Citizens became subjects, and didn't even know it.

[2]

The tip of the ice berg...

I apologize I didn't post more earlier, I was posting from my phone.

My faith in "The System"™ has been totally crushed.

I had the inside scoop reading the PACER docs from the beginning.
I've read the transcript in full (unable to be in the courtroom for trial).
I've seen BATFE's video.
I've heard both sides of the argument, and listened well to the Judge at the sentencing hearing today.

I fully expected a mistrial, a vacated verdict, or at least some acknowledgement of prosecutorial misconduct. Instead, I heard how the fact that Olofson once emailed "a Vigilante Group" (the Minutemen) makes him a threat to the public. How the fact that he had the gall to open carry a firearm (no law against OC in WI) while trick-or-treating around the children shows his dangerous unwillingness to abide by the State as well as the Federal law. How his talk of citizen sovereignty is proof of his willingness to circumvent the law. How his twenty-some years of Military service was proof of his expertise at MG manufacturing. How the testimony of his "customer" (Kernicki) was to be taken at face value despite the fact that he contradicted himself and recanted on the stand.

This quote was taken from page 5, of the link, below.

On Tue May 13th, 2008, poster Bladerunner2347 was rail roaded by the government.

Poster Pointman, observes:

The message is we are now supposed to live in fear of the government, because we don't have Freedom of Speech, nor any way of self-defense and the right to life. David has a great shot at winning an appeal, if he can get it before Obama gets in office, because at that point there will be bigger issues for the government to tackle.

CNN's Lou Dobbs, is all over this story.
G. Gordon Liddy podcast aired on the 15th.
Others may have it.

BobCav wrote: To think it only lasted 232 years. Nothing at all compared to the REAL empires of the world.

If things don't change, the only remnant of the America our forefathers designed will be a two page chapter in the history books 100 years from now. Mark my words.

Want to learn the future? Study the past.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/9809-1.html

Moderators:
Just how much privacy do we have, here?
Or, would the better question be:
Just how much risk do we have here?

[Ridge Runner]

The tip of the ice berg...

I apologize I didn't post more earlier, I was posting from my phone.

My faith in "The System"™ has been totally crushed.

I had the inside scoop reading the PACER docs from the beginning.
I've read the transcript in full (unable to be in the courtroom for trial).
I've seen BATFE's video.
I've heard both sides of the argument, and listened well to the Judge at the sentencing hearing today.

I fully expected a mistrial, a vacated verdict, or at least some acknowledgement of prosecutorial misconduct. Instead, I heard how the fact that Olofson once emailed "a Vigilante Group" (the Minutemen) makes him a threat to the public. How the fact that he had the gall to open carry a firearm (no law against OC in WI) while trick-or-treating around the children shows his dangerous unwillingness to abide by the State as well as the Federal law. How his talk of citizen sovereignty is proof of his willingness to circumvent the law. How his twenty-some years of Military service was proof of his expertise at MG manufacturing. How the testimony of his "customer" (Kernicki) was to be taken at face value despite the fact that he contradicted himself and recanted on the stand.

This quote was taken from page 5, of the link, below.

On Tue May 13th, 2008, poster Bladerunner2347 was rail roaded by the government.

Poster Pointman, observes:

The message is we are now supposed to live in fear of the government, because we don't have Freedom of Speech, nor any way of self-defense and the right to life. David has a great shot at winning an appeal, if he can get it before Obama gets in office, because at that point there will be bigger issues for the government to tackle.

CNN's Lou Dobbs, is all over this story.
G. Gordon Liddy podcast aired on the 15th.
Others may have it.

BobCav wrote: To think it only lasted 232 years. Nothing at all compared to the REAL empires of the world.

If things don't change, the only remnant of the America our forefathers designed will be a two page chapter in the history books 100 years from now. Mark my words.

Want to learn the future? Study the past.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/9809-1.html

Moderators:
Just how much privacy do we have, here?

We Store Information
To participate in these forums you must register. The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, the webmaster, administrator and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.



Or, would the better question be:
Just how much risk do we have here?

If you feel for some reason you are at risk by posting here, then feel free to NOT do so.

[golfhobo]

Just WHAT is your beef here, 2 ?

I don't see anything in your post that would even suggest that this board has been compromised by the government, or anyone else!

EVERYTHING one posts on the internet is open to the public. The government doesn't even NEED any special rights to read it.

And it is no secret that they can identify the poster IF that becomes an issue. But, I can assure you they have bigger fish to fry!

I have been a very vocal opponent of THIS administration for years now on the internet, and they haven't come to "visit" me. I don't think they would really WANT to!

I guess I failed to see your point!

[vavega]

2's posts are somewhat of a mystery shrouded in an enigma. sometimes if i'm bored on a sunday morning it's fun to try and figure them out. this one is interesting as it's essentially about one man's fight against exsisting gun control laws. it might have gotten a better reception if he chose a different way of posting it, but as it is.........

:?

[Windwalker]

I have been a very vocal opponent of THIS administration for years now on the internet, and they haven't come to "visit" me. I don't think they would really WANT to!

Think about it Hobo... You're a truck driver... Always moving... They simply haven't caught up with you yet...

As to the weapon, you CAN buy guns that are easily converted to fully automatic function. Since they have records that he bought the parts to do so, and that they were installed in the weapon, it would suggest that he would have made the modification himself. Once the weapon becomes fully automatic, it is no longer a legal weapon. It is my own understanding that in order to even own a fully automatic weapon, you must have a permit from BATF, such as the one posted next to the THOMPSON at White's Truck Stop in Raphine, VA.

Much the same as, you can own explosive materials. You can even store it in a pipe. It becomes illegal when you add a means of detonation, because that is the moment it becomes a pipe-bomb.

As far as I know, if he fired it as a fully automatic weapon at the shooting range, he has no defense.

[Windwalker]

Come to think of it, when I was in my mid-teens, we had a neighbor with a pump-action 12 guage. Don't know the make or model, but something inside had worn and if you weren't careful when you fired it, it would fire, the action would work, and another shell would go off. He showed several of us what it would do by holding it with one hand. If he held the trigger, it would empty a five shot magazine, rapid fire. One day, a DNR warden got to see it go off that way, and it was immediately confiscated. He was not charged with anything because it was a matter of parts being worn, he had done nothing to modify it. But he did not get the gun back either. I understand it was destroyed.

[2]

Just WHAT is your beef here, 2 ?

I don't see anything in your post that would even suggest that this board has been compromised by the government, or anyone else!

EVERYTHING one posts on the internet is open to the public. The government doesn't even NEED any special rights to read it.

And it is no secret that they can identify the poster IF that becomes an issue. But, I can assure you they have bigger fish to fry!

I have been a very vocal opponent of THIS administration for years now on the internet, and they haven't come to "visit" me. I don't think they would really WANT to!

I guess I failed to see your point!

No beef with the board, at all.
It is a generally well run board.

The risk question was more of a rhetorical one.
If you take a broad view and look around, you will notice how we are being suppressed at every turn, more and more.

More taxes, regulations and even harassment.
We are like the frog in hot water, and the temperature is rising, fast.

The US Constitution was possible because of a handful of men. They risked their wealth and their lives, while the majority were blissfully ignorant.

I was hoping that the comments that I quoted, would stir a great deal of passion. But, such is not the case, apparently.

I attribute the mess that we are in, to liberals, and consider them the enemy within.

I want my country back, and have little hope, at the moment.

[Windwalker]

There are just a few things you might want to consider about what you had to say.,..

The US Constitution was possible because of a handful of men. They risked their wealth and their lives, while the majority were blissfully ignorant.

And, the US CONSTITUTION is STILL POSSIBLE because of the men and women that came after them, and not only risked everything, but even gave everything to keep it alive in this country. Maybe you need to look at THE WALL in Washington DC. You might want to consider the fact that there are quite a number of men, and women, that have already risked EVERYTHING in YOUR LIFETIME so that you can say what you want.

I was hoping that the comments that I quoted, would stir a great deal of passion. But, such is not the case, apparently.

The fact is that you did stir up passion. But it seems that you were looking for COMPASSION. Right is right, and wrong is still wrong. It sounds to me like he tried something that he really knew was not legal, and is now trying to cover his own butt. Also, taking a weapon like that out to a public rifle range suggests his IQ could use a little elevation.

I attribute the mess that we are in, to liberals, and consider them the enemy within.

It's not just the Liberals. Take a good look at all the people we have in office. How many of them have any idea what it's like to work for a living? Back when this country was young, they all knew what it was like to work. Today, name one that has actually worked blisters on his or her hands. Nearly all of them were born with SILVER SPOONS in their mouths. It's not possible for a man to understand what it's like for a woman to have a baby. It is not possible for a woman to understand what it is like for a man to have a sex drive, but since men have them, women have to have them too. And, a politician does not understand what it is like to actually work for a living.

I want my country back, and have little hope, at the moment.

I believe we ALL want that. This year, I'm offering a solution. Write my name in on the ballot when you vote. I've been a working man all my life and have had too many times when I thought I saw light at the end of the tunnel, only to have the tax man inform me I was wrong. I don't have to win to succeed, but I DO NEED votes. Yes, I want my country back too.

[geomon]

Just cause I'm the contrarian I am: Food for thought at least

Jay Leno wrote (or said) this ....

'The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some poll
data I found rather hard to believe. It must be true, given the source, right?

The Newsweek poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are unhappy with the
direction the country is headed, and 69 percent of the country is unhappy with the
performance of the President. In essence, 2/3's of the citizenry just isn 't happy
and want a change.

So being the knuckle dragger I am, I started thinking, ''What are we so unhappy
about?''


Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?

Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning in the summer and heating in
the winter?

Could it be that 95.4 percent of these unhappy folks have a job?

Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time, and see more
food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?

Maybe it is the ability to drive from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic O cean
without having to present identification papers as we move through each state?

Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe motels we would find along the way that
can provide temporary shelter?

I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world
is just not good enough.

Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and
provide services to help all, and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.

Perhaps you are one of the 70 percent of Americans who own a home. You may be
upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained
firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the
flames thus saving you, your family and your belongings.

Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler
intrudes, an officer equipped with a gun and a bullet-proof vest will come to defend
you and your family against attack or loss.

Thi s all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging
the residents. Neighborhoods where 90 percent of teenagers own cell phones and
computers.

How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the
envy of everyone in the world?

Maybe that is what has 67 percent of you folks unhappy.

Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever seen.
No wonder the world loves the U.S. , yet has a great disdain for its citizens.

[Windwalker]

What? You trying to start a fight or something?

Just cause I'm the contrarian I am: Food for thought at least

Jay Leno wrote (or said) this ....

'The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some poll
data I found rather hard to believe. It must be true, given the source, right?

The Newsweek poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are unhappy with the
direction the country is headed, and 69 percent of the country is unhappy with the
performance of the President. In essence, 2/3's of the citizenry just isn 't happy
and want a change.

So being the knuckle dragger I am, I started thinking, ''What are we so unhappy
about?''


Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?

Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning in the summer and heating in
the winter?

Could it be that 95.4 percent of these unhappy folks have a job?

Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time, and see more
food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?

It's not the food... It's the prices and the reason for them.

Maybe it is the ability to drive from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic O cean
without having to present identification papers as we move through each state?

And, we used to do it with cars, trucks, and motorhomes. In the near future, we're going to have to do so with bicycles and skateboards.

Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe motels we would find along the way that
can provide temporary shelter?

Of course, in order to make use of them, we'll first have to get to them. And, we may find that they've been closed down by then because the tourist industry may not exist anymore.

I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world
is just not good enough.

Been living on "peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for the last ten years haven't you. Need to go to one of those restaurants and see what the prices have been doing there too. Then, again, as they have to price themselves out of business, we'll have to pack a large lunch on our bicycles.

Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and
provide services to help all, and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.

And, when we get to that hospital, we find out that they have MEDICAL CREDIT RATINGS, and if our income has not kept up with the price of oil, we can not afford health insurance, and they will not treat us.

Perhaps you are one of the 70 percent of Americans who own a home. You may be
upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained
firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the
flames thus saving you, your family and your belongings.

Or, you might be one of the 70% of Americans that USED to own a home, but lost it to MORTGAGE FORCLOSURE because your income has not kept up with the increase in the cost of energy and food.

Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler
intrudes, an officer equipped with a gun and a bullet-proof vest will come to defend
you and your family against attack or loss.

Thi s all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging
the residents. Neighborhoods where 90 percent of teenagers own cell phones and
computers.

And, obviously, Jay Leno lives in a PENTHOUSE APPARTMENT where the rapists and burglars would have to take too much time to get there, and too much time to escape with his goods. But, 70% of Americans live down at street level, and those same rapists and burglars drive or walk past the front door half a dozen times a day, if not more, and when you call 911, it can take up to 20 minutes for the cops to get there. By that time, the rapist is finished and gone, and the burglar has already cashed in your belongings.

How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the
envy of everyone in the world?

Maybe that is what has 67 percent of you folks unhappy.

Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever seen.
No wonder the world loves the U.S. , yet has a great disdain for its citizens.

Spoken like someone that has truly lost touch with reality. [/u][/b]

[geomon]

Spoken like someone that has truly lost touch with reality.

Reality?....lost that by livin in Boulder Colo in the late '70's 8)

[Drew10]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/hitnail.asp

Link above is the complete "monoloque" that Jay Leno Did Not, write or say.
Doesnt change the intent or meaning of the geomons' post, but thought I'd look it up in snopes for author verification.

[geomon]

Thanks for the correction Drew10. That was thrown up mostly to stir the pot :wink:

One must never take what comes in over internet as the absolute truth as anyone can post anything anytime....

[Uturn2001]

Bit by bit the freedoms that we enjoy, or rather used to enjoy, are being nibbled away. Many times we are not even aware of them unless they bite us in the azz or someone close to us.

I honestly do not know what is scarier. The fact that the government on all levels are taking away our rights and freedoms, the fact that many people are willingly giving them away, or that many more simply roll over and take it.

For those that do not believe that the American people are being subjugated consider this. In the state of Illinois, state agencies are now allowed to send notices of legal proceeding via US Mail with no requirement for ensuring the person the notice is for receives it. The notice, which is really a subpoena, is considered served when the clerk who places it in the outgoing mail signs a statement saying that it was placed in the mail with the proper postage attached.

Failing to show for the proceeding is considered a contempt of court and you can be arrested and the fact the notice did not arrive is not a defense. Other states may do this too, I do not know. I only know that this BS is acceptable in Illinois.

[Double L]

You got that right Uturn and we're losing our freedoms thanks to the Patriot Act. But ya know it's a proven fact that people are willing to give up their freedoms for security! That was what my government teacher said which made me wonder where we'll be as a nation 5, 10, 20 years from now. Honestly I'm worried, REALLY REALLY worried about how much freedom we'll have and how we'll be as a nation. :? :shock: One of these days the American people are gonna get a wake up call and I hope it's SOON and I mean VERY VERY SOON! With all the stuff thats going on it makes me want to become a politican to hopefully bring about some change in this country but I rather be a good ole independent truck driver over a poltician!

[Windwalker]

Bit by bit the freedoms that we enjoy, or rather used to enjoy, are being nibbled away. Many times we are not even aware of them unless they bite us in the azz or someone close to us.

I honestly do not know what is scarier. The fact that the government on all levels are taking away our rights and freedoms, the fact that many people are willingly giving them away, or that many more simply roll over and take it.

For those that do not believe that the American people are being subjugated consider this. In the state of Illinois, state agencies are now allowed to send notices of legal proceeding via US Mail with no requirement for ensuring the person the notice is for receives it. The notice, which is really a subpoena, is considered served when the clerk who places it in the outgoing mail signs a statement saying that it was placed in the mail with the proper postage attached.

Failing to show for the proceeding is considered a contempt of court and you can be arrested and the fact the notice did not arrive is not a defense. Other states may do this too, I do not know. I only know that this BS is acceptable in Illinois.

It's been that way for some time in WI if it is due to your driver's license. My daughter's license was suspended and she was stopped and cited for driving on a suspended license. She called and recorded the call.

Daughter: How come it's suspended? Why didn't I get a notice?

DOT: It was suspended because you didn't pay your fine, and you did get a notice.

Daughter: No I didn't get a notice. If I had, I would not have been driving.

DOT: You got the notice. The computer says you got it.

Daughter: The computer says? How does the computer know? If your computer can tell you that I've had it in my hand, you've got STAR WARS beat.

DOT: "CLICK"

In many areas of this country, you can not get a job, and it's the only transportation available. But, your driver's license is a PRIVELEDGE. As long as they class it as such, they can do anything they want with it. They refuse to admit that for many people, it is essential. And, they seem to keep trying to come up with more ways to take it away from you.

And, as far as that goes, Uturn, if challenged, IL law will get struck down. Same as the MIRANDA RIGHTS. But, it MUST be challenged in FEDERAL COURT. But, the way they will get away with it, and reek havoc with it, is the simple fact that those affected by it are unable to afford a lawyer to fight it. And, that is what is at the bottom of most the problems in this country.

[DaveFromColorado]

the Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak had his drivers license suspended, and he was totally unaware, even though the DMV claimed they'd sent him a letter, he swears he'd never received it.

It's a new precident which has been set by a government official which will help those who are actually caught in a similar situation ... at least those of us who live in MN.

--Dave.

[gordoUSA]

If your daughter or the Mayor were ILLEGAL aliens you bet bet your azz they wouldn't have been treated in such a shabby fashion. Those DMV folks could get into a heap of trouble, maybe loose their jobs for treating a ILLEGAL in such a manner, ILLEGALS have rights!!!!
Average American citizen?

[Outlaw7577]

Very Interesting......