This is one issue where I side with the religious loonies!

I don't "get this," Fozzy! If you think it is archaic and illogical, and the religious loonies are the ones saying it is illegal.... HOW can you "side with them?"

Oh.... you mean the Polygamists are the religious loonies!?!? I thought you were referring to the Conservatists! :wink:

As I've stated before, for the most part, heterosexual pedophilia is legal in this country in a lot of states. All a pedophile needs is permission from the parents or a priest and they can marry and have sex with a child.

I think there is a FEDERAL minimum of 16 yrs old. Up to 18 requires parental permission. Granted.... those are just children, but HISTORY shows that at times, the "age of consent" more equally correllated to puberty. I don't believe there is ANY federal law that allows pedophiles to marry "adolescents."


Greg said:

That is until Joseph Smith and his band of crazies invented their little fake religion and really pissed people off.

I'm not defending Mormonism, but.... let's see..... Joseph Smith and a few others said they met the disciples of Jesus in the wilderness and were given "powers and instructions" to form a new "church." A band of FISHERMEN in Gallilee said they met Jesus after he was dead and he told them to carry on his work. And Moses got his "instructions" from a BURNING BUSH. How is ONE "theory" more believable than the other?

And....

...where they would reproduce faster than a dog in heat.

NO faster than Catholics! :roll:


Fozzy said:

When the majority can get away with common law polygamy, then another man ought not go to prison for it.

Um..... NOT HAPPENING! Yes, there are common law marriages. But, there is NO provision for having MORE than one "common law" nor "civil" marriage. Having children "out of wedlock" (whether legally MARRIED at the time, or not,) is not the same as having MULTIPLE marriages, "common law" or not.


Twilight Flyer said:

Mob rule killed many men that had joined the [Mormon] church, to the point that there were few of them left. Murder is murder, no matter how you look at it and most of the murders left behind wives, mothers, and children.

And the same Bible "toted" by the Moral Majority says that when this happens, a man SHOULD take his Brother's wife as his own! [I guess this is what Fozzy meant.]


Colts Fan wrote:

When you look at the recent history of polygamy, it has been undertaken by less than savory individuals.

Not entirely true. With the obvious exceptions that you mentioned, MANY polygamous Mormons have been PILLARS of their communities. Utah is a VERY successful state. It didn't get that way within the last few years. No "homeless" drug addicts there!


Fozzy said:

Heterosexual pedophilia is legal in this country.. all they have to do is marry them.

Again, I disagree. However, IF given your idea of it, then HOMOSEXUAL pedophilia is JUST as "legal" in those states where such is allowed. If you're worried about pedophilia.... don't be "blinded" by the "sex" of the offenders OR their victims.


NOW for the definitons:

Polygamy - multiple MARRIAGES (wives OR husbands.)

Polyandry - two or more HUSBANDS at the same time.

Polygyny - two or more WIVES (or concubines) at the same time.

So, you see.... when one speaks of "polygamy" they usually mean "polygyny" and have never even HEARD of "polyandry!"


The original question was: Why is Polygamy illegal?

Because, as someone said some time ago, the original "settlers" of this country WERE, in fact, religious zealots who, though fleeing religious persecution, made the mistake of making their laws of a "religious nature" or at least, BASED on THEIR religious beliefs. It took nearly a HUNDRED years for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to "rectify" some (but not all) of these "injustices."

Because those in power, from the administration down to the heavily influenced House of Representatives, and including the POLITICALLY appointed and manipulated Supreme Court, serve NOT the Constitution and the rights of the individual, but AT THE WILL of those who can keep them in power or office, and the MORAL MAJORITY in this country owns most of the power, land and money.

And.... because these people do NOT truly cherish the "land of the free" nor do they understand the meaning of "Free from OPPRESSION." They want America to be FREE to exist ONLY within the confines of their "narrow minds." [i.e. Religious Beliefs]

Although I don't think Polygamy is such a good idea, I can't... from a purely LEGAL or CONSTITUTIONAL point of view, see why it SHOULD be Illegal. Who is is hurting?

It is Illegal.... SOLELY because it "offends" the sensitivities of the MORAL PRUDES in this country, who believe that THEIR belief in God gives them the right AND responsibility to confuse THEIR bedrooms with MY OWN! :shock:

BEN said: Or.... because the Democrats got jealous and decided since they can't talk their wives into letting them have another wife, no one is going too.

Obviously, you don't realize that almost ALL remnants of Religious Law are the property and responsibility of the Republicans and their "Moral Majority." The DEMOCRATS didn't "force" the terminology "Under God" into the Pledge of Allegiance, and are for Separation of Church and State.

I'm just joking on the whole thing. Was just that Slick Willy came to mind first when I think of politics and extra women.

BEN said: Or.... because the Democrats got jealous and decided since they can't talk their wives into letting them have another wife, no one is going too.

Obviously, you don't realize that almost ALL remnants of Religious Law are the property and responsibility of the Republicans and their "Moral Majority." The DEMOCRATS didn't "force" the terminology "Under God" into the Pledge of Allegiance, and are for Separation of Church and State.

I'm just joking on the whole thing. Was just that Slick Willy came to mind first when I think of politics and extra women.

Yeah.... I kinda figured that. It didn't really make sense! :lol: I just figured that I'd get a dig in on the NeoCon/Moral Majority while I was busy giving a "serious" answer! :lol:

"Slick Willy" (as you call him) wasn't trying to get another WIFE! Heck... ONE was enough! He just wanted some of what his wife never GAVE him! :lol:

Personally, I don't think it is FAIR or RIGHT for the President of the U.S. to have blue balls!

Maybe some men with a super ego and an unhealthy level of self importance are fine with 10 women. A society that condones this has low regard for its women.

Colts Fan wrote:
When you look at the recent history of polygamy, it has been undertaken by less than savory individuals. David Koresh and his Branch Davidians and Warren Jeffs, Colorado City, UT, who was on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted list are two that pop into my head.

Polygamy these days can usually only be seen in occult-like, compound environments. Young girls are forced to marry and have sex with much older men. Failure to comply results in severe and illegal punishments. Human rights abuses are prevalent in polygamist compounds. There have been many women who have escaped from their polygamist captors and have told their stories of physical and sexual abuse.

IMHO polygamy is very dangerous for the women and children involved.


Doesn't really address the topic. Heterosexual pedophilia is legal in this country.. all they have to do is marry them. Why were these people on the 10 most wanted list doesn't really mean anything about the polygamy. Unmarried polygamists to not get thrown in prison.

When has pedophilia ever been legal??? What the hell is wrong with you?!?!

And golfhobo, polygamy has been illegal in UT for a long time and the Mormon church denounces it.

When has pedophilia ever been legal??? What the hell is wrong with you?!?!


Try keeping up with the topic much? It is legal for men to marry children in several states.. one state JUST added a minimum age recently.. before they had no minimum age. As long as the legal guardian and of course some shlub of preacher OK's it, a man can marry a child here.

Maybe some men with a super ego and an unhealthy level of self importance are fine with 10 women. A society that condones this has low regard for its women.

ChapChap:

I am NOT one who has a low regard for women. I am certainly for EQUAL rights! But, let's face facts. In the 19th Century, just after we won the war of Independence, and started to "settle" the WEST, this was definitely a Man's country!

MEN fought the BEARS and the Mountain Lions! Men hunted the deer to feed the family. Men circled the wagons and fought the spears and arrows of "Native Americans."

Women were "protected," and diied ONLY when the MEN failed!

Funny thing is..... at that time, WOMEN were actually treated much BETTER than they are today. They were "revered" for their ability to bear the NECESSARY offspring, and (though never really given credit) for their ability to "keep camp." But, they weren't expected to "bring home the bacon, etc."

I agree with you about the EGO of men, but there IS a bit of precedence to explain it. In TODAY'S world.... NO, I don't believe it is necessary NOR acceptable.

But, there WAS a time, right about the time of the Mormon settlements, when it was NOT such a bad idea.... at least not for the newly widowed woman facing a harsh winter! :shock:

We're talking about a time JUST after a war fought for our independence, and before we even KNEW the WORLD would be at war. A time when we were CONSUMED by our own "importance" vis a vis the Natives, and a time when the government was just a bunch of guys in a city on the East Coast!

Times were dangerous, and women were fragile and IMPORTANT to a "settlement." Children were a future "workforce," and "political correctness" wasn't even in the Lexicon! :shock: :roll:

I don't know, but given the environment of the times, I for one have a bit of trouble "passing judgement" on those who "blazed the trails" that I ride so freely on today.... looking for the nearest truckstop or ice cream stand!

I agree with Fozzy on the face of it. I can’t come up with a valid reason why a man or woman who wants to have more than one husband or wife; can’t…in fact, it was the norm in the Old Testament. Does anybody know from US history why this was put into law?

But….Mormons (Fundamental Mormons that is) believe that they cannot become their own god and have their own heaven unless they have at least a minimum of 7 (or 9...I’m fuzzy on the exact number) of wives. And the more children they have the more there will be to populate the new heaven that they are the god of. That is where I have an issue with polygamy. In their world, women become simply objects of a man’s otherworldly ambition. They are not equal and are reduced to being child bearing machines and the more wives and children a man has, the better he (and not she) is set up in the hereafter. In addition, the women then become virtual prisoners in the extended family because they are all uneducated, have a BUNCH of kids, and would have no ability to make it on their own on the outside world. They are stuck. It is truly a man’s world in Fundamental Mormanism. That is the problem I have with polygamy (or polygyny)…as it is practiced in Mormonism.
Now the rest of Mormonism today is not that way and they (of course at the risk of the US government invading Utah not some M/FM quota being reached) banned that practice 100 yrs or so ago.

I don't know if I would want more than one wife, but if I could, I guess I would.. King David had more than one, and he was a man after Gods own heart.

But….Mormons (Fundamental Mormons that is) believe that they cannot become their own god and have their own heaven unless they have at least a minimum of 7 (or 9...I’m fuzzy on the exact number) of wives.

Fundamentalist wack-jobs are not Mormons and are no different than any other fundie wack-job creating splinter groups from any other church or church teaching.

Now the rest of Mormonism today is not that way and they (of course at the risk of the US government invading Utah not some M/FM quota being reached) banned that practice 100 yrs or so ago.

You might brush up on your history a wee bit. We're not talking quotos. We're talking about the REASON that Mormons practiced polygamy back then. The reasons are varied but boils down to the fact that there were not a whole heck of a lot of men. The practice was ended when the threat of extinction of themselves and their beliefs was ended and not due to any threat from the government. It was threats from the government that put them out in Utah in the first place...that and a whole lot of mob mentality in states like Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri.

That said, regarding the actual practice of polygamy, I can't fathom it myself and it goes completely against my own moral fiber. But I can understand the Mormon practice of it back then to ensure their survival. Just like I can understand why a lot of Muslims practice it today. :?

Excerped from: http://www.media.utah.edu/UHE/p/POLYGAMY.html

When establishing the LDS Church, Joseph Smith recorded numerous revelations he claimed to receive, often in answer to questions about the Bible, which are now included in the Doctrine and Covenants, part of the LDS canon. In answer to his question as to why many of the Old Testament leaders had more than one wife, Smith received what is now known as Section 132. Although the revelation was not recorded until 1843, Smith may have received it in the 1830s and married his first plural wife, Fanny Alger, in 1835. Polygamy was not openly practiced in the Mormon Church until 1852 when Orson Pratt, an apostle, made a public speech defending it as a tenet of the church. From 1852 until 1890, Mormon Church leaders preached and encouraged members, especially those in leadership positions, to marry additional wives.

Reactions from outside the church to statements about polygamy were immediate and negative. In 1854 the Republican party termed polygamy and slavery the "twin relics of barbarism." In 1862 the United States Congress passed the Morrill Act, which prohibited plural marriage in the territories, disincorporated the Mormon Church, and restricted the church's ownership of property. The nation was in the midst of the Civil War, however, and the law was not enforced. In 1867 the Utah Territorial Legislature asked Congress to repeal the Morrill Act. Instead of doing that, the House Judiciary Committee asked why the law was not being enforced, and the Cullom Bill, an attempt to strengthen the Morrill Act, was introduced. Although it did not pass, most of its provisions later became law. Out of a number of other bills introduced during the 1870s against polygamy, only the Poland Act passed, in 1874. It gave district courts all civil and criminal jurisdiction and limited the probate courts to matters of estate settlement, guardianship, and divorce.

The Mormons continued to practice polygamy despite these laws, since they believed that the practice were protected by the freedom of religion clause in the Bill of Rights. To test the constitutionality of the laws, George Reynolds, Brigham Young's private secretary, agreed to be tried. In 1879 the case reached the Supreme Court, which upheld the Morrill Act: "Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinion, they may with practices."

All of these pressures had an impact on the church, even though they did not compel the Latter-day Saints to abolish polygamy. Church leaders as well as many of its members went into hiding--on the "underground" as it was called--either to avoid arrest or to avoid having to testify. Mormon Church President John Taylor died while in hiding. His successor, Wilford Woodruff, initially supported the continued practice of polygamy; however, as pressure increased, he began to change the church's policy. On 26 September 1890 he issued a press release, the Manifesto, which read, "I publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriages forbidden by the law of the land." The Manifesto was approved at the church's general conference on 6 October 1890.

Fundamentalist groups who believe that the church discontinued polygamy only because of government pressure continued the practice. As they were discovered by the LDS Church, they were excommunicated. Some of these polygamists have appointed leaders and continue to live in groups, including those in Colorado City (formerly Short Creek), Arizona, and Hilldale, Utah.



TF....

I truly have no wish or reason to argue. Facts are...most of what is printed above are not facts or have been embellished or demonized to the point where they are as outlandish as most other anti- literature. In the end, you are certainly welcome to believe what you wish to believe. I have more of a vested interest in actualities, have studied the history long and hard, have posted as such, and will end my comments with that. Thanks.

Why is Polygamy illegal? Think carefully before you answer.Because it offended the moral sensibilities of the legislative body that wrote its abolition into law.

What's why it's illegal, but it does miss the point. Why did it offend the moral sensibilities of the legislative body?

I don't know. I would guess it has something to do with modern Christian thinking, since Christian thinking provides the moral skeleton upon which most of this country's laws are built upon. I can't begin to get into the theology behind this. I'm not a Christian.