Well

[BlooMoose]

So what makes humans more special than say cattle when it comes to life..no i'm not a veegan I eat the hell out of beef/poultry...but most people that spout off about sanctity of life seem to have no issues with hunting or eating meat of slaughtered live stock ...I guess it's only certain life that is precious .

Oh, okay...now I see what you are saying. To me, it's because humans have a soul and a "thinking" mind capable of making decisions and not just going off of animal instinct.

I'm like you..I eat a lot of beef/poulty. I still do believe in the sanctity of life. I don't agree will cruel practices in slaughtering animals. But my beliefs are that they (animals, some of them at least) were created so that we would have something to eat. I can't go much deeper into it than that because I have really not reconciled within all things of that nature. But I do see where you are coming from, now.

[Windwalker]

So what makes humans more special than say cattle when it comes to life..no i'm not a veegan I eat the hell out of beef/poultry...but most people that spout off about sanctity of life seem to have no issues with hunting or eating meat of slaughtered live stock ...I guess it's only certain life that is precious .

How do you know that there are not any of us that believe, like the Native Americans, all living things have a soul. And, before you kill and use any of them, you must pray to their souls for forgiveness for having to use them to survive? Each blade of grass you mow has a soul as well. We do a lot of praying.

Sort of like the lion about to pounce on a missionary. At the last second, the lion stopped and started praying. The amazed missionary started to praise GOD because of a "CHRISTIAN LION"... The lion looked up and said, "Shut up. I'm saying grace."

We aren't exactly all heathens like you... Some of us actually live by our beliefs.

[golfhobo]

BlooMoose said:

I read something that I did agree with today but it was just on a blog...this is what it said (referring to Obama):

You don't know what "Drudge" is, but you read and relate to "bloggers?"

"I am grieved that he does not cherish human life in the same way I do…"

It SHOULD be okay in this country for people to have differing opinions about things. When I see him with his daughters, I feel he cherishes human life the same way MOST people do.

but as my dear friend said today, “Why is this even an issue?

Because Christian Conservatives have MADE it an issue!

Why does a human’s opinion on when life begins even matter since life begins at the moment of conception…when God designed it to begin?

Assumes facts NOT in evidence. God is not a proven. A fertilized egg does not always result in an embryo. Some babies are stillborn. Does an unborn fetus have a social security number? Can you get an "earned income tax credit" for a chld that is not yet born? Is an unborn child a citizen of the U.S.?

To get even deeper, and with no malice intended, is a fetus selfsufficient life? It "feeds" off the "host" not unlike a parasite. It would not survive outside the womb. Even the Bible says that God "breathed the breath of life into his creation." A baby will not live even after being born, unless it is forced to take that first breath of life. Furthermore, Christians should believe that god said, "I knew you even before you were conceived in the womb." Does that mean that even the INTENT to have a child is proof of life? Or that life actually begins BEFORE conception?

There are many differing opinions as to when life begins. My OWN have changed somewhat over the years. But, the fact remains that our Constitution clearly states that government will make NO laws based on (respecting) religious beliefs. And I can find nothing in it that defines when life begins, or infringes the right of the living to make their own choices concerning reproductive health/issues.

The Supreme Court of this nation has spoken, and like it or not, THEY are our court of last appeal.... not GOD. They are not tasked with defining what GOD might want, but what our citizens have RIGHTS to under our Constitution. Unlike certain times in China, YOU have the right to bear a child because you have the same right of CHOICE that Roe V. Wade gives to all American women.

This isn’t up for debate!”.

It shouldn't be, but due to religious dogmatism, it still IS! And it is the HEIGHTH of religious intolerance that one would even SAY that! Everything in this country, and this life, is up for debate! When ONE group decides that it isn't, they are attempting to restrict the inalienable rights that belong to all mankind.

Years ago, as I remember it, the debate was about using taxpayer money to pay for the woman's choice of an abortion. I had no choice, under my understanding of the Constitution, but to agree with that stance. But, the water gets muddy when you also consider some taxpayers' objection to the death penalty or pre-emptive war. Notwithstanding those variations, I can live with having the cost of one's "choice" to be borne by oneself. But, I cannot abide one group of "believers" imposing their values, judgements or beliefs on the citizenry as a whole. In case you didn't know, that is exactly what the Taliban was doing in Afghanistan before we, as a nation, decided they must be stopped!

We are all accountable for our own choices…accountable to God whether we believe in Him or not.

Exactly. First, we HAVE the right to make our own choices. And secondly, we are (or should be) accountable ONLY to God for them. NOT to the "religious right," and not to our government.

I am a woman that is Pro-Life. I realize that is a risky stance to take as a woman...

Why? Women who believe in choice, have no problem with those who believe in "fate" concerning pregnancy. What makes your stance "risky" is that it includes the restriction of choice by others. And for that, it makes no difference whether you are female or male. Sticking your nose into my business is risky regardless of your gender.

but life IS precious.

Really? All life? What redeeming value do you find in Charles Manson? Jeffrey Dahmer? Adolf Hitler? Life is what it is. God said, "I will smite mine enemies." Apparently, HE felt that some people didn't deserve to live.

Maybe you could think I am a sheep or something for remaining strong in my personal beliefs. That's okay.

One is not considered a sheep for standing up for their personal beliefs. It is when one "follows" the dogma of others, and insists that they are right and stand in judgement of others, that they lose their perspective on the rights of others to have differing opinions, and become "followers" instead of individuals.

This is all over the place, I know, so to answer your second question is yes. I think we will become censored as never before.

Where is this coming from? Dubya has trampled the 4th Ammendment with his "Patriot Act," and is even now snooping through our internet conversations for "threats" against his government, and you are worried about Obama? What has Obama said that would cause you to think this way? Or did you just read it on someone's BLOG and are parroting it?

[BlooMoose]

Or did you just read it on someone's BLOG and are parroting it?

Just because I read a blog and agree with some sentiments, it doesn't mean I am parroting it. I put it in quotes so it would be evident that the words were not mine...

GH, I'm not running from this discussion...I have had a really stressful weekend with three really sick kids and I just don't have the emotional energy to discuss these things right now. I am just too tired to think today. I'll get back with you.

[golfhobo]

Just because I read a blog and agree with some sentiments, it doesn't mean I am parroting it. I put it in quotes so it would be evident that the words were not mine...

GH, I'm not running from this discussion...I have had a really stressful weekend with three really sick kids and I just don't have the emotional energy to discuss these things right now. I am just too tired to think today. I'll get back with you.

That's okay, Moose! Sorry about the kiddies! Hope they're on the upswing. I wasn't looking for a fight.... just a friendly debate.

I KNOW you put the bloggers comments in quotes. And please understand that my comments about THOSE comments are not really directed at YOU. I'm just debating the author of those comments.

Or, to be more precise.... I am just debating the CONCEPTS that the blogger espoused.

But, I really DO wonder where this idea of censorship is coming from. Liberals are not really KNOWN for that kind of thing, ya know.

[BlooMoose]

That's okay, Moose! Sorry about the kiddies! Hope they're on the upswing. I wasn't looking for a fight.... just a friendly debate.

I KNOW you put the bloggers comments in quotes. And please understand that my comments about THOSE comments are not really directed at YOU. I'm just debating the author of those comments.

Or, to be more precise.... I am just debating the CONCEPTS that the blogger espoused.

But, I really DO wonder where this idea of censorship is coming from. Liberals are not really KNOWN for that kind of thing, ya know.

Thank you! I need some Calgon to take me AWAY!!!!!