Germany quitting nuclear power

[MichiganDriver]

It didn't seem to get much attention but Germany has announced it won't use nuclear power after 2022. If you didn't hear about it, search google news for links.

What do you think about this? I thought the German people were renowned engineers. They can't engineer safety into nuclear power plants? This sounds ridiculous to me.

[Windwalker]

It didn't seem to get much attention but Germany has announced it won't use nuclear power after 2022. If you didn't hear about it, search google news for links.

Yes, I did hear about Germany, and I think there may be a couple of others too. What happened in Japan really hit home.

What do you think about this? I thought the German people were renowned engineers. They can't engineer safety into nuclear power plants? This sounds ridiculous to me.

Actually, I think they're being realists. No matter how well you engineer a concept, Mother Nature seems to have a way of showing us that we didn't do a good enough job of it. Fortunately, Japan has a lot of ocean down wind of it. Germany has a lot of land and a lot of people down wind of it. How many countries and lives do they want to risk? They simply are not willing to bet that the benefits will outweigh the hazards. And, I don't blame them. Any idea how long the radioactive waste has to be stored before it's safe to handle? Can you guarantee that an underground storage facility won't be compromised over the next 10,000 years? Fact is, you can't guarantee it for the next 100 years. (Some of the waste compounds have a half-life of 1,000 years. It takes 10 half-lives before they are safe to handle) And, right here in this country, we've had one of those "College-educated Rocket Scientist" suggest putting a high-level nuclear waste site right on top of a fault line. I think the countries that are backing down from nuclear power are taking the common sense approach.

[One]

Yup! If there are other ways to generate energy, why choose the one type that requires constant supervision and temperature control for hundreds of years?
Germany in general is taking an admirable approach...decentralizing production...I visited a small town with ONE traffic light, it has about double the power generating capacity in solar and wind power that it needs...so if the rest of the world ceased to exist, this village would still have power! Germany has had a lot of success incentivising people to mount solar cells on thier roofs and communities to build wind mills to where they cancelled the building of several planned nuclear plants! Now Japan is planning on doing the same, decentralize production to increase energy safety and stability.

[MichiganDriver]

I heard on the radio today that Germany just announced that it's going to double it's usage of both coal and natural gas - fossil fuels.

I don't love nuclear by any means but we need to remember that there are risks with other fuel sources too. Climate change is practically a certainty for starters. And look at the number of people that die every year over oil. The number of people that have actually died from nuclear power generation is a very small number.

[One]

I heard on the radio today that Germany just announced that it's going to double it's usage of both coal and natural gas - fossil fuels.

I don't love nuclear by any means but we need to remember that there are risks with other fuel sources too. Climate change is practically a certainty for starters. And look at the number of people that die every year over oil. The number of people that have actually died from nuclear power generation is a very small number.

If they are shifting to fossil fuels to fill the production gap that sad but sure to be temporary untill solar and wind production is expanded.
As to deaths due to nuclear power...we can say that the number of deaths directly due to nuclear power is low, but we cannot measure the amount of cancers resulting from radiation. I remember when chernobyl happened, people had to stay indoors for days, couldnt eat half the food produced and governments kept upping the safe level of radiation in food...to avert a food crisis and minimize the cost to farmers im sure. There is NO SAFE LEVEL of radiation, any amount can cause cancer, but more radiation increases the likelyhood.

[Windwalker]

If they are shifting to fossil fuels to fill the production gap that sad but sure to be temporary untill solar and wind production is expanded.
As to deaths due to nuclear power...we can say that the number of deaths directly due to nuclear power is low, but we cannot measure the amount of cancers resulting from radiation. I remember when chernobyl happened, people had to stay indoors for days, couldnt eat half the food produced and governments kept upping the safe level of radiation in food...to avert a food crisis and minimize the cost to farmers im sure. There is NO SAFE LEVEL of radiation, any amount can cause cancer, but more radiation increases the likelyhood.

This may be subject to change.

Germany has been one of the world leaders in innovation. We owe a great deal of our space and nuclear programs to German engineers from WWII. Is it also possible that they are able to recognize some serious dangers before the rest of the world? Things that we are finding out today?

Radioactive tritium leaks found at 48 US nuke sites - US news - Environment - msnbc.com

It seems that 3/4 of our own nuclear plants are leaking, and have been leaking, radiation into the groundwater for some years now. And, as time passes, we're getting more leaks, and more serious leaks. They're already coming faster than we can fix them. What happens over the next 20 odd years? Tritium may be a "short-lived" form of radioactive hydrogen, but being short lived and being found miles away from the plant says the problem is already serious, when you see that groundwater moves at a rate of about 3 feet per year (unless it gets into an underground water vein).

Perhaps, German Science has seen that the best way to combat this problem is not to have it in the first place. Especially considering that radioactive groundwater can be far more serious than greenhouse gasses.

[GPC]

I don't really have a problem with nuclear power. I think it's the best option untill we get more wind and solar power around here.

[Mr. Ford95]

Right GPC. Until wind and solar becomes more efficient and more affordable, nukes are the way to go. I looked into solar panels, by the time I start making money after they have paid for themselves, I'd be 130 years old. The prices must come down for them to be viable.

Speaking of solar power, remember what a year ago, the WH said they were going to put solar panels back on top of the WH? Radio report yesterday said that plan has been scrapped due to DC's laws and red tape. Yet another strike against solar right there, local govt's won't allow them put on building's in some places.

As for Germany quitting the Nuke plants, we've had what, 3 incidents around the world over how many years now? Other than Chernobyl, very few people have lost their lives due to radiation issues. How many miners have lost their lives digging for coal to power the coal plants in the same time period, many more than Chernobyl. Germans are smart but this is a knee-jerk reaction by them.

[Windwalker]

As for Germany quitting the Nuke plants, we've had what, 3 incidents around the world over how many years now? Other than Chernobyl, very few people have lost their lives due to radiation issues. How many miners have lost their lives digging for coal to power the coal plants in the same time period, many more than Chernobyl. Germans are smart but this is a knee-jerk reaction by them.

I don't know about that. There are a number of areas where we have a potential disaster when it comes to nuclear power. It isn't just the radiation that could leak from the plant, like 3 Mile Island. Accidental release, as listed in the news article. The plumbing aging and rusting, as listed in the article. Waste storage is another issue that was not listed in the article. For that matter, the waste issues were brought up more than twenty years ago. And, it isn't just the waste itself, but also the choices of places to store it. The issues of an accident at a plant has been demonstrated quite well over the past years. I'm far more concerned about the issues that have not surfaced yet. That is where the real potential for disaster lies. Problems that have not yet come to light. All it takes is a rodent in the right place at the wrong time, and a circuit that isn't tested in a year or so.

For decades, I've been hearing and reading about all the "redundancies" in nuclear reactors. Yet, all those redundancies did no good at all for Japan. Nature can be overwhelming like the largest and worst tsunami in recorded history. But, nature can also be very subtle, and the result can be just as deadly. And, every time we think we have all the bases covered, nature is more than willing to show us something we've overlooked. I don't know what that is, but I'm sure it's out there somewhere. Just like fossil fuels, we're going to have to come up with something to replace nuclear energy as well.