China wants a "PEEK" at US technology.

[Windwalker]

It's all over the news tonight. Pakistan is "hinting" that China wants a "PEEK" at the helicopter left behind during the Bin Laden Raid. And, since Pakistan has had closer ties with China than the US, they might get it. The anti-radar technology wasn't completely destroyed. The tail is still intact. But, the audio technology in the main body of the chopper should have been destroyed beyond recognition. If small particles remain, even if burned, they are quite good at "reverse engineering", and they turn out more Phd's than we do. If they can trace back enough circuits, simple logical reasoning does have a chance to come up with the rest. If they do come up with it, the circuits may not be exactly the same as ours, but close enough to trace it's origin back.

I don't know how we can stop them from getting a look. I'm sure another raid by the seals would not work out in our best favor either.

[golfhobo]

I heard that we were not overly concerned about the stealth technology aspect. We are not the only ones that have it. They can come up with that on their own. However.... I heard that much of the computer hardware for all OTHER systems on the helo were in the tail! As for the circuitry? We probably bought it from THEM! But.... the systems integration and capabilities might be something we don't want them to see. Pakistan "might" let them peek, but it SHOULD cost them about 3 Billion a year in foreign aid!!!

I can't help wondering why ANY aircraft used for such a raid didn't have "self-destruction" capability??

[Windwalker]

I heard that we were not overly concerned about the stealth technology aspect. We are not the only ones that have it. They can come up with that on their own. However.... I heard that much of the computer hardware for all OTHER systems on the helo were in the tail! As for the circuitry? We probably bought it from THEM! But.... the systems integration and capabilities might be something we don't want them to see. Pakistan "might" let them peek, but it SHOULD cost them about 3 Billion a year in foreign aid!!!

I had not heard where the computer components were located. I suppose that it would make sense to fit them in the tail. But, I believe that in the interest of national security, military components are not permitted to be supplied by foreign countries. Of course, I could be wrong on that one. (Yes, I did catch your laugh.)

I can't help wondering why ANY aircraft used for such a raid didn't have "self-destruction" capability??

How comfortable would you feel riding in something that could disintegrate if a glitch showed up? Someone would come up with a way to hook a computer to it.

[repete]

How comfortable would you feel riding in something that could disintegrate if a glitch showed up? Someone would come up with a way to hook a computer to it.

We used to, ever ride in the Chinook?

[Windwalker]

We used to, ever ride in the Chinook?

They weren't covered with thermite paint with the fuse connected to a computer.

[Roadhog]

Pakistani military are better friends with the Chinese, than they are with us.
I'm sure China has already seen everything.

I hear locals near the compound said electricity and cell phones were knocked out during the raid,
and came back on, after the SEAL's left.

[GMAN]

I hear locals near the compound said electricity and cell phones were knocked out during the raid,
and came back on, after the SEAL's left.

I was probably just a coincidence.

[Windwalker]

Pakistani military are better friends with the Chinese, than they are with us.
I'm sure China has already seen everything.

I hear locals near the compound said electricity and cell phones were knocked out during the raid,
and came back on, after the SEAL's left.

No surprise to me. Cops do that too when they have a drug raid. They make cell phones inop so that the people in the area can't alert a suspect that may arrive while the raid is going on. More than one has been known to walk in on it.

Got cell phone, got warning...
Cell phone don't work... No warning.

And, yes, I did hear that report too. Something I would have expected. They were not in any position to receive surprise house guests.

[golfhobo]

I'm not questioning what Roadhog says he "heard," but I couldn't find anything about it by googling. But, I don't think it is true. I say this for several reasons from what we DO know..... I wasn't there.

1) We now know that the SEALS used helmet cams to tape the whole thing. I"m pretty sure this is wireless technology which wouldn't have worked if the cellphones had been shut down by any kind of EMP. The only OTHER way, is with the cooperation of the gov't of Pakistan.... which we didn't have.

2) There are reports of a guy sitting at home across the street (more or less) who was TWEETING about the raid as it happened. He was obviously using a computer that was either powered by electricity, or a laptop that would have probably been using a wireless "air card." Again.... it would have been disabled if electricity and cellphone bandwith had been suppressed.

3) Just a guess, but I doubt the team would have wanted a bunch of people (especially the nearby military contingents) out in the streets wondering why their electricity and/or their wireless service had suddenly gone out.

Like I said.... I haven't HEARD one way or the other, and I don't KNOW. I'm just giving my opinion.

[Windwalker]

I'm not questioning what Roadhog says he "heard," but I couldn't find anything about it by googling. But, I don't think it is true. I say this for several reasons from what we DO know..... I wasn't there.

1) We now know that the SEALS used helmet cams to tape the whole thing. I"m pretty sure this is wireless technology which wouldn't have worked if the cellphones had been shut down by any kind of EMP. The only OTHER way, is with the cooperation of the gov't of Pakistan.... which we didn't have.

2) There are reports of a guy sitting at home across the street (more or less) who was TWEETING about the raid as it happened. He was obviously using a computer that was either powered by electricity, or a laptop that would have probably been using a wireless "air card." Again.... it would have been disabled if electricity and cellphone bandwith had been suppressed.

3) Just a guess, but I doubt the team would have wanted a bunch of people (especially the nearby military contingents) out in the streets wondering why their electricity and/or their wireless service had suddenly gone out.

Like I said.... I haven't HEARD one way or the other, and I don't KNOW. I'm just giving my opinion.

It has nothing to do with electricity being shut down. Even back when I was aboard ship in the Navy, we had a "radio black-out" device. It looked like a flashlight, but step outside of the superstructure and turn it on, and it blankets the area with interference that prevents any radio reception on all frequencies. Over the last 45 years, don't you think they can advance the technology so that it narrows down to what ever frequency they want to disrupt? I also heard a report that cell phones didn't work till the Seals left. I would be very surprised if they don't have the technology to the point that all civilian communications are disrupted, but military bands are completely clear. That prevents the Pakistani equivalent of a 911 call, and the Seals don't have to worry about the local police getting involved. And, actually, the concept is very simple. A "white noise" generator that splatters across all frequencies. Then, add in a band-stop filter so that the military channels are clear and you've got it. A cell phone must first receive a signal in order to work. White noise is not a signal that identifies a communications tower in the area. So.....

1. It does not disrupt electricity

2. It does not stop computer technology that is connected "wired" to the internet.

3. By selecting the band that is blanked out, the "live-feed" video would still work fine on a clear military channel.

[golfhobo]

Interesting reply, Windy. I'll have to do a little research to bolster my beliefs to the contrary. But, just to let you know where my thinking is:

1. It does not disrupt electricity

But Roadie's account says it DID. The SEALS might have cut electric power to the compound, but not the whole block.

2. It does not stop computer technology that is connected "wired" to the internet.

If the neighbor was "wired" through broadband, he would still need a modem, either powered with electricity or a laptop battery. [Batteries are also affected by electronic pulse devices.]

Since I DOUBT that Pakistan had broadband cable extended to that deadend street in the suburbs, I'm still thinking "wireless." 3G or 4G is a HUGE radio frequency bandwidth. I'm not sure your "flashlight" could generate SUPPRESSING white noise over that entire frequency without a huge power source.

[Back in your time, any radio transmissions TO A SHIP were analog and on a single frequency (even IF they were satellite relayed,) WE knew the freqs for every ship in the world, and could easily block that small freq range. I'm not familiar with the device you mentioned, but I believe it could be over-ridden with enough RF gain (and a change of freqs.) There is "white noise" on all freqs.

3. By selecting the band that is blanked out, the "live-feed" video would still work fine on a clear military channel.

Ah yes.... the old "notch filter." Yes, that would protect that SMALL frequency band, but it would ONLY be effective IF the DIGITAL cams were routed thru an ANALOG transmitter. But, we both know that "digitization" (which didn't exist during your time,) "rasters" the signal RANDOMLY over the entire RF bandwidth.

Video takes up MORE of the badwidth, and in large blocks. I don't see any way that the U.S. military could receive "real time," (as was explained,) a clear video signal that requires the entire bandwidth, if only a "notch" was filtered out.

But, like I said.... I'll have to do some research. I've been out of the business for a long time. [As I'm sure your "flashlight" has.]

[Windwalker]

Sorry, Hobo, but you lose that one. Even digital cell phones communicate over a modulated RF carrier frequency. Look up the formulas on "field strength". All you have to do is "wash out" the RF carrier, and the cell phone is out of order. Even if the white noise generator reaches the cell phone at the same intensity as the tower, the receiver is unable to pick one over the other. It's still a modulated carrier, and it can still be disrupted in the same manner. And, when you do find the formulas on field strength, here's a problem for you. (No, I do not know if this is the same situation as in Pakistan)

The cell tower is 3 miles away from the receiver (phone).
You are 1/4 mile from the receiver.
If the cell tower is putting out 500 milliwatts, how much power do you have to put out to match the signal at the receiver (phone)?

(Questions of this nature are on the exams to get a 1st or 2nd class FCC license.)

[Roadhog]

(scrape-thunk... scrape-thunk... scrape-thunk)
(my good foot fell asleep)

Garrh! I knew it!!
Shania's been using that gizmo on my phone.
I get more than 'white noise' tho....
they probably have the squelch turn all the way up.

[Roadhog]

(scrape-thunk... scrape-thunk... scrape-thunk)
(my good foot fell asleep)

(Garrh...wait a minute...
thunk-scrape... thunk-scrape... thunk-scrape)
(Yar ...that's better)

[GMAN]

I am sure Obama would have just given China the technology they wanted had they only asked. After all, Clinton gave them the technology to make their ICBM's more accurate so they could be more accurate if they decided to target U.S. cities. It is only fair that they have the same technology to make warfare "fair."

[Roadhog]

I'm sure they are too afraid to use it.
Think about it... would you use anything the Chinese handed you with a smile??