Jesus MAY have been a Socialist

[golfhobo]

Much is made of the phrase, attributed to Karl Marx, that:

"From those according to their ability, to those according to their need."

There is no argument that this quote is attributed to Karl Marx, and has been considered the basis of the Socialist / Communist ideology.

Of course, the truth is that it was adapted from statements by two other individuals, but they didn't have his "media impact."

But, long before Marx or any other Communist appeared on the political scene, these words were used to teach people how to realize that their "benefits" came not from their own works or abilities, but from god.... and that they should be shared so that the "greater work" could be done.

From Wikipedia and other sources:

The phrase may also find an earlier origin in the New Testament. In Acts 4:32-35, the Apostles lifestyle is described as communal (without individual possession), and uses the phrase "distribution was made unto every man according as he had need":

“ 32. And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35. And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. ”

Y'all thought I was kidding when I said that Jesus was a Liberal! Think of the Sermon on the Mount and the "miracle" of the loaves and fishes. Was it meant to show that Jesus could do miracles? Or might it have been a parable to teach a story about "redistribution of food/wealth" ??

I don't know. I'm just asking for others to think about it and comment.

I bring this up becuase it was the focus of Glenn Beck's show on Fox News tonight. In his effort to grasp at any straw to demonize Obama and his politics, he may have failed to notice the "spirit" lurking behind him who actually DID first inspire this concept.

I report.... YOU decide.

As with MOST great quotes of history.... the origin is often not of their own.... but, of the Biblical teaching that they received and cannot escape.

[terrylamar]

The concept is great as long as it is voluntary as in the Church's charitable contributions to society, once government holds it's guns to your head and makes you do it, as in stealing your money and redistributing it a social enginering effort, it becomes evil.

Jesus never held a gun to someone's head.

[golfhobo]

Good point, Terry. But, if a representative gov't, elected by a majority of the people, instigate the policy without holding a gun to your head.... Is that not Constitutional?

But, my point was that "most" Liberal policies are rooted in Christian history and teachings. Or at least, that's the way I see it.

[terrylamar]

Good point, Terry. But, if a representative gov't, elected by a majority of the people, instigate the policy without holding a gun to your head.... Is that not Constitutional?

Absolutly not. If it is not an enumerated power of the Constitution it cannot be Constitutional.

What happens if you disobey the "policy?" Government goons come and lock you up. They have guns. Tell me how any governmental policy is enacted without "holding a gun to your head?"

[GMAN]

Jesus taught that we should be compassionate. He never took from people. Like coming to him it should be voluntary. Under socialism, they can take what you have and give it to whomever they wish. Jesus taught us that we should give to those less fortunate with an open heart. The Bible also teaches us that it is better to teach people how to do for themselves than simply meet all of their needs. I am paraphrasing but it goes something like this. Feed a man and you feed him once. Teach a man to fish and you feed him forever. That is not the exact wording, but you get the jest. That is not the way socialists operate.

I have heard some ministers preach about whether Jesus was a liberal. I suppose you could make a case for either. In reality, I think that he was non political. He welcomed people no matter where they came from.

[Roadhog]

Many people who sling Jesus is a liberal slogan around, (or what would Jesus do?) don't even believe in God, and even less in Jesus as Divine, or are deceived lip service Christians off the straight and narrow path. Look at the motives of this secular progressive philosophy. What is their true intention? My opinion, it is used as a tool to shame Christian conservatives into silence, and somehow ad a sense of righteousness to their social agenda. They do sway many Christians from the true teaching and concepts of God. Deception is a very powerful weapon. Making God into something He is not, is idolatry.

This argument to "prove" liberals are closer to the virtues of Christ? More compassionate and charitable? (your basic God is on our side) Well, redistribution of wealth is not Christian. God demanded personal responsibility and moral accountability, and requiring a work ethic.

Liberals think Jesus would have favored governmental forcible income redistribution of wealth. Absolutely not! He advocated private voluntary charity. The government confiscating the possessions of others to give to the underpriviledged is stealing. The welfare state is an evil concept, and keeps people as slaves. Charity or compassion funded by taxes taken forcibly from an income earner is an evil deception. Another thing to keep in mind, private charities are always more efficient at managing charitible contributions than any government agency has ever proven to be.

Other significant differences between liberal views of Jesus vs. Christian views of Jesus.
1. Liberals believe man is naturally and inherently good, where as Christ taught man is naturally evil and corrupted.
2. Liberals believe man is made more perfect through social reform, and just need the right government to lead them.
Christ taught man is fallen and influenced constantly by Satan, and not perfectible without Divine intervention.
The most murderous governments were atheist governments. USSR, Maoist China, Nazi Germany to name a few.
3. Liberals believe man is the center of the universe. Christ taught God is the center of the universe and that all mankind is accountable to Him. Our US Constitution is based upon the Laws of God, and our Republic is founded on those principles. The very fabric of our Nation is woven with Christian virtues and the further we go away from that, the further downhill our Country has fallen.

We are at war with radical Islam, but the greatest threat to our Country is from within by the liberal decay. We see so often how liberals must destroy Christianity in order to fundamentally transform America.

The Pharisees were the first liberals to oppose Christ, and want to destroy Him. We have many examples of how liberals attack, undermine, and seek to destroy Christianity, and many living examples today. Liberals are the ones who constantly cry for political and social change, whereas conservatives tend to oppose such changes to existing rules and norms. Christ was not a liberal. The common misconception about Jesus is that He represented some kind of massive change in social norms. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17) This points out another common misconception of non-believers. When Christ died on the cross, the old ways of temple priests and animal sacrifices, valid at one time, were now no longer necessary. A non-believer will never understand the teaching of God, because only God with His Spirit can open their eyes. Otherwise, you will read the Bible just like another book, and take from it as you will, not as God Wills.

Pharisees and teachers of the law during Jesus' time were the liberals. They were the ones who had brought about change in God's people by perverting Mosaic Law while still remaining in a position of leadership as Jewish religious authorities. The Pharisees had become corrupt and powerful over the years, adding oral traditions to the Law, which God had not authorized, and honoring the letter of the Law while ignoring its spirit. (corrupted and deceived lawyers) Jesus referred to them as "snakes and sons of snakes," then further called them on their hypocrisy by stating that they "...clean the outside of the cup and dish, but on the inside, are full of greed and self-indulgence." (Matthew 23:25-28, Matthew 21:12-13.)

When you look at the liberal agenda, you see nothing that is consistant with God's teaching. Abortion, forcible income redistribution, Darwinism, special privileges in employment and education based on race and gender, rather than character and merit, Utilitarianism, Socialism, rejection of traditional marriage, moral relativism, etc.

Today, Liberal Congress is trying to destroy the US Constitution inwhich they were elected to uphold! They are trying to convince a huge lie, healthcare is a right. Liberalism is the greatest threat to America. Our recession today in comparrison, is already equal to the Great Depression. The real truth will soon be shown, and we have not seen the bottom yet.

The huge Stimulus Bills were not to help the economy, but rather to fill the hole the government needed, in order to increase the size of government! We have become a consumer Nation. With the recession so deep, they have no taxes to build their liberal agenda. You will see an uptick in the economy, timed for elections, and it is all temporary, and does nothing to help jobs. This administration is doing everything possible to destroy capitalism and the USD, and they will succeed. With passing healthcare, this government will run 50% of our economy. They intend to run all business once they get their framework into place.

America is seeing the liberals for who and what they really are. Is it too late though? Yeah, I think so. Progressives have been plotting and planning this for many years. Even George Bush whom liberals hate was a liberal. Half of the republican party is liberal. Our government under either party has swung so far left of center, only radical left is now the left. Get use to socialism. It's going to get much worse in my opinion. I believe in 3 more years, America will look more like a communist country, and where this all goes on a Global scale from there, gets into some real UGGA BUGGA!

[Scoe]

While I would never pretend to speak for Jesus, I'm pretty sure he is against abortion. I doubt very seriously if he could vote democrat with abortion as a part of the platform.

I heard a bunch of recordings of liberals, Hilary and others, doing some history revisionism. They were all espousing this theory on how Mary and Joseph were "homeless" and thus Jesus was the son of a "homeless" couple.

C'mon people!! Please, they were in Bethlehem to (depending on the version of the bible) either pay the tax man or be counted for the census. NOT HOMELESS!! Just travelers who didn't have internet access back then and were unable to connect to Priceline to bid on the "inn' ahead of time. Thus, no room at the inn.

Now about that manger, easily could have been reserved through Travelocity.

[GMAN]

Many people who sling Jesus is a liberal slogan around, (or what would Jesus do?) don't even believe in God, and even less in Jesus as Divine, or are deceived lip service Christians off the straight and narrow path. Look at the motives of this secular progressive philosophy. What is their true intention? My opinion, it is used as a tool to shame Christian conservatives into silence, and somehow ad a sense of righteousness to their social agenda. They do sway many Christians from the true teaching and concepts of God. Deception is a very powerful weapon. Making God into something He is not, is idolatry.

This argument to "prove" liberals are closer to the virtues of Christ? More compassionate and charitable? (your basic God is on our side) Well, redistribution of wealth is not Christian. God demanded personal responsibility and moral accountability, and requiring a work ethic.

Liberals think Jesus would have favored governmental forcible income redistribution of wealth. Absolutely not! He advocated private voluntary charity. The government confiscating the possessions of others to give to the underpriviledged is stealing. The welfare state is an evil concept, and keeps people as slaves. Charity or compassion funded by taxes taken forcibly from an income earner is an evil deception. Another thing to keep in mind, private charities are always more efficient at managing charitible contributions than any government agency has ever proven to be.

Other significant differences between liberal views of Jesus vs. Christian views of Jesus.
1. Liberals believe man is naturally and inherently good, where as Christ taught man is naturally evil and corrupted.
2. Liberals believe man is made more perfect through social reform, and just need the right government to lead them.
Christ taught man is fallen and influenced constantly by Satan, and not perfectible without Divine intervention.
The most murderous governments were atheist governments. USSR, Maoist China, Nazi Germany to name a few.
3. Liberals believe man is the center of the universe. Christ taught God is the center of the universe and that all mankind is accountable to Him. Our US Constitution is based upon the Laws of God, and our Republic is founded on those principles. The very fabric of our Nation is woven with Christian virtues and the further we go away from that, the further downhill our Country has fallen.

We are at war with radical Islam, but the greatest threat to our Country is from within by the liberal decay. We see so often how liberals must destroy Christianity in order to fundamentally transform America.

The Pharisees were the first liberals to oppose Christ, and want to destroy Him. We have many examples of how liberals attack, undermine, and seek to destroy Christianity, and many living examples today. Liberals are the ones who constantly cry for political and social change, whereas conservatives tend to oppose such changes to existing rules and norms. Christ was not a liberal. The common misconception about Jesus is that He represented some kind of massive change in social norms. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17) This points out another common misconception of non-believers. When Christ died on the cross, the old ways of temple priests and animal sacrifices, valid at one time, were now no longer necessary. A non-believer will never understand the teaching of God, because only God with His Spirit can open their eyes. Otherwise, you will read the Bible just like another book, and take from it as you will, not as God Wills.were the liberals. They were the ones who had brought about change in God's people by perverting Mosaic Law while still remaining in a position of leadership as Jewish religious authorities. The Pharisees

Pharisees and teachers of the law during Jesus' time had become corrupt and powerful over the years, adding oral traditions to the Law, which God had not authorized, and honoring the letter of the Law while ignoring its spirit. (corrupted and deceived lawyers) Jesus referred to them as "snakes and sons of snakes," then further called them on their hypocrisy by stating that they "...clean the outside of the cup and dish, but on the inside, are full of greed and self-indulgence." (Matthew 23:25-28, Matthew 21:12-13.)

When you look at the liberal agenda, you see nothing that is consistant with God's teaching. Abortion, forcible income redistribution, Darwinism, special privileges in employment and education based on race and gender, rather than character and merit, Utilitarianism, Socialism, rejection of traditional marriage, moral relativism, etc.

Today, Liberal Congress is trying to destroy the US Constitution inwhich they were elected to uphold! They are trying to convince a huge lie, healthcare is a right. Liberalism is the greatest threat to America. Our recession today in comparrison, is already equal to the Great Depression. The real truth will soon be shown, and we have not seen the bottom yet.

The huge Stimulus Bills were not to help the economy, but rather to fill the hole the government needed, in order to increase the size of government! We have become a consumer Nation. With the recession so deep, they have no taxes to build their liberal agenda. You will see an uptick in the economy, timed for elections, and it is all temporary, and does nothing to help jobs. This administration is doing everything possible to destroy capitalism and the USD, and they will succeed. With passing healthcare, this government will run 50% of our economy. They intend to run all business once they get their framework into place.

America is seeing the liberals for who and what they really are. Is it too late though? Yeah, I think so. Progressives have been plotting and planning this for many years. Even George Bush whom liberals hate was a liberal. Half of the republican party is liberal. Our government under either party has swung so far left of center, only radical left is now the left. Get use to socialism. It's going to get much worse in my opinion. I believe in 3 more years, America will look more like a communist country, and where this all goes on a Global scale from there, gets into some real UGGA BUGGA!

Excellent post, Roadhog. You make some very strong points. My fear is that you are correct about the demise of America. I think we may have gone too far to be able to turn things around. However, we cannot give up. We can work to turn things around. I heard a minister say a few months ago that he thought that what is happening is God's passing judgment on America. America turned it's back on God so God has turned his back on America.

[Twilight Flyer]

Soddom and Gomorrah ain’t got nothing on us today.

[Roadhog]

Moral relativism seems to be spooking people the most, and rightly so. The liberal progressives have always felt that nothing is inherently good or evil, because moral values can be explained away. They feel truth and reality are perceived differently from diverse points of view, and that no single point of view is the complete truth. (Man is the measure of all things) They have no idea of the world they live in. The saddest part of this, is how many "Christians" accept moral relativism, with the reasoning of man over God's Will. This practice allows a man to justify anything "he" feels morally imperative, and therefore vote his conscious.

At best moral relativism makes society unstable, as the concepts of right and wrong suddenly become a question of shifting popular opinions. The liberal decay reaches a point of saturation, and you find normal acceptance over things like abortion, rejection of traditional marriage, sexual perversions, political correctness, double standards, necessary lies, corruption as a matter of business, and a whole host of other depraved behavior widely used and considered acceptable or necessary.

Moral relativism is one method progressives are using to bring down the US Constitution. The Constitution was based upon the laws of The Almighty God and frankly influenced and Blessed by God. Progressives will place man at the top above all things. The idea that there is no ultimate standard of good or evil, so every judgment about right and wrong is purely a product of a person’s preferences and environment. There is no ultimate standard of morality, according to moral relativism, and no statement or position can be considered absolutely right or wrong, best or worst.

For progressives, in other words, truth must be based upon matters of fact. They do not see themselves as being victims of deception. It helps them believe most fervantly in ideology. How else can anyone explain the insane liberal view on our current policies on terror? For them, morality, sentiments, moral judgment, matters of value are not based upon verifiable facts obtained in the world. Again, they do not perceive they are living in a world that is constantly full of evil influence from a greater power so overwhelming, the deceived have no clue they are deceived. When you discount religious componants, and a higher power, you are placing man above God, and that was the original sin.

Sometimes moral relativism is connected with a normative position about how we ought to think or act towards those with whom we morally disagree, most commonly that we should tolerate them. Does any of this explain how progressives believe it's right to give an enemy combatant US citizen rights? or ram this Health bill and Climate bill down everyones throat? They see themselves as superior, making their very actions in full contridiction of their moral relativistic ideals.

Is there no law higher than our law? A moral relativist would be forced to answer no. Yet oddly, they feel they are right, and it is their duty to inforce their will upon us all. Rather insane isn't it? By their own reasoning, my beliefs should count equally, yet I am to be silenced and completely discounted. The debate is over. The progressives have control of the government, control of the media, and are quickly putting their framework into place using taxpayer money to do it, to ultimately Rule.

I do marvel at how well plannned out this is, but I also feel there is an evil higher power in play. Poetic contridiction to their core belief the spirit world does not exist. What we have going on here, is going on worldwide. It is easy for us to see the things happening to us, but if you step back and look at the rest of the world, ......this is a world gone mad, and it all is unsustainable. All the leaders worldwide are barking mad lunatics, not just our own.

This is a Nation in serious advanced moral decay. History proves to us many times what to expect from here.

[Roadhog]

Hobo,
You have taken my post way too personal.
When I posted my thoughts on this thread, I was not considering you individually in any way. I always address someone by name, whenever I am posting directly to them or about them.
(example; see this post)
Otherwise, I am voicing my opinions at a group or way of thinking I disagree with. The topics are usually hostile enough, without making it personal.

If someone wants to question or challenge some aspect of my way of thinking, I will respond, but not if they've spent their time specifically proving how they can take much of what I've had to say and twist it into their own comprehension of how I think, and further prove how stupid my opinions are, with their own far superior opinions.
=====================

I will entertain these two points of view for now, but I'm not going to have you put me on the defense of most everything I've had to say, when clearly I'm an idiot.
I will most likely just ignore you.

How do you reconcile this with the fact that God created "man" in his image? Did he create US to be "evil and corrupted?"

You've missed the point of why we were created mortal, who Lucifer is, the world we live in, God's plan, man's purpose, etc.

More total B.s.! We have always BEEN a consumer nation!

That's what I get for not specifying the industrial strength we used to have, in comparrison.

[golfhobo]

Sorry, Hoggie. I cleaned up my post some. Didn't mean to get personal. Just slipped in there. I'm trying to change.

[Windwalker]

Originally Posted by Hobo
More total B.s.! We have always BEEN a consumer nation!

While this is true, that we have always been a consumer nation, virtually every nation is. The major difference is that in the past, we did not import as much of what we consume. Basically, we imported that which we were not able to grow or produce here, for what ever reason. Today, we produce less of what we consume, and import far more. It makes for a job bubble that has burst. So, now we're going to have those that have, support those that have not.

"Do onto others as you would have others do onto you." This was not mandated. It was voluntary, not government enforced. GOD is about choices, not government enforced sympathies towards our fellow man.

[golfhobo]

While this is true, that we have always been a consumer nation, virtually every nation is. The major difference is that in the past, we did not import as much of what we consume. Basically, we imported that which we were not able to grow or produce here, for what ever reason. Today, we produce less of what we consume, and import far more. It makes for a job bubble that has burst. So, now we're going to have those that have, support those that have not.

"Do onto others as you would have others do onto you." This was not mandated. It was voluntary, not government enforced. GOD is about choices, not government enforced sympathies towards our fellow man.

Okay, Windy. I get that now. I misunderstood Roadhog's meaning in the context of the paragraph he used it in.

I also "get" the differences many are making about voluntary vs. mandated.

I only started this thread because Glen Beck was using a biblical concept to claim that Democrats are just socialists.

[Twilight Flyer]

Democrats are just socialists.

That's spot-on just like that.

Youse guys are gonna have a rough year, ain't ya?

2010...the year we started trying to take our country back. Unfortunately, I believe this will precipitate a greater divide than this country has ever seen and ultimately lead up to some of the biggees that were prophesied thousands of years ago.

Nation against nation...brother against brother.

"War's in the air, ma! Better head down to the cellar until this thing done blows over!"

Makes me happier every day that I know how it's all going to end.

[Windwalker]

That's spot-on just like that.

Youse guys are gonna have a rough year, ain't ya?

2010...the year we started trying to take our country back. Unfortunately, I believe this will precipitate a greater divide than this country has ever seen and ultimately lead up to some of the biggees that were prophesied thousands of years ago.

Nation against nation...brother against brother.

"War's in the air, ma! Better head down to the cellar until this thing done blows over!"

Makes me happier every day that I know how it's all going to end.

I'm afraid we've already had that. And, Abe Lincoln was the President.

[Twilight Flyer]

I'm afraid we've already had that. And, Abe Lincoln was the President.

Yeah, but that was nothing compared to what the next one will be. There’s a whole lot more of us and we’ve gotten a whole lot better at killin’ each other.

The Civil War was fought over differing ideals, much of it related to slavery. This next one will also be fought over a ideals and the differences between liberals and conservatives today are a whole lot more in number and just as, if not more, inflammatory. The pot has been simmering for a while and the Dems all-out push in the past 12 months to pass every piece of unconstitutional legislation that our former governmental checks and balances held up, has stoked the fired to maximum temperature.

Dems should really look closely at the election in MassofWhoSchnits today. What should have been an absolute walk in the park for the Dems has turned into a massive political battle that the Dems look likely to lose to a no-name Republican. It’s a friggen’ Kennedy seat, for cryin’ out loud! If that far left liberal state is standing up and saying enough is enough, that should be a big wakeup call to any and all of the current president’s supporters. But it won’t and you and I both know that. It will only widen the chasm between the two sides and foster more bitterness as more and more democrats wake up and jump ship. If Brown wins and signals the end of the congressional dictatorship, the sitting administration will find some way to stall it or even prevent it. Just watch it happen. And all the while, the heat will continue to get turned up.

More people today than ever before are talking openly of rebellion and revolution in more than just passing whispers. Gun sales are at record levels. People are more interested in food storage than ever before. Why do you think that is? People know…times are a changin’. We look at the Civil War and it’s in another time for all of us, making it difficult to truly comprehend. It’s ancient history and none of us know what it was like to feel that pain, to participate in fighting our own countrymen; we think that it will never happen again on our soil. Why? What makes us so special? We’ve had a couple centuries of inner peace and the last couple decades of that can be attributed to an apathetic populace, who slept right through the most important opportunities to right the ship and keep it on the correct course. Now, with the storms brewing and the ship listing badly, people are waking up. Apathy is no longer in vogue. The war of words is already bitter, divisive, and hurtful. How long before words are no longer enough and people are locking and loading?

Pessimism? Sure, but only because I do NOT believe we, as a country, have what it takes anymore to put aside our differences and strive to recreate our nation’s bond. I’ve long been vocal about pointing out that we have reached a point where the only chance this country and world has is through divine or alien intervention – pick your savior, so to speak. Left to our own devices, we’re looking at a truly dismal post-apocalyptic future.

We’re 11 chimes into the midnight hour right now. And once again, it makes me glad that I know what I know and therein lies my optimism. The storm will come, the world will change, but the sun always comes up at the dawn.

[Windwalker]

We’ve had a couple centuries of inner peace and the last couple decades of that can be attributed to an apathetic populace, who slept right through the most important opportunities to right the ship and keep it on the correct course.

Well, that one is right on the money. I was a candidate in the last election. All I got was reasons why it would not work.

Too many people are listening to the few that are making promises that are too easy not to keep, and too hard to follow through. Too many leaders are listening to "experts" that are not able to see simple logic. And, to too many of them, the taxpayer is simply a bottomless pit of financial supply. They simply can not see that the more money you take out of the pool, the less there is to go around. The money we have is like the buffalo of old. Once numbered as the stars in the sky, but even the number of stars has a limit. Abuse the supply and it becomes endangered species. That's what the "experts" are unable to see, and it's their advice that sways political decisions.

You wanted change, you should have written my name in...

Think about it. I didn't win. So, I can talk about it. If I had won, you'd all be kicking my butt up around my shoulders.