I'm going to start carrying a big freakin' shovel...

[Rev.Vassago]

Rev.... the theory isn't a theory.....its simple fact. But hey....if it weren't, then why are so many fools changing lanes on top of other people? Roughly 6000 fatalities per year attributed to cell phones in traffic kind of makes the point.

No, it doesn't. You're blaming someone holding their phone up to their ear for something completely unrelated. The real fact of the matter is, people don't think beyond the hood of their car. You assume that these people are perfectly attentive drivers until you put a phone in their hand. The fact is, most of them aren't.

If you want to go even further, we could look at the total amount of vehicle deaths over the past 14 years:

FARS Encyclopedia

You'll notice that there were less traffic fatalities in 2008 than there were in 1994. And that's with more vehicles on the road today than there were back then. Your "cell phones are the cause of all inattentive driving accidents" argument isn't holding up very well, considering cell phones in vehicles were virtually nonexistent back in 1994. In fact, it's quite shocking how even the data is every year. With all the distractions available to the driver today (digital and satellite radios, cell phones, GPS, etc.) combined with the fact that there are a lot more vehicles on the road today (and those vehicles are travelling greater distances), one would think that traffic fatalities would be greater today than they were 14 years ago.

But they aren't.

[Skywalker]

No, it doesn't. You're blaming someone holding their phone up to their ear for something completely unrelated. The real fact of the matter is, people don't think beyond the hood of their car. You assume that these people are perfectly attentive drivers until you put a phone in their hand. The fact is, most of them aren't.

If you want to go even further, we could look at the total amount of vehicle deaths over the past 14 years:

FARS Encyclopedia

You'll notice that there were less traffic fatalities in 2008 than there were in 1994. And that's with more vehicles on the road today than there were back then. Your "cell phones are the cause of all inattentive driving accidents" argument isn't holding up very well, considering cell phones in vehicles were virtually nonexistent back in 1994. In fact, it's quite shocking how even the data is every year. With all the distractions available to the driver today (digital and satellite radios, cell phones, GPS, etc.) combined with the fact that there are a lot more vehicles on the road today (and those vehicles are travelling greater distances), one would think that traffic fatalities would be greater today than they were 14 years ago.

But they aren't.

I am well aware of the statistics....and I am aware of the statistics concerning cell phones and fatalities.

All I know is that recently I have had more than just a couple of drivers who have been holding their phones in their LEFT hands come down ramps, or change lanes on top of me.

Maybe you can see, but apparently THEY couldn't. I attribute their stupid actions to the fact that they could not see their mirrors...or maybe they didn't care.... Like its often been said: You can't fix STUPID!! If someone wants to end their life in traffic....I would really appreciate it if they would leave me out of their bid for suicide by vehicle.

Pay a little more attention to people on cell phones, and that includes "Professional Drivers" and you will see exactly what I am referring to. Hopefully you won't one day discover someone under your trailer after you move left....while holding your cell phone up with your left hand....blocking your view of your mirrors. Have a lovely day....

[Skywalker]

No, it doesn't. You're blaming someone holding their phone up to their ear for something completely unrelated. The real fact of the matter is, people don't think beyond the hood of their car. You assume that these people are perfectly attentive drivers until you put a phone in their hand. The fact is, most of them aren't.

I am well aware of the fact that the average motorist is much like a "lemming" rushing toward the cliff....and most people have the attention span of "cockroach"..... But I am assuming nothing. Check out the links, and you will see what I am directly referring to:

Highway deaths cell phones - Google Search

[Rev.Vassago]

I am well aware of the fact that the average motorist is much like a "lemming" rushing toward the cliff....and most people have the attention span of "cockroach"..... But I am assuming nothing. Check out the links, and you will see what I am directly referring to:

Linking me to a Google search shows nothing. I'm well aware that cell phones contribute to distracted driving. I'm not arguing that one bit. What I am arguing is the notion that someone with a cell phone to their ear is incapable of seeing their mirror if they choose to look at it, and that these people would otherwise use their mirrors if they were not on their cell phone.

You've provided nothing to back up either of these claims, and I've disproven the first one pretty thoroughly with a real-world test, and have discredited the second one by showing that accident rates have remained fairly steady from before cell phones were commonly used until now, and have even lowered overall when the increase in vehicles is taken into consideration.

I'll now take it even one step further by providing photographic evidence that it is possible to see your mirror while having a cell phone to your left ear. The following picture was taking while resting my arm on my door ledge with my left hand to my ear. The camera is held directly in front of my eyes:



This next picture was taken after turning my head 10 degrees to the left; again, my arm has not moved, my hand is still to my left ear, and the camera is still directly in front of my eyes:




Please tell me again how my view of my mirror is blocked by having a cellular phone to my left ear.

[Mr. Ford95]

You'll notice that there were less traffic fatalities in 2008 than there were in 1994. And that's with more vehicles on the road today than there were back then. Your "cell phones are the cause of all inattentive driving accidents" argument isn't holding up very well, considering cell phones in vehicles were virtually nonexistent back in 1994. In fact, it's quite shocking how even the data is every year. With all the distractions available to the driver today (digital and satellite radios, cell phones, GPS, etc.) combined with the fact that there are a lot more vehicles on the road today (and those vehicles are travelling greater distances), one would think that traffic fatalities would be greater today than they were 14 years ago.

Actually, vehicles are built much safer today than they were in 94, that has a lot to do with fatalities going down. Manufacturers have figured out how to design vehicles so they crush a certain way to keep the occupants safe, they've figured out a sudden stop is bad on the body. You want to slow the crash down even if it's in thousands of a second it makes a big difference. We also have airbags, side airbags, curtain airbags and styrofoam built into vehicles that absorb crash impact's and divert the energy from occupants.

[Rev.Vassago]

Actually, vehicles are built much safer today than they were in 94, that has a lot to do with fatalities going down. Manufacturers have figured out how to design vehicles so they crush a certain way to keep the occupants safe, they've figured out a sudden stop is bad on the body. You want to slow the crash down even if it's in thousands of a second it makes a big difference. We also have airbags, side airbags, curtain airbags and styrofoam built into vehicles that absorb crash impact's and divert the energy from occupants.

Of course. There are lots of factors that affect crashes, and cell phones are one small part of them. But that doesn't make his "left mirror blocked" statement any less false.

[jagerbomber3.0]

I cant even believe it myself but there is a first time for everything and this is the first time i have agreed with every single post The Rev has made in a thread. And the pics you posted up should be end of story. Right from the very beginning of this thread i thought the same thing as you are saying. The issue of cell phones being unsafe while driving is a different subject but the whole not being able to see your mirror is just a flawed idea as far as I am concerned.

[Rev.Vassago]

And for the record, my view of the left mirror was completely blocked by my cell phone camera while taking those pics (as was my view of everything else, for that matter). I will now go start a thread railing against drivers who put their cell phone cameras in front of their eyes while driving down the road.

[Hawkjr]

as me being a young pup driving this truck for the past year and change, i usually talk on the phone and drive if i'm going down a straight shot interstate I.E. 95 from North Carolina Line to Richmond or 64 From The Newport News Area back towards Richmond.. i've never had an problem seeing out any of my mirrors going down the road and i've never had an instance where i all most came over on an car or truck...

There have been times where i'm going down the road slower while talking on the phone but not any way or form has it blocked my vision of my mirrors or looking straight ahead, yes i do realize i'm little distracted going down the highway but not to the point where im putting others in immediate danger...

I talk on the phone in heavy traffic, curvy roads, hills, or going somewhere i've never been before... I will say this much i've had a couple of incidents where a driver have pulled into a truck stop to wide or recklessly while talking on the phone!! but there's *******s like that everywhere..

[jonp]

No, it doesn't. You're blaming someone holding their phone up to their ear for something completely unrelated. The real fact of the matter is, people don't think beyond the hood of their car. You assume that these people are perfectly attentive drivers until you put a phone in their hand. The fact is, most of them aren't.

If you want to go even further, we could look at the total amount of vehicle deaths over the past 14 years:

FARS Encyclopedia

You'll notice that there were less traffic fatalities in 2008 than there were in 1994. And that's with more vehicles on the road today than there were back then. Your "cell phones are the cause of all inattentive driving accidents" argument isn't holding up very well, considering cell phones in vehicles were virtually nonexistent back in 1994. In fact, it's quite shocking how even the data is every year. With all the distractions available to the driver today (digital and satellite radios, cell phones, GPS, etc.) combined with the fact that there are a lot more vehicles on the road today (and those vehicles are travelling greater distances), one would think that traffic fatalities would be greater today than they were 14 years ago.

But they aren't.

That has more to do with the vehicles on the road being safer in crashes with older vehicles being retired and the newer ones having better safety features. Also with more states instituting mandatory seatbelt laws and cracking down on drunk drivers.

[wanderingson]

I understand Skywalkers frustration, but that is not really a professional attitude, if you ask me. So you wanna whack someone with a shovel who is driving carelessly? Ok, whatever you say driver.

As professional drivers, we have to deal with this sort of thing everyday. I was taught to be "better" than the general motoring public, by not letting the road rage factor get to me. This is the mark of a true pro driver, in my opinion. (among other things)

I have to agree that driving with the cell in the left hand/ear doesn't hinder a driver from seeing their mirrors AT ALL.

Just sayin

[GMAN]

I think that it isn't as safe due to not concentrating on what you are doing rather than what you see. Some people become so involved in their cell phone conversation that they don't concentrate on driving. I believe that is the main issue, not visibility.

[Roadaholic]

Once again, I disagree. I can hold my phone in my hand and turn my head both left and right without moving my arms at all. In fact, I just tested this theory, and you can too. Put your elbow on the arm rest thingy that is by your driver's side door, and lean your left ear on your hand. Now turn your head without moving your elbow from that stationary position. Can you see your mirror? I know I can, as it barely takes any head movement whatsoever to see my mirror (turning my head 10 degrees, at most).

Hey Rev., I heard oatmeal is good... ...are you kidding!! The only thing that makes absolute sense in this thread, is the first entry! I can relate. No one driving anything with a bunch of wheels, should be distracting themselves into oblivion. How can I relate? A driver and I rounding the bend downtown Birmingham. He passes me like I'm sitting at a standstill, drives too close to my tractor and knocked the mirror completely forward. Another incident; Dumb and Dumber in one of those nice purple trucks on I-80 halfway thru Pennsylvania. Both dumb*****e$ had a phone hanging on their ear. He passed me, and before the half the trailer passes me, he turns right! He never saw me. I had to stop and mop up.

Please! Help educate driver's on this board, Mr. Administrator. You've got newbies watching and reading what their peers do, and 'things' just keep getting worse. You of all people can make a difference.

[Rev.Vassago]

Hey Rev., I heard oatmeal is good... ...are you kidding!! The only thing that makes absolute sense in this thread, is the first entry! I can relate. No one driving anything with a bunch of wheels, should be distracting themselves into oblivion. How can I relate? A driver and I rounding the bend downtown Birmingham. He passes me like I'm sitting at a standstill, drives too close to my tractor and knocked the mirror completely forward. Another incident; Dumb and Dumber in one of those nice purple trucks on I-80 halfway thru Pennsylvania. Both dumb*****e$ had a phone hanging on their ear. He passed me, and before the half the trailer passes me, he turns right! He never saw me. I had to stop and mop up.

Please! Help educate driver's on this board, Mr. Administrator. You've got newbies watching and reading what their peers do, and 'things' just keep getting worse. You of all people can make a difference.

*Sigh*

Apparently reading the entire thread was too much work for you. As I've said several times already, I am not disputing the effects of cell phone usage and accidents/distracted driving. I am only disputing the notion that one is incapable of seeing their left mirror while holding a cell phone. There is a huge difference between not bothering to look at a mirror (which happens whether there is a cell phone in peoples' hands or not) and not being able to see the mirror.

The OP made an absurd statement about how it is physically impossible to see the mirror, and that somehow your arm prevents you from doing so. It was a dumb statement with no basis in reality, and only serves to take away from the main point about distracted driving, which is a perfectly valid concern. His insistence upon arguing it even further only weakens his argument even more.

[golfhobo]

I find a complete lack of speed control to be more of an issue with the cell phone holders.

1) Dial or answer --> slow down

2) Realize you're going slowly and people are passing you --> floor it

3) Realize you're speeding --> slow down

4) Get involved in your conversation --> slow down more

Repeat steps 2 through 4 until the call has ended and then swerve out of your lane while trying to put the phone back wherever you keep it.

Possibly the first time I have ever agreed ENTIRELY with everything Vito had to say in one post!

[golfhobo]

That has more to do with the vehicles on the road being safer in crashes with older vehicles being retired and the newer ones having better safety features. Also with more states instituting mandatory seatbelt laws and cracking down on drunk drivers.

I was going to make this same point.... and one more:

The stats quoted by the Rev are for 2008. Wasn't that the year that fuel/gas prices went through the roof.... and Americans drove BILLIONS of miles less than in previous years? (Truck miles were down, too!)

Don't want to get into a "stat" war.... but, everything I've heard says that crashes and fatalities are UP due to cellphone use, whether handheld or not. TEXTING is worse that talking, handheld worse than "hands-free."

As for holding the phone in the left hand..... I agree with Skywalker that it tends to inhibit attention to the left mirror. It may only be psychological/"motor responsive" rather than actual impediment.... but, the Rev's pictures are not "exculpatory." For ONE thing.... his angle dispersion is more like 45%, not 10%.

So..... those of you who think it is okay to hold the phone in your RIGHT hand.... you NEVER have to shift gears?

This is a SERIOUS problem, folks! And TEXTING is even a BIGGER problem! The younger the "class" of drivers out there (both PROFESSIONAL/CDL... AND.... 4wheeler,) the worse this problem will become. [that is ONLY based on the cultural statistical occurrence of "immediate interaction" in all forms by the tekkie-age.]

You know? It's not even ABOUT the mirrors! It's about paying attention to traffic on ALL sides of you, at ALL times! I can tell you that almost everytime I have to pass someone who SHOULD be maintaining a speed and a position OUT OF MY WAY.... that I will see that driver holding a cellphone to HIS LEFT EAR as I finally go by his sorry AZZ!

Once again, the REV has used his considerable argumentative talents to "obscure" the message that might have been learned by a newer driver reading this board, in favor of "scoring points" with his faithful followers. BARELY defensible by feigning concern for the problem overall, he manages to split hairs with the FACTS presented by a concerned poster, while dismissing the existence of any "spirit" to his concerns.

[Rev.Vassago]

I was going to make this same point.... and one more:

The stats quoted by the Rev are for 2008.

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit today. I provided a link that had statistics for every year from 1994 through 2008. If you'd have bothered to look at them, you would have seen that vehicle deaths have remained relatively steady, and have even dropped slightly. More dramatic is the fact that every year, the number of miles traveled has increased, and yet the vehicle deaths have remained very constant. Statistically speaking, our highways become safer every single year.

Don't want to get into a "stat" war.... but, everything I've heard says that crashes and fatalities are UP due to cellphone use, whether handheld or not. TEXTING is worse that talking, handheld worse than "hands-free."

So prove it. I've shown that deaths have remained constant.

As for holding the phone in the left hand..... I agree with Skywalker that it tends to inhibit attention to the left mirror. It may only be psychological/"motor responsive" rather than actual impediment.... but, the Rev's pictures are not "exculpatory." For ONE thing.... his angle dispersion is more like 45%, not 10%.

Whatever. Sorry I left my drafting compass at home.

You know? It's not even ABOUT the mirrors!

No ****, Sherlock. But you'll notice that the OP made it about the mirrors, and threw asinine reasoning behind it. My elbow is going to hit the window and prevent me from turning my head? Give me a break. That's just ******ed.

Once again, the REV has used his considerable argumentative talents to "obscure" the message that might have been learned by a newer driver reading this board, in favor of "scoring points" with his faithful followers. BARELY defensible by feigning concern for the problem overall, he manages to split hairs with the FACTS presented by a concerned poster, while dismissing the existence of any "spirit" to his concerns.

Blah blah blah.

The entire original post was devoted to the fact that he claimed people were incapable of seeing their mirrors while on the phone, and the results of that action. The argument was flawed from the beginning. I requested clarification, and he dug the hole deeper.

Maybe next time you'll bother to actually read the thread before you whine about me.

[Rev.Vassago]

Also, if you would have bothered to read the statistics I provided, you would see that total miles traveled last year was barely down from the year before.

[golfhobo]

Also, if you would have bothered to read the statistics I provided, you would see that total miles traveled last year was barely down from the year before.

Barely down? I guess I'll have to check your "stats," cuz all I've heard since last summer.... on ALL major news networks.... has been how the price of fuel came DOWN "partly if not mostly" due to the BILLIONS of miles that Americans decided NOT TO DRIVE because fuel was too expensive!

[Rev.Vassago]

Barely down? I guess I'll have to check your "stats," cuz all I've heard since last summer.... on ALL major news networks.... has been how the price of fuel came DOWN "partly if not mostly" due to the BILLIONS of miles that Americans decided NOT TO DRIVE because fuel was too expensive!

Thanks for admitting that you never bothered to even look prior to commenting on them. Guess it shows that you were more interested whining about me than actually providing something of value to the thread.