July 4 - A time to mourn and weep.

[WarHorse]

[golfhobo]

Jeff replied:

JEFF: Thanks for saying almost everything I was thinking! It is a blessing to hear from a Military man, who has given more than enough for this country, some amount of defense for the Democratic ideals that are cherished mostly by the Left!

Thanks for the kind words, but don't be so quick to assume that I'm taking my place in the liberal campground. At present, I really don't see any political party here which I feel that I identify with in any way, and I'd probably be identified more as a Right leaning sort than a Left leaning sort, but I certainly don't find any affinity with these Neo-Con types.

No offense intended, Jeff. And I did NOT assume that you had pitched your tent with the Liberals. I meant that, with your WORLDVIEW, and even THO you had fought in our Military, YOU were able to perceive the differences between our parties, AND their rhetoric, with an intelligent eye and an open mind. Many people "here" think that ALL our Military members support ONLY the policies of the RIGHT. That is patently untrue! It is INDEED possible to be a Patriot AND a Liberal.... or at least an open minded Centrist and not a Neo Con!

Some here might not believe it, although I've stated it many times, but I TOO have some very "conservative" leanings. But, UNLIKE the most conservative here, I can find reason and rationale within the policies of the "left" (I'd rather not label them all as Liberals.... some are just Democrats.)

That is the beauty of our two-party system.... yet that beauty has been characterized as UGLY by the Conservatives! Witness their spokeswoman Ann Coulter and her constant degradation of "The Liberal!" She, apparently, is too young and "naive" to even realize how many "liberals" DIED in the Revolutionary War to win her the freedom to insult them/us!!

I do not espouse EVERY "liberal" idea in this country. But, I recognize its importance to the "common welfare" of the people, upon which the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence put SO MUCH focus! I have TRIED to keep a "distant perspective" on what I see happening in our country today, but what I see is THIS....

Those on the Left blame the current NEO CON administration (NOT all Conservatives) for its policies that benefit ONLY the RIGHT. But, nearly EVERY "Conservative" who speaks HERE or on radio or T.V. blames ALL our problems on the LIBERALS (i.e the LEFT or Democrats.) Do you SEE my point... and the distinction? To "us" they are the "beneficiaries" of a Prejudicial Administration. To THEM.... "WE" are ALL the Devil!

OUR "beef" is with the President..... THEIR "beef" is with our very EXISTENCE! THEY want this country only for themselves. WE want this country for ALL Americans.

The vast majority of Democrats, and even Liberals, in this country have NO desire for "Socialism." Yet, everyday we are accused of just such motives! As YOU say.... we have no TRUE "left wing" in this country. Sure, we have an insignificant Socialist Party and even a Communist Party.... but the vast majority of "Liberals" do not belong to EITHER!

WE also love Capitalism! WE like free trade and Security! All we ask is that our Government practice "fair representation" of ALL the people, so that the less priviliged have an EQUAL CHANCE at the American Dream, and it is not "reserved to" or "assigned to" those who derive MOST of their wealth and standing to Land Grants, and "appointments" that go back to the days of British Colonial rule! It is no accident that there are so many "Conservative Democrats" in the SOUTH.... where "privilege" came with land grants from England, and wealth was built on land ownership and oppression of the poor (whether slaves or sharecroppers.)

The "class system" (or Feudalism, if you prefer) is as much a part of America as it was of the country we fought for our independence from! Noble ideas are SELDOM the "firstborne" of Noble Men!

Although I agree that the Constitution is under siege..... IMHO, it is being attacked by both sides.... but more heavily from the RIGHT!

I wouldn't lump the entire right in with the Neo-Cons, just as I wouldn't lump the entire Left (American Left.. you really don't have a true Left Wing) in with the Hillary/Obama/Kennedy fanatics.

That aside, the biggest problem, the way I see it, is that both sides are more concerned with finger pointing and flinging accusations about, rather than trying to find any sort of solution to the problem

.

I agree, Jeff.... and I TRY not to. But, it seems that most of "them" are willing to be LED by the NeoCons! And as long as they continue to lump ALL Democrats together with the far left "liberals," and blame ALL our problems on them/us.... I see NO DIFFERENCE in them!

I haven't heard from Greg here in along time.... but he was ONE "Conservative" that had an open mind! HE could discuss the problems of our country without blaming it all on Dems.... AND could even accept some responsibility by his OWN party! THIS is something that is RARE these days in American politics.... and even moreso "on the streets!"

It seems that it has become a "death sentence" for a candidate or representative of EITHER party to be "leaning toward the Center!" I just don't understand this! What is WRONG with reaching across the aisle? What is wrong with Compromise? What is wrong with being a "Uniter?"

Our country is almost EQUALLY divided between Right and Left! It only makes SENSE that we should find compromise in our legislation that would accomodate BOTH political aims, and ALL of our citizens! THAT is what our Forefathers envisioned.... and THAT is what our TRUE American Heroes DIED for in the Revolutionary War! The Last and ONLY "war for our rights and freedoms!" (And possibly the last time we SHOULD have used the word HERO!)

Have a Happy Independence Day Jeff! YOU of all people deserve it! YOU see the true meaning of the American "experiment" and have paid a heavy price to make it your OWN! You are more deserving of "IT" than IT is of YOU! You are a "true" American! And, I say that with NO reservations concerning who you might choose to vote for (if and when you can!)

That being said, I'd still like to see some attempt by the thread starter to answer some of the questions which have been raised in this thread.

[resonse redacted, as I see he has INDEED responded! I haven't read page 2 yet! This should be interesting to say the least. INFORMATIVE would be asking a bit much!]