GMAN said:
How many hetero couples are all that happy? But, that's not the point. What I want you to consider is that, it should be no surprise that people who "discover" that they have such an orientation are constantly dealing with an internal conflict BECAUSE most of society... and ALL of religion.... tells them they are inferior, or sinful, or unacceptable. For YEARS in this country (moreso than others due to our highly RELIGIOUS focus,) homosexuals DID "hide" their proclivities and activities. Many married to cover it up. Others lived very solitary and unhappy lives. But, their depression had less to do with their orientation than it did with the fact that they had to live "in the closet." They were not as FREE as other Americans... or even humans.
You are trying to insinuate that they were unhappy due to their very, and natural, BEING. I am trying to say that their conflict was BOTH internal AND external. I once coined the phrase "Religious abuse." I feel strongly that many people feel conflict in their personal lives simply because they've been "indoctrinated" to believe they are inferior. You would say, of course, that their conflict is due to sinning against God. But, really.... consider for just ONE moment that
IF there IS no God.... they are struggling with "PERCEPTION."
I am confident that some of the depression that homosexuals suffer has to do with the inner conflict they must have to deal.
I appreciate that (on their behalf.) Of course... YOU have no right to condemn them anyways. As I have already said.... I agree about the "in your face" part.
I don't try to force my heterosexuality on homosexuals. I see no need for them to try to force their lifestyle on me. Not all do.
This MAY be a biased opinion and not necessarily FACT. However... I DO understand your position here. I STRUGGLE with this one myself! I believe that our (PUBLIC) schools, at least, are meant to educate our children and future decision makers. Much as I would rather have the subject discussed at home, I feel that some discussion (without judgment) should take place in our schools in order to prevent violence, discrimination, and ostracization. I can't trust what would be "taught" at home.
On the other hand, I feel that sometimes they (the liberals) go too far in advancing their ideal.... which is
mostly JUST to have an equal rights society. SOME of them
do get too involved. Children SHOULD be taught not to ostracize Johnny because he has two Mothers.... or because HE doesn't show an early interest in the idea of male domination and USURY of the female sex. But, they don't need to have "alternative sex education" crammed down their young and impressionable throats.
Elementary school children don't need to be taught about homosexuality. They don't even know or understand about sex at that age. Children should be taught about respect at home. They can also be taught respect at school. They don't need to be taught about sex. In fact, most of us figure the sex thing out for ourselves. Since sex education was started in schools, we have seen an almost epidemic of children having sex and babies early. I think there is a direct correlation. We perceive that men dominate the world, but it is really women who run things.
As IF they aren't SUPPOSED to be as nice as Hetero's??? See, THIS is what was meant by alluding to the "some of my best friends are black" statement. I know what you mean.... but, it DOES come across to some as being DEMEANING... in that it "supposes" that there is something inferior about them (or blacks) but that, well.... there
ARE some good ones. Or that "WE" are somehow absolved of our discriminatory SIN because we can "claim" some connection
TO them.
Some would say, of course, that whereas prostitution might be a "life choice," one's sexual identity is NOT. I really don't KNOW which is "fact" about homosexuality.... so, I tend NOT to draw conclusions. If it is a choice, only
religious indoctrination (abuse) would cause me to make judgments. If it is "evolutionary science," then I can accept it a bit easier because I see so many examples of it in NATURE.
Men and women
are "made different" for the SAME reasons that male and female of EVERY animal on earth is.... procreation of the species (which sounds more like a SCIENTIFIC theory/fact than a RELIGIOUS mandate.) But, that doesn't mean EVERY animal or human is needed for, or destined to, reproduce! In fact, I believe Ayn Rand would agree with me that SOME should NOT reproduce!
We don't really know if homosexuals are a product of nature or it is environment. I have heard arguments on both sides. I do know that homosexuals have been with us for nearly as long as man has existed on this earth.
Homosexuals HAVE always been in the military. They have always BEEN in our communities, churches, schools, etc. Mostly, they hid in closets and JUST wanted to be "left alone!"
In fact.... there are quite a few "wealthy" vicars, bishops and priests in the Catholic Church (the remnant of the Christian takeover of the Roman Empire,) who WISH the light had not been shown on them! But, there is a BIG difference between sexual freedom between two consenting ADULTS and the pedophilia you referred to in the Roman Empire.... or that continues (predominantly) in the Catholic church.
I agree. Anyone who thinks a child is sexy or harms a child is the worst of the worst. No punishment is too severe for anyone that would hurt a child. God addressed this in the Bible, too.
I would hope that we ALL try to refrain from calling names. People are entitled to their own OPINIONS. I don't think we KNOW all the "facts" about the cause of homosexuality... any more than we know all the "facts" about global warming! But, I would think that people SHOULD be able to change their minds or beliefs IF the FACTS are ever proven to be irrefutable. Moreover, I would hope that it wouldn't REALLY make that much difference in a country founded on "INDIVIDUAL freedoms."
Name calling only divides people. We should be able to disagree with someone on their views without attacking them personally. I think personal attacks are used to cover up the fact that the attacker has no facts to back up their point of view. It is counter productive.
I'm not sure I agree. I don't believe that the "greatness" NOR the "exceptionality" of this nation are based solely on... nor DEPENDENT on.... the extent to which we adhere or are GOVERNED by... RELIGION! Our Constitution forbids it.... and our forefathers FEARED it!
This country was in part based upon religious freedom. They didn't want to have a state sponsored religion, such as the Church of England. They wanted to be free to express their religious freedom without interference from the government. Unfortunately, our government continues to interfere with our religious freedoms.
They are NOT. They are only asking for the SAME "civil" rights and benefits that heterosexual couples enjoy. Personally, I am more concerned with the discrimination against SINGLE (heterosexual) people like myself!
But.... what if there IS no god? He's not a proven fact, and I am only asking you to consider the CONSTITUTION that you speak so much about, and the RIGHTS it affords to EVERY citizen. You speak of the "test," well.... where in the Constitution does it give the government ANY power to regulate peoples' sex lives or even their MARRIAGES????
I think that there is proof of God all around us. But, freedom is based upon our right to make our own decisions concerning God and how we live our lives.
And it most clearly DOES prohibit the government from making ANY laws that would indicate it's "Establishment of a religion" for the purpose of letting that religious "voting block" influence the administration of government and the equal protection of the LAW.
I understand where you are coming from, GMAN. And I have no problem with your religious beliefs. I just want you to see that there IS.... and SHOULD be... a "separation of church and state" when it comes to the administration of our government based on the very FOUNDING document we live and DIE for.
Originally Posted by GMAN
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