Stimulus Tax Bill Passes

[repete]

And all you can do is spout hate and fear, give us one verifiable fact just once in your argument.

OMG!! Just OPEN your eye's and your mind. if you can't or won't see it .....

[dobry4u]

What is wrong with spending money we don't have? That is the American Way of life...

[marylandkw]

OMG!! Just OPEN your eye's and your mind. if you can't or won't see it .....

O I forgot the other defense of the conservative, claim liberals are stupid if they don't agree with you. Give me a source, just one source or just continue to assume I am an idiot just for having a difference of opinion with you.

[golfhobo]

He hasn't failed cause "he did what others couldn't" he did what they shouldn't have done! Do you really believe this will work? Japan spent 3 trillion ( i believe and no I'm not looking it up) in the 1990s to cure there ressicion and it was a complete failure as this may be. I hope it works but when you start looking at what there spending on it's a rippoff of the taxpayer and WE have no one to blame but ourselves cause WE relect the same greedy stuck up know it all bast*rds again and again.

OK GH flame away!

Flame away?? You must have the mild-mannered Golfhobo confused with someone ELSE!

Let's have a civilized discussion instead. I'll go first.

I DID look it up for you, and I ask that you read ALL 3 pages of the article I'm going to link. I know you have a preconception (which I don't) about the plan, but please keep an open mind and read BOTH the positive and negative analyses of Japan's efforts.

One thing that struck me, is how American economists see the results differently than those who are taxpayers in Japan.

I also want you to consider that Japan is a very small country, and can only "use" so many roads and bridges.... compared to the U.S. where our infrastructure is crumbling and NEEDS to be "replaced" (not augmented.)

Furthermore, I'd like you to single out (for yourself) all the negatives about their plan/actions and see if you don't remember hearing Obama address each and every ONE of them in recent speeches. It seems to me that he and his "team" have carefully digested this report, or the info it was based on, and "learned" from Japan's mistakes.

Lastly, be sure to notice the actual figures given for the amount of growth each aspect of their plan yielded. I'm sure they would have liked them to be higher, but I don't remember reading any NEGATIVE numbers.

I contend that, according to OUR economists, the plan was NOT an "utter failure," but could have been worked better. Also, consider that the percentage of GDP is higher for their smaller economy that it will be for ours.

I don't KNOW if Obama's plan will work. Economics is not my strong suit. But, I remind you once again that tax reductions for the wealthy has NOT worked in the last 8 years. Neither has deficit Military spending. Our current situation is PROOF.

The definition of insanity is continuing the SAME failed policies and expecting different results. The only conclusion I can draw is that Republicans are insane.

Also... please remember that Obama didn't KNOW he would be inheriting such a dire situation in our economy when he first decided to run for President. I'm sure SOME of these spending programs were part of his plan to change America, but I'm SURE he had no intention of having to spend such HUGE amounts of money so rapidly. I can't help but believe that if this were just the 2 year mark of Dubya's last term, HE might have had to take such drastic measures as well. I believe his actions with TARP prove that.

So maybe, we should stop putting a roadblock in front of Obama, and get behind him and push! This cart was going to roll down this hill regardless of who steered it. And we are all going along for the ride.

Here's the link... and I hope EVERYONE will take the time to read it.

In Japan, a lonesome bridge offers U.S. a lesson - International Herald Tribune

Your turn.

[Double L]

OMG!! Just OPEN your eye's and your mind. if you can't or won't see it .....

That is the problem with the liberals. They hate facts and the truth! Like someone said they moaned and complained when Bush spent over $1 trillion on 8 years. The dems spent that and then some in a month! The dems/liberals are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites and cry when things don't go their way!

[golfhobo]

Double L cried:

That is the problem with the liberals.

I thought their problem was that they loved to tax and spend! (and that they were Socialists.)

They hate facts and the truth!

PROVE IT or STFU.

Like someone said they moaned and complained when Bush spent over $1 trillion on 8 years.

Neither a FACT, nor a TRUTH. So, I LOVE it!

The dems spent that and then some in a month!

Actually, the figure is LESS than $1 trillion, and Bush would have had to do the same or watch the U.S. go down in flames!

The dems/liberals are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites

Give me ONE example of our "hypocrisy" if you can think one up or have someone email it to you.

and cry when things don't go their way!

Seems to ME that the only "crying" going on around here (and in the news) is from the Republicans who lost the election BIG TIME!

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, Double L. But, making ad hominen attacks against the ruling majority in the nation SHOULD be backed up by SOME facts or historical references. [Well, I guess that would mean they weren't ad hominen then!] I suspect you are incapable of either.

I'm really glad that you stayed in school long enough to actually GET a diploma instead of the GED that is so popular with your generation, but as a taxpayer... I don't feel that I got my money's worth!

You rail against Bush's pet project "no child left behind," yet in every post you prove you are a product of it. If the "test" is to choose a party platform and ideals, your teachers have met the minimum requirements to "teach you to it."

I take no pleasure in busting your b@lls, Double L.... but, I have only so much patience for insults from the uninformed.

You were much more "attractive" when you were asking questions instead of spewing lies. And if I didn't CARE so much about you, I wouldn't come down on you like this.

I should KNOW better, but I have no children that survived the divorce!

[marylandkw]

That is the problem with the liberals. They hate facts and the truth! Like someone said they moaned and complained when Bush spent over $1 trillion on 8 years. The dems spent that and then some in a month! The dems/liberals are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites and cry when things don't go their way!

Double L, Just try, just once, to argue your point. You are doing no less than school yard name calling. Provide ONE SINGLE FACT! I implore you, just try to use facts once! All you seem able to do is belittle and demean, Rush Limbaugh and Hanity and all the blow hard conservatives do it, that does not make it right.

Surround yourself with the carnies and rubes who buy into your argument, the fact is YOUR party had 8 years and look what they did. The republicans have done their damage and now it is the Democrats turn. Sit back and enjoy the ride, you can't do anything about it for 2 years, and I would wager nothing will change in 2 years anyhow!

But I suppose since I disagree with you I am an idiot? I am not seeing the light? I refuse to open my eyes and see? SHOW ME WHAT I NEED TO SEE!

[Orangetxguy]

Double L, Just try, just once, to argue your point. You are doing no less than school yard name calling. Provide ONE SINGLE FACT! I implore you, just try to use facts once! All you seem able to do is belittle and demean, Rush Limbaugh and Hanity and all the blow hard conservatives do it, that does not make it right.

Surround yourself with the carnies and rubes who buy into your argument, the fact is YOUR party had 8 years and look what they did. The republicans have done their damage and now it is the Democrats turn. Sit back and enjoy the ride, you can't do anything about it for 2 years, and I would wager nothing will change in 2 years anyhow!

But I suppose since I disagree with you I am an idiot? I am not seeing the light? I refuse to open my eyes and see? SHOW ME WHAT I NEED TO SEE!

Rush Limbaugh; Confessed druggie. Why should any person with decent reasoning skills listen to his drivel? Better yet, Why WOULD any person with reasonable intellect listen to his drivel? Are there everyday people out there, that believe this man would in any way, shape or form, give them a moment of attention? Give them a helping hand if they needed it? Or....are his words of wisdom, that spew forth from his drug hazed mind, such, that they benefit from those words??

Shaun Hanity; Exactly what has he done, to make him the economic and political "Guru" that FOX News has turned him into? Is it because he says the words people want to hear?

Anyone whom believe's that a celebrity on the television would care one moment's worth of life for them, deserves what they get from them...NOTHING.

Rush Limbagh and Shaun Hanity, like so many others that we see on TV, have nothing but their mouths to contribute. They have never and will never, contribute(d) a moments worth of value to society. Their money will stay in their pocket. If they can get away without paying taxes...they will...every day. The words they spew forth are just that...words...with no value.

The two of them should have to pay the American Public for their voices polluting the atmosphere.

[golfhobo]

MDKW:

It's actually more like 10 years that "they" had their chance. IIRC, during the last 2 years of Clinton's last term, Newt Gingrich showed up with a brilliant idea for "change." (and brought with him a special prosecutor to impeach the president for personal conduct.) It was called the Contract with America. It was supposed to right all wrongs and clean up politics "as usual."

Although, Clinton had provided fiscal responsibility and left a surplus, many Conservatives were not happy with the "social" programs of the government. They longed for (and rightly so,) the "smaller government" of the Reagan years.

Although Gore won the popular vote in 2000, with the help of a Conservative Congress, conservative Supreme Court, and a newly created conservative MEDIA source, Bush took over the helm of the country.... and immediately made plans to wage war against a sovereign country who had never attacked us. To assuage his guilt for deficit spending on the war, he spent billions on social programs designed to distract us.

This "social spending".... NOT the WAR expenditures, angered his conservative base and contributed to his lowest EVER approval ratings. He lined the pockets of the rich with little or NO return in REAL job creation, and failed to realize that even most REPUBLICANS are "middle class." I beleive the term that became popular was "service industry jobs." Right! The legitimate enslavement and emasculation of the working class!

Bush mistakenly relied upon the "steroid" induced rage of America about being attacked, and forgot the simple truth that Clinton had discovered. "It's the ECONOMY stupid!" He even dismissed the concerns of his own conservative base in his "religious quest" to fight ALL the evils in the World. And as icing on the cake, he let Wall Street run amok and steal us blind! He learned quickly, but too late, that is IS the economy stupid! And you don't FRUCK with people's retirement incomes!

When it comes down to it, Americans care mostly about themselves and their retirements! Wars are fine when required, but experience tells us that we have the POWER to engage and finish them quickly! (Of course, when one dismisses most of one's allies offhandedly, and goes it alone, one finds himself with a knife in a gunfight!) Even the bloodthirsty conservatives grew tired of his incompetent management of the war, as they did with Vietnam. (The so-called "surge" was nothing more than a force enhancement to the level that SHOULD have been deployed to begin with. Thousands died needlessly before they figured out their massive military blunder!)

Luckily, Bush's terms had run out or he would have lost another election SO resoundedly that it would have doomed his party for LIFE! They only "survived" the Obama landslide by running a war hero and a gun-totin' chick to "re-energize" their base. But, too little too late!

And now, within only the first month of the new administration, they have the b@lls to stand up and say that THEY represent "the people," and that we want what THEY have to sell!

Yeah.... about 22% of "us" do!

You gotta LOVE this "term limited and representative" form of government we have! Every 4-8 years we take another step forward and/or two steps BACK! Reminds me of the agitator in my washer!

I really wish Obama had never uttered those words, "well, WE won so we're gonna try it OUR way!" (paraphrased) But, it IS true! In ONE slip of the tongue, he erased all belief in the promises he made, AND is attempting, to be bipartisan. The "Cons" seized on that like it was their last handhold before they slipped over the cliff! Desperate measures from desperate men!

I sincerely hope he has a "fair" chance to prove his politics. And I hope he has some GOOD ideas. Like all Americans, I want to see results. I am sickened though, by watching the sausage being made!

Hobo

[Jimbpard]

We're heading toward a socialism state of Government but the liberals don't see it cause they think Obama is the messiah and the savior of the world! NOT Also when we try to give liberals facts they ignore it cause they hate the truth and hate facts!

I guess you've seen the light since you've been around last right?

Ladies & Gentleman, your President is infact, giving you change you can believe in...Ohhhh yeeeaah...

[golfhobo]

Rush Limbaugh; Confessed druggie. Why should any person with decent reasoning skills listen to his drivel? Better yet, Why WOULD any person with reasonable intellect listen to his drivel? Are there everyday people out there, that believe this man would in any way, shape or form, give them a moment of attention? Give them a helping hand if they needed it? Or....are his words of wisdom, that spew forth from his drug hazed mind, such, that they benefit from those words?? Unfortunately, MILLIONS of them!

Shaun Hannity; Exactly what has he done, to make him the economic and political "Guru" that FOX News has turned him into? Is it because he says the words people want to hear? Yep! Conservatives with the attention span of mice!

Anyone who believes that a celebrity on the television would care one moment's worth of life for them, deserves what they get from them...NOTHING.

Rush Limbagh and Shaun Hanity, like so many others that we see on TV, have nothing but their mouths to contribute. They have never and will never, contribute a moment's worth of value to society. Their money will stay in their pocket. If they can get away without paying taxes...they will...every day. The words they spew forth are just that...words...with no value.

The two of them should have to pay the American Public for their voices polluting the atmosphere.

I could NOT have said it better! Limbaugh is a nuisance, but Hannity is IMHO an "enemy of the state!"

"The Orange Bear!"

[Windwalker]

What's really unfortunate is the fact that this bill won't be much more effective than that of the previous administration, and for the same reasons. "Too little, too late". No, I'm not saying it needs to give us more money to spend, but it does need to discourage "out-sourcing", and encourage domestic production of the goods we use. Simply providing us with more spending money is not going to do that.

[repete]

O I forgot the other defense of the conservative, claim liberals are stupid if they don't agree with you. Give me a source, just one source or just continue to assume I am an idiot just for having a difference of opinion with you.

Did I say your stupid? Did I insult you in some way? I'm pretty sure that I didn't and I don't remember calling you an idiot either! Just read what I did say and do your own research, the only thing I'm assuming is that your smart enough to do so LOL
I'm not here to insult anyone, I believe in our rights and that includes freedom of speech even if I don't agree

[repete]

GH i will read that link you posted and get back on that but not now ( it's 0330 and been a long day). One thing that gets me about this bill is how fast they had to push it thru and no one had time to read it! Yeah that's "change we can believe in " I believe we just got screwed!
My wife is a nurse and alot of the nurseing aides are all ready talking about what there going to do with there windfall from this bill, some are even saying they want to quit and collect there check! We already take to much reponsiblty away from the people and the result is people wanting/demanding the gov. do this and provide that!
Oh well i'm rambling ... Good night

[Windwalker]

OH, yeah...

A "RAPID TRANSIT RAIL LINE" between Los Angeles and Las Vegas... That's going to provide jobs around our country, won't it.

Or, the grants to veterans in the Phillipines. No, they do not deserve to be forgotten like the rest of us, but how is that going to stimulate the American economy?

And, what does the average American get out of it??? About $13/day... Or was that $0.13/hour??? Woopy-ding... Yahoo... I feel so stimulated, I think I'll go find a bathroom to sit in. Where are the jobs going to come from?

[golfhobo]

OH, yeah...

A "RAPID TRANSIT RAIL LINE" between Los Angeles and Las Vegas... That's going to provide jobs around our country, won't it.

Windy, NO bill could possibly create ONE job or type of job that will apply and affect everyone in the country. It has to be made up of projects HOPEFULLY spread around the country.

Now, I understand that MANY see this rail line as a "pet project" (some call it pork) for Sen. Reid's homestate, but let's look a little deeper....

To answer your question, such a project will create MANY new jobs supposedly for California and Nevada residents. Nevada has one of the highest unemployment rates in the country, so they NEED some jobs. You're talking about a massive and long term project here!

Furthermore, Las Vegas is a MAJOR weekend destination for residents in the L.A. basin. So, providing a high speed rail line will reduce fossil fuel emmissions (and fuel consumption) AND greatly reduce traffic on the I-15 corridor. This will ultimately save lives, reduce degradation of the highway, and stimulate tourism for Vegas (many don't like to drive that far.)

So.... you are "downing" one single project, for ONE area of the country, that will put hundreds to work, contribute to the "greening" of America, and probably increase tax revenue for the governments who will collect the ticket prices for the rail passengers. It should also reduce gasoline consumption, and declaring our independence from OPEC is part of the plan.

Now, just WHAT part of this idea do you think is so stupid?

Assuming that projects like this will be equally spread around the country, the effects will be positive for MANY Americans.

[VitoCorleone99]

Now, just WHAT part of this idea do you think is so stupid?

Assuming that projects like this will be equally spread around the country, the effects will be positive for MANY Americans.

I'll play. It costs $8 billion (that we'll be borrowing).

As per usual, I'm staying out of the partisan elements of the debate and conceding whatever parameters you have chosen to set. Crunch the numbers and explain how you justify the price tag. A billion is a thousand million, as you're well aware. Have at it. Positive effects for "MANY" Americans? How many, exactly, for $8 billion borrowed dollars. (I can name one, but that would go against my nonpartisan mandate, wouldn't it? )

[golfhobo]

Vito, as I've said before.... I'm not an economist. But, most of THEM agree that "spending" (even deficit spending) is an effective way to "recover" a failing economy.

I didn't create this mess, and no one is asking ME how to fix it. I'm just along for the ride like everyone else. But, the wheels were put in motion, and the decision was above my paygrade.

I'm only attempting to explain to those who have a "knee jerk reaction" to the plan, what little I know of how or why it will help.

I heard the other day that the total price tag on this bill worked out to 2,000 for every man, woman and child in America. Now, averaging out the Twilight Flyer clan and the Octomom clan with those of us who are single, that would mean (I'm guessing) about 8,000 dollars for every family of four. That's alot of money for sure. But, if it keeps us from entering a depression, where many MORE of us would lose our jobs, and we'd lose say 30% of our economy (as happened in the 30's) It would be worth it... at least to the family that relies on their 50,000 dollar annual income.

I'm not sure if that makes sense to you, or even to me. I'm just saying that MANY Americans would rather lose 8,000 out of ONE year's salary, than to lose their JOB and their HOME.

I realize this is not the end of the money that will be required. Hell, Japan spent 3 trillion and they have what? a fifth of our population?

I have no way of postulating how much tax revenue, long term, will be generated by all the people who get these jobs or use this service. But, I believe that the economists believe that the return justifies the expense.

This particular project, at 8 billion, works out to about $20 per citizen of the U.S. If I had MY way.... the rich businessmen who own the casinos in Vegas would pay your part, my part, and eveyone else's part!

But, the hoarding Conservatives won't let ME decide who pays for the mess that has been created by greedy businesses who have shipped our jobs overseas to save 20 cents per "widget!"

[golfhobo]

www.recovery.gov

[Rev.Vassago]

I heard the other day that the total price tag on this bill worked out to 2,000 for every man, woman and child in America.

More like $2400 or so.

Now, averaging out the Twilight Flyer clan and the Octomom clan with those of us who are single, that would mean (I'm guessing) about 8,000 dollars for every family of four. That's alot of money for sure. But, if it keeps us from entering a depression, where many MORE of us would lose our jobs, and we'd lose say 30% of our economy (as happened in the 30's) It would be worth it... at least to the family that relies on their 50,000 dollar annual income.

Your point is irrelevant, because they are not giving $8000 to a family of four. That would be something called a "tax cut", and is something that Democrats are against. At least for those who are paying the taxes.

I realize this is not the end of the money that will be required. Hell, Japan spent 3 trillion and they have what? a fifth of our population?

A little less than half.

But, the hoarding Conservatives won't let ME decide who pays for the mess that has been created by greedy businesses who have shipped our jobs overseas to save 20 cents per "widget!"

Those "greedy businesses" shipped those jobs overseas because consumers such as yourself didn't want to pay $0.20 more per "widget".