Is the USA bankrupt?

[2]

Some think we are in the middle of an economic collapse that will surpass the Great Depression.

[BigDiesel]

Some think we are in the middle of an economic collapse that will surpass the Great Depression.

You must be listening to the Truckin' Bobo.....

[ben45750]

They tried to re-create Woodstock, it just wasn't the same 30 years later. I doubt we will ever see a depression like they did in 29.

[Windwalker]

They tried to re-create Woodstock, it just wasn't the same 30 years later. I doubt we will ever see a depression like they did in 29.

I'm not so sure about that. We can not keep spending $20 Trillion a year on foreign oil without running out of money at some point.

( I can't be out of money... I've still got checks left in my checkbook...)

[DaveP]

They tried to re-create Woodstock, it just wasn't the same 30 years later. I doubt we will ever see a depression like they did in 29.

I'm not so sure about that. We can not keep spending $20 Trillion a year on foreign oil without running out of money at some point.

( I can't be out of money... I've still got checks left in my checkbook...)

We're not creating true "wealth"...

We just keep printing more paper. Instead of "In God We Trust" they may as well replace it with I.O.U.

Somewhere along the line somebodies gotta pay...and pay BIG!

[2]

Some think we are in the middle of an economic collapse that will surpass the Great Depression.

You must be listening to the Truckin' Bobo.....

Yep.
CNBC, and a few others, too.

That's what's got me worried.

Except Larry Kudlow - He was about the last to acknowledge any problem at all, with the economy.

There were a lot of folks who saw the real estate collapse, as much as 4 or 5 years back.

Things sure do seem different, this time.

You cannot mismanage things so bad, without a purpose. And, the purpose appears to be to kill this great experiment of a representative republic.

If your not worried, your not paying attention.
Evidence abounds. You just don't get it, from ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN nor Fox.

Lou Dobbs is the exception, on CNN.

[Colts Fan]

We are not even in a recession. Our GDP has grown the last 2 quarters. Just don't listen to all the doom and gloom from the media.

I don't watch news on the major networks. I'd probably have an ulcer if I did.

[2]

We are not even in a recession. Our GDP has grown the last 2 quarters. Just don't listen to all the doom and gloom from the media.

I don't watch news on the major networks. I'd probably have an ulcer if I did.

If your not worried, your not paying attention.
Evidence abounds. You just don't get it, from ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN nor Fox.

Lou Dobbs is the exception, on CNN

[countryhorseman]

We are not even in a recession. Our GDP has grown the last 2 quarters. Just don't listen to all the doom and gloom from the media.

I don't watch news on the major networks. I'd probably have an ulcer if I did.

[whatsmynameagain]

there has been a large job reduction every single month of the year so far, energy prices are out the roof, housing market is in the crapper and banks are starting to go under(indymac in california just went belly up) and the GDP growth you speak of has been microscopic and I am not even sure if I even trust the numbers the government is putting out there and you dont think we are touching recession? Kinda hard to base not being in a recession on those microscopic gains in the GDP when it is slowing down to a crawl and every other thing around it is going down the toilet if you ask me.

[ben45750]

We are not even in a recession. Our GDP has grown the last 2 quarters. Just don't listen to all the doom and gloom from the media.

I don't watch news on the major networks. I'd probably have an ulcer if I did.

Thank you Colts fan. I think we are just fine and yeah, the major media BLOWS !!

[Windwalker]

Our GDP has grown the last 2 quarters.

Why are we using GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT these days?
It used to be GROSS NATIONAL PRODUCT (GNP).

In fact, the GNP has been going down for more than five years in a row now. It's not convenient to use GNP anymore, so they swtched to GDP. Just like the unemployment figures. Unemployment isn't very high, but look around you and see how many people there are that have gone beyond the benefits. The total unemployed has been going up. Even the "indicators" they've switched to do not look all that good. The indicators they've left behind look bad. In the past year, I've seen things I have NEVER seen before. Things I've only seen in pictures from back in the '30s. It isn't effecting all areas of the country equally, but do a search on "housing forclosures". They've been up at near record levels for two years now. They went down shortly after the Bush administration announced cutting a deal with the mortgage companies, but they've also gone back up again. A couple of guys that have made their living by speculating on houses have stopped because while there are a record number of houses they can buy, they can not sell them anymore. Nobody is buying. One of the guys is now working the cash register at a self-serve gas station. The first time he's got a "regualr job" in more than ten years.

Get the numbers for yourself, and compare that to the proppaganda from ANY news media, and we're already in the crapper and going down. Recession? We're in it. What do you suppose is next?

[ben45750]

In fact, the GNP has been going down for more than five years in a row now.

Here are the GNP Numbers and they are going up.

Units of Measure Billions

Oct-2000 $10,008.40 $9,941.60
Jan-2001 $10,060.20 $9,913.60
Apr-2001 $10,173.50 $9,949.80
Jul-2001 $10,151.80 $9,887.70
Oct-2001 $10,300.90 $9,983.10
Jan-2002 $10,359.50 $10,004.10
Apr-2002 $10,443.30 $10,048.60
Jul-2002 $10,557.00 $10,119.70
Oct-2002 $10,641.10 $10,143.80
Jan-2003 $10,744.90 $10,163.80
Apr-2003 $10,888.40 $10,266.90
Jul-2003 $11,139.80 $10,449.90
Oct-2003 $11,297.30 $10,540.50
Jan-2004 $11,501.70 $10,633.00
Apr-2004 $11,683.10 $10,701.40
Jul-2004 $11,862.30 $10,804.90
Oct-2004 $12,001.10 $10,844.40
Jan-2005 $12,224.00 $10,941.90
Apr-2005 $12,385.10 $11,014.70
Jul-2005 $12,645.70 $11,151.20
Oct-2005 $12,755.00 $11,151.10
Jan-2006 $13,027.50 $11,294.00
Apr-2006 $13,218.90 $11,362.50
Jul-2006 $13,311.90 $11,375.90
Oct-2006 $13,452.40 $11,447.80
Jan-2007 $13,615.10 $11,466.70
Apr-2007 $13,839.40 $11,580.00
Jul-2007 $14,071.60 $11,744.60
Oct-2007 $14,222.10 $11,799.10
Jan-2008 $14,321.90 -

[Windwalker]

Don't know where you got that, but what I read didn't say that. And, yes, I do understand what the graph says.

[StevenD]

War in Iraq, high fuel prices, housing market in a slump, personal debt, all these are individual indicators for the current economic problems, NOT unsolvable, and not historically causes for recession. In addition, look at every election cycle in your lifetime, the economy is/was affected by candidate rhetoric and voter fears of what the next administration will do.

If your world veiw is prone to be doom and gloom, you will find so many flaws with simple reasoning that you deserve what you get, a dark clowd that inhibits you from seeing all the good around you.

On the other hand, you believe that every decade has it's bumps and that even with a combination of factors does not indicate a national recession (as most economists do), then your outlook is unaffected and you put it all into proper perspective.

This may seem an oversimplification of the current situation, which indeed it is. keep in mind "Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one."

Steve

[whatsmynameagain]

dollar hit a new all time low against the Euro today, GM making huge cuts and very large layoffs announced today and oil is up again......getting wore everyday.

[GMAN]

Like most Americans the government has been living beyond their means for years. Our politicians have been busy buying votes with all those "freebies." At some point you will need to pay the piper. We haven't had a balanced budget in many years. They can continue to print money, but until we start manufacturing products in this country we will be in trouble. We continue to send our resources abroad. You cannot pay out more than you earn for long before you will be broke. At some point the money will dry up. By the way, it isn't just the U.S. government who is in trouble. We are in a global recession.

[gordoUSA]

First: You need to understand how the government derives their figures for public consumption.

Unemployment: Numbers are based on the number of people receiving a check for unemployment benefits. This last 26 weeks? ( or did they recently modify). If you do not find work in the 26 weeks and/or you are no longer receiving a check for unemployment benefits >>> You are NO LONGER COUNTED in the unemployment numbers. You cease to exist for their purposes. What consitutes "full employment" for their purposes? This has been changing from administration to administration. Under Reagan the number was around 28 hours a week, Geo 1 a little less, under Clinton a little less, Under the current administration, if you work and are paid wages for 2 hours a week of work you are CONSIDERED EMPLOYED!!!
What they will NEVER tell you is how many people are UNDER employed. That is, they do not make enough money to cover their monthly basic expenses. Many require help from various state agencies and/or relief programs. Again these people cease to exist for the "official" Washington numbers.
It is all "smoke and mirrors" from the politicians in Washington. It helps them hide the REAL fact that they have allowed millions of jobs too many to be shipped overseas on the part of poor trade agreements and the pure greed of corporate America.
Now add the absolute reckless spending of the current administration and Congress, now you have a very serious financial situation. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are now what they term "technically insolovent." If their current obligations were called in they could not pay. But does not mean that MAYBE at some point in the future they MIGHT be able to pay their obligations. The CEO's of these two taxpayer backed organizations make 12 MILLION and 10 MILLION each!!
This is also true of our federal governmant, it is "technically insolvent."
The current administration and Congress have taken a "projected" surplus of trillions and turned it into a DEFICIT of TRILLIONS in the span of 8 short years. (Some will say 10 years, when the Republican lead Congress allowed the "balanced budget" amendment to expire.)
So get ready to reach DEEP into your pockets for a number of years and your childrens lifetime also, to pay for the last 10 years of pure excess from politicians, greed of corporate America, Wall Street, mortgage lenders and the banking industry.

Welcome to the "New World Order."

[countryhorseman]

First: You need to understand how the government derives their figures for public consumption.

Unemployment: Numbers are based on the number of people receiving a check for unemployment benefits. This last 26 weeks? ( or did they recently modify). If you do not find work in the 26 weeks and/or you are no longer receiving a check for unemployment benefits >>> You are NO LONGER COUNTED in the unemployment numbers. You cease to exist for their purposes. What consitutes "full employment" for their purposes? This has been changing from administration to administration. Under Reagan the number was around 28 hours a week, Geo 1 a little less, under Clinton a little less, Under the current administration, if you work and are paid wages for 2 hours a week of work you are CONSIDERED EMPLOYED!!!
What they will NEVER tell you is how many people are UNDER employed. That is, they do not make enough money to cover their monthly basic expenses. Many require help from various state agencies and/or relief programs. Again these people cease to exist for the "official" Washington numbers.
It is all "smoke and mirrors" from the politicians in Washington. It helps them hide the REAL fact that they have allowed millions of jobs too many to be shipped overseas on the part of poor trade agreements and the pure greed of corporate America.
Now add the absolute reckless spending of the current administration and Congress, now you have a very serious financial situation. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are now what they term "technically insolovent." If their current obligations were called in they could not pay. But does not mean that MAYBE at some point in the future they MIGHT be able to pay their obligations. The CEO's of these two taxpayer backed organizations make 12 MILLION and 10 MILLION each!!
This is also true of our federal governmant, it is "technically insolvent."
The current administration and Congress have taken a "projected" surplus of trillions and turned it into a DEFICIT of TRILLIONS in the span of 8 short years. (Some will say 10 years, when the Republican lead Congress allowed the "balanced budget" amendment to expire.)
So get ready to reach DEEP into your pockets for a number of years and your childrens lifetime also, to pay for the last 10 years of pure excess from politicians, greed of corporate America, Wall Street, mortgage lenders and the banking industry.

Welcome to the "New World Order."

1st off, I am about fed up with this supposed "New World Order" BS!!! Last trip to Dallas, that is all I heard on the radio, some idiot spouting off about the doom and gloom of the "New World Order"!!

This crap has been spouted by neighsayers and morons since the late 1700's and to current day! The Mason's, supposedly, were the new world order and at one time, members of the Mason's did control this country!

You want a "New World Order", pull your head out, and learn to be a responsible citizen, and not someone that just spreads crap, and has nothing to contribute!

Next, the original question - Is this country Bankrupt! You bet you behind it is, but the bankruptcy is not of monetary value! It is of MORAL Value! The moral decay of this country over the lost several decades is the end of all that was good! And no, you cannot blame the politicians (for once) for this! You can blame your parents, and yourself for allowing people like Madelin O'hair and the others like her, for destroying the faith that this entire country was built on! People like her, in the bare minimum of society have been given total control over our laws, our courts, and the shaping of our young!

You can blame greedy, wasteful and apathetic Americans - Yes, you, me and everyone we know! The people of this country just want, want, want! We want the big SUV's, the big screen TV's, the GAME Boys, and all the crap that has made us a lazy society! A good majority of posters on this forum just want! They want $1.00 a mile, home every night, and do not want to lift a finger to help themselves, or take responsibility for their own actions and faults! The American people are wasteful! Very darn wasteful! Oh dang, it doesn't work, it is out-of-date, it makes me work to hard - so it gets thrown away! Is this progress - no! It is lazyness! And the real problem there is, that our wastefull attitudes has migrated to a good portion of the developed world! Yes, Oil is the biggest waste we have as a nation!

Ok, I am tire after my 16 hour day, and yes, I am at home, but I work my butt off for what I have! And damn sure do not ask for the handouts a few of you want!

Yes, we are bankrupt! Bankrupt of Moral Character!

Go ahead, Flame away! As that is all many of you are capable of on a regular basis! Quit your dang whining and take responsibility for your own self and your actions!

[gordoUSA]

The method by which the numbers are derived is not crap.

I am totally against what some term the "New World Order" originally penned by G.Bush 1.
I do absolutely agree with the "spoiled" nature of many Americans. They do want everything, now, now,now. One reason why the credit card industry does so well. It is instant gratification of the financial nature.
Of course take the credit cards away from everyone in the country and our economy would really collapse in 3 months.
As a society we have indeed fallen to new lows. It is morally and ethically bankrupt. The elected leaders in Washington are maybe just a reflection of our society as a whole.