More than 1,000 drivers must take test again

[dobry4u]

Sorry if this has already been posted. I believe I noted mention of it, but not a link to the interweb news article about it.

More than 1,000 truckers must take test again : Millington Tipton : Memphis Commercial Appeal

[thebaldeagle655]

Guarantee it couldn't have been as blatantly bad as the test I took when the national CDL format was adopted and Texas began testing. There were over 100 drivers that assembled for a "CDL Class." The License examiner told us he was sick and instead of teaching the class he was going to pass out the test and everyone had 3 chances to pass it. I passed the first time with no problem. The ones that had missed too many were handed back the same test answer sheet with the incorrect answers circled in red and a new answer sheet to take the 2nd try on. Needless to say with only 4 choices and knowing which ones you had already gotten wrong, everyone passed!

Unfortunately, these are NOT isolated cases. Just a few months ago I went to a testing facility to have my background test done for my Hazmat Endorsement. I filled out a form, was fingerprinted and my ID photo taken. At no time at the testing facility was any type of ID checked.

Problem with these systems are that the testing agents are often low paid individuals who really have no incentive other than a few bucks to do the right thing.

As for the Swift thing, this shows how stupid our government is to allow a school to test their own students! Gee, do I want to fail this guy and give a black mark against our school or falsify the exam and pass him to make our school look better, thereby ensuring that I have a job! Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that one coming!

[BigDiesel]

Swifties......

[dobry4u]

Swifties......

I believe the article is reflective on the company, and not the drivers.

[cdswans]

Swifties......

I was honest to goodness just about to post that it was too bad you weren't here to join the fracas. I'm wrong on two points . . you're here and there's no fracas!

Has the swelling gone down in the whip welts? Welcome back, regardless.

[Windwalker]

I believe the article is reflective on the company, and not the drivers.

I believe the quality of the company, and the companies actions reflect on the drivers as well. It's too bad that so many drivers that should have gotten a much better start in this career didn't. At the same time, a person can get to be a very good driver without all the proper training. If you've ever found out what more questions you should have asked your trainer by learning the answer on your own...

Another unfortunate part of it is that with companies like CR England, and Swift, the new drivers don't know any better and think that's what this industry is like. They have to other experience to draw on.

[cdswans]

Hang on a minute! Is it a black eye for Swift? Of course it is. How the heck can anyone take this story and arrive at Windwalkers conclusion/condemnation? Did you bother to read the article?

The FBI raided the place and this is what they came away with . .

From the article:

"The Department of Safety "has information indicating a third-party testing company did not administer the skills test in accordance" with state rules, the agency stated."

As in what? The alley dock lines weren't parallel?

Do you really think the FBI went in there to investigate the states business? Get a clue.

The FBI went in there looking for something far more sinister than this. This reads to me like a gang of thugs who didn't find what they were looking for but weren't willing to walk away empty handed. There is no crime, no charges, no trial and . . oops . . there's going to be a penalty! It's the oldest and dirtiest trick in the law enforcement handbook.

Your sweeping indictment of me and my fellow posters is woefully misplaced.

[Windwalker]

I was not trying to imply that there was any kind of black eye for the drivers. But for the company, there certainly is. Swift KNEW what was going on. If they had not ALLOWED it to go on, it would not have. But, is it the only place where that sort of thing is going on? NO!

As for the Swift thing, this shows how stupid our government is to allow a school to test their own students! Gee, do I want to fail this guy and give a black mark against our school or falsify the exam and pass him to make our school look better, thereby ensuring that I have a job! Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that one coming!

And, they'll keep it up until they get caught.

The Department of Safety did not name Swift Driving Academy in Millington, but that's the company whose relationship with the state exploded last February.
Swift trained thousands of drivers, had employees specially designated to administer license tests on behalf of the state, and was the only company in Tennessee that actually housed a state testing center.
Swift also arranged for thousands of students to get a Tennessee license even though they lived out of state.
The Millington motel where the students were housed for three weeks of driving school was established as their legal residence.
It all came to a halt -- the third-party testing and motel residency -- when the FBI led a raid on Swift's school in Millington and terminal in Memphis on Feb. 25.

Swift is implicated up to their ears, just not charged. The same thing if a driver has an accident... The company doesn't know them anymore. How many drivers have we had come to this board and tell us that after one accident, they were terminated? There's one just recently looking for a company that he can work for with a roll-over.

A few years ago, I crossed TX on roads that were wet ice. Golfhobo ran the same road, the same day. I lost count of how many trucks were off the road, jackknifed, and rolled over. Did all those drivers lose their jobs? I doubt it. But the Swift drivers that lost control certainly did. Why? Because their training was incomplete. I put it right back on the company and TEAM TRAINING.

The company (Swift) allowed it, and the drivers are the victims.

[dobry4u]

A few years ago, I crossed TX on roads that were wet ice. Golfhobo ran the same road, the same day. I lost count of how many trucks were off the road, jackknifed, and rolled over. Did all those drivers lose their jobs? I doubt it. But the Swift drivers that lost control certainly did. Why? Because their training was incomplete. I put it right back on the company and TEAM TRAINING.

With all due respect, Windwalker, I am not understanding what you mean. If there were many drivers, including Swift drivers that were off the road, jackknifed, and rolled over why would Swift Training be singled out as incomplete if the results were no different then the training received by the other companies' drivers with these mishaps? If the Swift drivers lost their jobs and not the others wouldn't this be due to Swift company policy and not the training?

[Orangetxguy]

You all need to remember, it's only been 4 years, since Illinois had their own "CDL scam" scandal. That is the "State of". If you recall, the state had numerous testers and auditors involved in passing failed tests. Even the governor...(what was his name...Ryan?) was implicated.

SWIFT is simply the first major company to be associated with a scam right out of the gate.

[Windwalker]

With all due respect, Windwalker, I am not understanding what you mean. If there were many drivers, including Swift drivers that were off the road, jackknifed, and rolled over why would Swift Training be singled out as incomplete if the results were no different then the training received by the other companies' drivers with these mishaps? If the Swift drivers lost their jobs and not the others wouldn't this be due to Swift company policy and not the training?

Let me reverse the question.

As a Swift driver, what was all included in your training? Did they put you on a SKID-PAD? Did they talk about how to recognize icing conditions by looking at the road? Or the tools at your disposal to help you to realize what you are driving on? Did they tell you that any sudden moves with the throttle, brake, or steering wheel could put an end to your trip? Living in the northern lattitudes, you probably already knew far more about driving on icy roads than most of the southern drivers with 20+ experience. They were chaining up to drive 15 to 25 mph of flat highways.

The thread is about Swift and Swift training, but the fact of the matter is that the majority of the trucks that were off the road were being driven by drivers that were not trained to drive in those conditions. Swift is a national carrier that runs ALL states, and their trucks go into ALL weather conditions, but are the drives trained to do that safely?

Not long ago, and I'm sure your remember it, we had a thread about a Swift trainee that died in WA while the trainer was in the bunk. From the things I posted on that thread, you now know better than to hit water on the road at highway speed. You're going to slow down to go through it. Did Swift or their trainer touch on that with you?

I've had several of my trainees come back after about a year and tell me that our conversations during training had saved their butts in freezing rain. One told me about the road with trees on the south side, and remembering what I told her, she slowed down for it, but the truck about half a mile behind her didn't and went off the road. I trainer her in the middle of July. No ice roads to give her any experience.

Another one told me about getting to the top of a hill with no problem at all, while a dozen other trucks were spun-out half way up. She said she broke traction a couple of times on the way up, but was able to go around everybody else and make her delivery on time.

I did a search for a thread I posted a few years ago, where I talked about how to survive on bad roads. I didn't find it. It was full of things the trainers should, but I doubt they do, go over with their trainees. Those are all things that can be talked about while the trainee is driving. Things that can save the trainee's job and future. None of this is touched on if the trainer is running a team truck. So, were the other drivers lacking in their training if they went off the road? Yes, either that or they got careless. But, when you have a hundred truck go off the road in one day because of road conditions, and you only hear about Swift drivers losing their jobs, it tells me that Swift is targetting their drivers for a company short-comming. And, if it is not a short-comming, why was I able to go through it with no problem at all, with a light load, and doing 35 to 40 mph the whole way? Chaining up to run level ground? The only times I have ever chained up was when the western states required it. But I could have easily run the same roads with none, and have run far worse roads with none.

Looks like I'll have to re-post that information about driving on bad roads. And, since Rocky (ROCKYMOUNTAINPRODRIVER) is back, maybe he will join me. He also has very good information.

[Useless]

Swifties......

Overall BigD, it really shouldn't be a big deal.

Now that those SWIFT steering wheel holders have gained a little experience in rolling over crap, taking up 3 spaces at the truck stop, and blocking the fuel lines, they should do fine when they're tested on their abilities!!

[dobry4u]

The thread is about Swift and Swift training, but the fact of the matter is that the majority of the trucks that were off the road were being driven by drivers that were not trained to drive in those conditions. Swift is a national carrier that runs ALL states, and their trucks go into ALL weather conditions, but are the drives trained to do that safely?

I certainly understand your concern about the type of training some drivers receive. When I was reading your post....

A few years ago, I crossed TX on roads that were wet ice. Golfhobo ran the same road, the same day. I lost count of how many trucks were off the road, jackknifed, and rolled over. Did all those drivers lose their jobs? I doubt it. But the Swift drivers that lost control certainly did. Why? Because their training was incomplete. I put it right back on the company and TEAM TRAINING.

I was interpreting it as many drivers had lost control and not just Swift drivers but that Swift drivers were probably fired because of their lack of quality training, hence my questioning of the stated results being the same, was it fair to say that the Swift drivers lost control due to lack of quality training and probably would be fired but not so for the other carrier drivers because they did not have the same training as Swift drivers.

Clearly the article sited the problems were from CDL testing practices. I do not believe part of the CDL tests would include winter driving skills unless it was taken during the winter.

As stated by Stan...

You all need to remember, it's only been 4 years, since Illinois had their own "CDL scam" scandal. That is the "State of". If you recall, the state had numerous testers and auditors involved in passing failed tests. Even the governor...(what was his name...Ryan?) was implicated.

SWIFT is simply the first major company to be associated with a scam right out of the gate.

this (CDL testing procedure compliance) is not an isolated occurrence and I do not believe Swift has a driving academy in Illinois, so more than likely would not have been involved with that review.


I agree, that Swift's training program, after I obtained my CDL, did not include much winter driving training. I was done before snow hit. But, there again, I don't believe the training program relates directly to the article sited. At least as presented.

I do so appreciate yours and the rest of CAD's advice, tips, and experience that they pass along. It is the best training ever!!!

[golfhobo]

With all due respect, Windwalker, I am not understanding what you mean. If there were many drivers, including Swift drivers that were off the road, jackknifed, and rolled over why would Swift Training be singled out as incomplete if the results were no different then the training received by the other companies' drivers with these mishaps? If the Swift drivers lost their jobs and not the others wouldn't this be due to Swift company policy and not the training?

Exactly! One of the rollovers I saw was a Yellow Freight. You think HE lost his job? Was HIS training faulty? IF (and how do we know?) any of the Swifties you saw off the road lost their jobs, it would be due to company policy (probably insurance related.)

And.... that is not necessarily any reflection on their training.... and neither is the article from which I quote:

Dave Berry, a spokesman for Swift Transportation, said .... "Our training, we think, is superior. ... Nowhere in this investigation has the training been called into question ...
"The only thing being called into question is the skills testing."

Swift is not necessarily (although I don't know all the facts,) implicated up to their eyeballs at all. All that is said, is that their TESTING in some way didn't match STATE standards.

As for the "residency" question. I don't get it. MANY posters on here have mentioned that they went to an out of state school that tested them and issued a CDL which then had to be transferred back to their state of residency. Even the ARTICLE mentions many other states that are affected for this reason.

And there is no "penalty" being inflicted by the so-called "thugs" at the FBI. They were looking for homeland security breaches, and when they found none, they issued a report that simply stated that they had uncovered some discrepancy between the method of testing and the STATE requirements. So.... the STATE of Tennessee Dept of Safety has taken the action that it deems consistent with its statutes.

I know it's FUN to rag on Swifties. But, I don't think it is all that accurate. They are a big company with alot of drivers. Every thread I recall from a swifty showed regular "mentor" type training.... not TEAM training. There are people who can't drive no matter HOW much training they get, and MANY of them are in U.S. Xpress trucks, Knight trucks, and other Mega carriers. SOME are even in O/O trucks!

Just because a guy owns his own truck doesn't make him a better, or better trained, driver. And not ALL drivers in O/O trucks are actually the owner. Some owners will put ANY warm body in their trucks. What organization do we have that "certifies" all O/O's as proper "training schools?"

But, the pertinent question here was the skills testing. If you learn on your own, or from a school not certified as a 3rd party tester, you have to test under the auspices of a STATE examiner. He should know his own requirements. But, it is entirely possible that some 3rd party tester may NOT exactly be following those requirements to the letter. Such is the case in Millington.

It should be noted also that for Swift Academy to be authorized as a testing facility, they would have been "trained" by the STATE in the state's requirements. Perhaps the STATE didn't do a good job of "training" the testers at Swift.

Just sayin'

[BigDiesel]

Funny how some Swifty's come running to the defense of their beloved company.... Guess they are blind to the incompetent training and have never had a hood torn off during the daily Swift truckstop special olympics.....

Letting Swift certify and issue a cdl to their lil swifties after " training " is like the fox watching the hen house.....

[golfhobo]

Funny how some Swifty's come running to the defense of their beloved company.... Guess they are blind to the incompetent training and have never had a hood torn off during the daily Swift truckstop special olympics.....

Letting Swift certify and issue a cdl to their lil swifties after " training " is like the fox watching the hen house.....

Well, I'm not and never have been a Swifty, so I know you aren't referring to me. But, due to the size of the company, it is entirely probable that most accidents would include a Swift driver OR one that was trained by them and is now working for another company.... OR an O/O. So, your point is moot.

I've seen a few hoods taken off in a T/S, but I can't say that the majority of those instances included a Swift truck. Maybe, a driver trained by them, but MAYBE a driver who learned on a farm or something.

BTW... just out of curiousity.... where did YOU receive your truck driving training? Or were you born with a stick shift in your mouth?

Where did all YOUR drivers get their training? From you? Not saying that would be bad, but did you train them all from scratch... or did they learn somewhere ELSE first? Would YOU take the risk of hiring a driver with no training and put them in YOUR equipment?

And just cuz I'm ate up with curiousity today.... if you needed a driver, and had only two applicants.... one with 5+ accident free years with Swift, and the other right out of a PTDI school.... which would you hire?

[BigDiesel]

And just cuz I'm ate up with curiousity today.... if you needed a driver, and had only two applicants.... one with 5+ accident free years with Swift, and the other right out of a PTDI school.... which would you hire?

Never needed a driver that bad.....

5+ accident free years as a Swifty ????

You must be on line 5 today for making that statement.... That would be the only explanation for it.

[golfhobo]

Never needed a driver that bad.....

Nice dodge!

5+ accident free years as a Swifty ????

Okay, so it was a "hypothetical!"

You must be on line 5 today for making that statement.... That would be the only explanation for it.

JUST drew the line on my coloring book! Football and beer! It doesn't GET any better!

P.S. Welcome back!

[cdswans]

Funny how some Swifty's come running to the defense of their beloved company.... Guess they are blind to the incompetent training and have never had a hood torn off during the daily Swift truckstop special olympics.....

Letting Swift certify and issue a cdl to their lil swifties after " training " is like the fox watching the hen house.....

I was expecting something a little more venomous. Are you OK?
I drive up there all the time and I haven't hit you, yet.

And another thing . . What's the name of your Company and why is it that your Drivers never come around to say nice things about you?

golfhobo . . An interesting and well reasoned post. I'd like to buy you a drink. I'll be in Grove City, OH sometime around noon on Tuesday. Look me up, OK? Unless you're in Knoxville, now? I have to pick up at Bush Bros. tomorrow, and they don't seem like the type to keep hooch around for the Drivers.

WW . . Of the 16 wrecks/offroads and hundreds of breakdowns I saw during this last trip, the only common themes were LTLs and grain haulers. How should I reconcile that? These are the "real pros" and they run those roads in that weather all the time . . what gives? 1 Swift (breakdown), a smattering of yellow, orange, blue and red but no wrecks and no trend.

I'm going to pm you with a theory I have. Maybe we can agree to disagree or maybe we'll hash it out here . . we'll see.

[BigDiesel]

I was expecting something a little more venomous. Are you OK?
I drive up there all the time and I haven't hit you, yet.

And another thing . . What's the name of your Company and why is it that your Drivers never come around to say nice things about you?

Keep checking back on this topic, I will get right on it by posting my MC#, do you also want my FEIN also ???

What time does the Swift Special Backing Olympics start today ????

Swift's driver mantra : " How much damage have you done today ? "