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Thread: Drivers, beware...

  1. #1
    Windwalker's Avatar
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    Default Drivers, beware...

    You may not want to take a walk into the tall grass around the paved area of the truck stops in FL. And, watch where you take your dog for it's walk too.
    As if killer bees and kudzu weren't enough, the southern United States may soon have another invasive species to contend with — giant Burmese pythons capable of swallowing deer and alligators whole.

    Approximately 30,000 of the big snakes, which can reach 30 feet and 200 pounds, already live wild in Florida's Everglades, thanks to thick-headed pet owners who've released them into the swamps when they've grown too large to keep at home.

    But now the U.S. Geological Survey says Florida is not the only place the Burmese python can thrive.

    In fact, the big beasts, which are not poisonous and rarely attack humans, could live happily in the entire southern third of the country, from Southern California to Texas and the Lower Mississippi Valley and up the Eastern Seaboard to Chesapeake Bay.

    All it would take would be enough pet releases in various locations to create a breeding population.

    • Click here to visit FOXNews.com's Natural Science Center.

    A few years ago, captains Al Cruz and Ernie Jillson of the Miami-Dade Fire Rescue department pulled up in front of an apartment building.
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    o Slithering Across America

    A crowd gathered on the grass was watching a 10-foot Burmese python slowly squeeze a large Muscovy duck to death. But the lanky juvenile snake then struggled to get the 12-pound duck down its throat.

    Cruz and Jillson, members of Miami-Dade Rescue's specialized Venom 1 unit, wrestled the snake under control as feathers flew. They carted the python away, not to be euthanized but to make sure it ended up where it wouldn't kill native animals or pets.

    "Lately it's getting worse," Jillson said. "We're going to find even more of these animals."

    In 2004, wildlife researchers found a gory tableau in the Everglades — a 13-foot python had swallowed a six-foot alligator whole. Then the snake's abdomen burst open, killing it and leaving both animals forever conjoined in reptilian mutually assured destruction.

    In April of this year, a Eugene, Ore., police officer had to pry a pet-store owner's hand, which may have smelled like mice, from a 12-foot python's mouth. The snake even made a dash for the exit before being wrangled back into its cage.

    Slithering Across America

    The Oregon snake probably couldn't have survived in the Northwestern wilderness, but officials worry that pet Burmese pythons released into warmer areas could establish new populations. It would take about 50 individuals to ensure a viable community.

    The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is considering listing the snakes as injurious wildlife under the Lacey Act, which would prohibit them from being imported or carried across state lines.

    Unfortunately, the horse has already left the barn. One million live Burmese pythons were legally imported into the U.S. between 2001 and 2006, according to Fish and Wildlife. Almost all of them ended up as pets, and half of them came in through Miami.

    "We don't have tools that are sufficient to control them on a continental scale," says Gordon Rodda, an invasive snake expert at the Fort Collins Science Center in Colorado, and lead author of the USGS study determining the extent of the snake's possible range.

    Climate is the key factor in whether a snake can live or die in any given area. The USGS study, published in the February issue of the scientific journal Biological Invasions, found that conditions — including temperature and rainfall — in the lower third of the continental U.S. match those where pythons live in Southeast Asia, India and China.

    The northern limits of the hypothetical U.S. range are open to some interpretation among snake experts, but most agree that the maps accurately predict where the pythons could survive. And since closely related Indian pythons live in the foothills of the Himalayas, where temperatures can dip to 40 degrees Fahrenheit, there's some wiggle room.

    When the thermometer gets that low, or seasonal conditions get too dry, snakes aren't up for doing much and will simply hibernate, possibly for as long as four months.

    A 10-foot snake ideally requires a fairly large, empty cavity to crawl into, but a hole under a tree stump or a rock pile will suffice.

    Getting enough food isn't a big problem for Burmese pythons — they seem to prefer birds and rats, but will eat almost anything.

    "If you're a sit-and-wait predator, you're probably going to grab it if it goes by," Rodda said. "You're not going to say, 'I don't feel like bluebirds today, I'd rather wait for a quail.'"

    Top of the Food Chain

    In 2003, when park rangers first confirmed that the pythons were breeding in the Everglades, some experts figured the abundant alligators would keep them in check. No such luck.

    "This indicates to me it's going to be an even draw," University of Florida wildlife professor Frank Mazzotti told the Associated Press in 2005 after the famed conjoined-in-death carcasses were found. "Sometimes alligators are going to win, and sometimes the python will win."

    Kenney Krysko, a herpetologist at the Florida Museum of Natural History in Gainesville who performs necropsies on every Burmese python caught by the National Park Service, has seen a couple of cases of the snake coming out on top.

    "We just found our second alligator," says Krysko, referring to a recent snake examination. "We found them eating lots of wading birds. We found at least one bobcat, and at least one white-tailed deer."

    Krysko stopped to correct himself. "It was mostly just some hair remnants and four hooves."

    The pythons have extended their range down into the Florida Keys, where they lunch on the endangered Key Largo wood rat.

    "Look at the end of the mainland to Key Largo — it's kind of a long way," says Paul T. Andreadis, a herpetologist at Denison University in Granville, Ohio.

    But food may not be the only reason to traverse salty waters. Most of the snakes captured in Key Largo have been males who could be looking for mates.

    "How far would they go for a date could potentially be a long distance," speculates Andreadis.

    On the other hand, the mainland snakes don't seem to be taking food off any rival predator's table.

    "There's no indication prey are in short supply," says Andreadis.

    Others think the snakes are just getting started in a relentless, if slow-moving, slither across Florida and then into the rest of the Southeast.

    "Once they hit the sugar cane fields [around Lake Okeechobee], it's definitely a lost cause," due to the large rat population there, Krysko said. "It's already a lost cause."

    Even more alarmingly, Krysko said that the snakes he's received from up near Naples, Fla., are probably not transient Everglades snakes, but rather more released pets.

    Some herpetologists argue there's still one highly efficient, dominant predator that could stop the pythons — us.

    "When these things reach major urbanized areas, are they going to want to go across a Wal-Mart parking lot?" wonders Michael Dorcas, a biologist at Davidson College in North Carolina who tracks pythons using radio transmitters.

    The answer could be yes. Ernie Jillson of Miami-Dade Rescue says most of his unit's Burmese python removals are from the heart of suburbia — curled up next to air-conditioning units, in swimming pools, under garages.

    Rodda thinks residents of the southern U.S. need to be vigilant about not releasing pet pythons. He stresses that the authorities no longer consider their efforts a removal campaign for the invasive species, but simply a management campaign.

    "The longer it takes, the harder it gets," Rodda says. "That is certainly the case here. It's getting harder with every passing day."

    Just thought you might like to know about it.
    Destroy the cities...
    and they will rebuild them.
    Destroy the farms...
    and grass will grow in the streets of the cities.

    Destroy the economy of the blue-collar worker...
    and grass will grow in the executive offices.

    The bill has come due.
    ( R E T I R E D , and glad of it)


  2. #2
    Double L is offline Senior Board Member
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    Interesting Windwalker :shock:

  3. #3
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    Snakes are cool. 8)

    Interesting issue, too. One one hand, I can appreciate the arguments that it's an invasive species. But on the other hand, environments change and adapt and if a python can exist in the southern United States, who's to stop it? If they can adapt, then so to must we.

    Just my $.02.

  4. #4
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    But that is one big azz snake TF. A shovel don't kill them. I don't like any snake, especially one that I can't kill because of it's size. Wouldn't last long around the Chesapeake Bay anyways with how cold it gets up here. It would have to migrate south in the fall or risk freezing to death.

  5. #5
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    Just be glad we don't have a bunch of reticulated pythons around. Those are the man-eaters.

    But still, the world is a constantly changing environment. Today, we don't deal with anything more dangerous than alligators down south and a dozen or so types poisonous spiders and snakes (and none of them deadly poisonous), against mostly in the southern U.S. What tomorrow brings, one never knows. What we need to do is the same thing the snakes are doing.

    Adapt.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer
    What we need to do is the same thing the snakes are doing.

    Adapt.
    ...so true. I'm a survivor. So many of my Bro's are gone, and it use to be, about 50 years ago, you'd say "hey...anybody seen Pete..or Elmer lately?" Almost every week a feller would be missing, most forever, yet some hardy blokes would return a month later with a freshly gnawed off arm or leg.

    The female Great Northern Michigan Sasquatches were here before us, though, and not a newly transplanted species. We've had to learn to adapt to surviving their "mating season."

    Fortunately, the Tourism hasn't been attacked, as most tourist come up here from Memorial Day to Labor Day. During this period, these Sasquatch have migrated further north, and summer in the swamps of Northern Canadia.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer
    Just be glad we don't have a bunch of reticulated pythons around. Those are the man-eaters.

    But still, the world is a constantly changing environment. Today, we don't deal with anything more dangerous than alligators down south and a dozen or so types poisonous spiders and snakes (and none of them deadly poisonous), against mostly in the southern U.S. What tomorrow brings, one never knows. What we need to do is the same thing the snakes are doing.

    Adapt.
    I think if you really look into it, you'll find that virtually every species of python has been released into the wild in FL. Burmese is simply the most populated. But two weeks ago, a neighbor had a ball python removed from behind his shed in the back yard. And, one of the guys trying to capture it and remove it did get bit. That's one that will strike at almost anything that moves. I'm also told that there is a "breeding population" of cobras in the southern Everglades. Couldn't tell you if it's the King Cobra, Spitting Cobra, or which variety. There are places in FL that you really want to tread carefully. And, I have no idea just how far they may spread in years to come.
    Destroy the cities...
    and they will rebuild them.
    Destroy the farms...
    and grass will grow in the streets of the cities.

    Destroy the economy of the blue-collar worker...
    and grass will grow in the executive offices.

    The bill has come due.
    ( R E T I R E D , and glad of it)


  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windwalker
    Couldn't tell you if it's the King Cobra, Spitting Cobra, or which variety
    DOES IT MATTER? You had me at Cobra!
    Paranoia is nothing more than the pathological habit of paying close attention.
    All ideas in this communication are sole property of the voices in my head. (C) 2006, "The Voices" (TM)

  9. #9
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    Well, as soon as someone reports a breeding population of black mambas, then I'll be packing up and moving to a research station in the Arctic.

    Interesting about the Cobras. I hadn't heard that one. I have heard stories of Brazillian Wandering Spiders being found in Texas. Now there's a spider I would definitely not want to mess with. :shock:

  10. #10
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    They ain't snakes, but...

    Ant Invasion

    Some excerpts...

    DALLAS - In what sounds like a really low-budget horror film, voracious swarming ants that apparently arrived in Texas aboard a cargo ship are invading homes and yards across the Houston area, shorting out electrical boxes and messing up computers.
    ---snip---

    The ants — formally known as "paratrenicha species near pubens" — have spread to five Houston-area counties since they were first spotted in Texas in 2002.

    The newly recognized species is believed to have arrived in a cargo shipment through the port of Houston. Scientists are not sure exactly where the ants came from, but their cousins, commonly called crazy ants, are found in the Southeast and the Caribbean.
    ---snip---

    The good news? They eat fire ants, the stinging red terrors of Texas summers.

    But the ants also like to suck the sweet juices from plants, feed on such beneficial insects as ladybugs, and eat the hatchlings of a small, endangered type of grouse known as the At****er prairie chicken.

    They also bite humans, though not with a stinger like fire ants.
    ---snip---

    It's not enough just to kill the queen. Experts say each colony has multiple queens that have to be taken out.

    And when you do kill these ants, the survivors turn it to their advantage: They pile up the dead, sometimes using them as a bridge to cross safely over surfaces treated with pesticide.
    ---snip---

    Smart little buggers.

    Pretty interesting article. It just goes to show you how much things change.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer
    They ain't snakes, but...

    Ant Invasion

    Some excerpts...
    :shock:
    DALLAS - In what sounds like a really low-budget horror film, voracious swarming ants that apparently arrived in Texas aboard a cargo ship are invading homes and yards across the Houston area, shorting out electrical boxes and messing up computers.
    ---snip---

    The ants — formally known as "paratrenicha species near pubens" — have spread to five Houston-area counties since they were first spotted in Texas in 2002.

    The newly recognized species is believed to have arrived in a cargo shipment through the port of Houston. Scientists are not sure exactly where the ants came from, but their cousins, commonly called crazy ants, are found in the Southeast and the Caribbean.
    ---snip---

    The good news? They eat fire ants, the stinging red terrors of Texas summers.

    But the ants also like to suck the sweet juices from plants, feed on such beneficial insects as ladybugs, and eat the hatchlings of a small, endangered type of grouse known as the At****er prairie chicken.

    They also bite humans, though not with a stinger like fire ants.
    ---snip---

    It's not enough just to kill the queen. Experts say each colony has multiple queens that have to be taken out.

    And when you do kill these ants, the survivors turn it to their advantage: They pile up the dead, sometimes using them as a bridge to cross safely over surfaces treated with pesticide.
    ---snip---

    Smart little buggers. :shock: :shock: :shock:

    Pretty interesting article. It just goes to show you how much things change.

    And that is just about enough of that...MR Bat Critter !!!! :twisted:
    Space...............Is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence! Star Trek2009

  12. #12
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    You sure you don't want me to launch into a disseration on spiders? 8)

    The ant one was pretty cool. It was a Yahoo story today, right when we were talking about that very type of thing on this thread. Thought it was spookily relevant.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer
    You sure you don't want me to launch into a disseration on spiders? 8)
    What's with the spiders? Just curious. My mom got bit by a brown recluse once, talk about poisonous. The scar it left looks like a bullet hole.

  14. #14
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    I've been bitten, too. Twice. I didn't have much of a reaction the first time, but I was pretty concerned the second time. The 2nd bite was on the inside of my bicep and the discoloration area was the size of a baseball. When the bulls-eye broke, though, I went right into cleansing mode and didn't end up with a bad reaction at all. It just pitted out for a couple weeks, then healed over quite nicely.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mommee
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer
    You sure you don't want me to launch into a disseration on spiders? 8)
    What's with the spiders? Just curious. My mom got bit by a brown recluse once, talk about poisonous. The scar it left looks like a bullet hole.
    I don't seem to react that badly to them. Just a mark about the size of a match-head. But, there are others that seem to actually lose a lot of tissue in the area of the bite. I'm told that it's actually a "staff infection" that sets in and does the real damage. I'm also told that the more bites you get, the more sensitive you become, and this may be true because I do know it's true with poison ivy.

    I"m not all that concerned about what we have here, but down in Argentina, I think it is, there is a catipillar that has spines with an extreme poison that will kill anyone that touches them. They don't know where they came from, but they've got them.

    For now, I think the snakes and spiders are bad enough. We really don't need anymore.
    Destroy the cities...
    and they will rebuild them.
    Destroy the farms...
    and grass will grow in the streets of the cities.

    Destroy the economy of the blue-collar worker...
    and grass will grow in the executive offices.

    The bill has come due.
    ( R E T I R E D , and glad of it)


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer
    I've been bitten, too. Twice. I didn't have much of a reaction the first time, but I was pretty concerned the second time. The 2nd bite was on the inside of my bicep and the discoloration area was the size of a baseball. When the bulls-eye broke, though, I went right into cleansing mode and didn't end up with a bad reaction at all. It just pitted out for a couple weeks, then healed over quite nicely.
    At the time we didn't know what was happening. Within 24-48 hours my mom was getting the chills and not feeling well. I looked at the wound and told her that something was wrong because it wasn't healing right. That's when she saw the doctor and found out what bit her. At it's worst the bite sight was the size of a quarter and you could fit about 4 quarters in it. That's how deep it was.

  17. #17
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    Recluse venom is nasty, but it's not a killing venom like a Black Widow's, which is a neurotoxin and works by shutting down organs and body functions. Instead, recluse venom necrotizes the tissue and does exactly what the flesh eating virus does. Google or Yahoo images on spider bites and more specifically recluse bites...you'll see some truly unbelievable (grossly so) pictures. People lose entire arms and legs due to recluse bites.

  18. #18
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    My mom's bite was gross enough and I have seen those pictures on the web. She got bit on her left shoulder blade. She had to go to a general surgeon to get all the dead tissue out. He scraped of a lot because it was about 3-4 days, after the bite, before she saw him. We, me and my dad, were the ones who cleaned out the wound everyday. My brother couldn't do it. The scar looks like a bullet wound now.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Flyer
    Recluse venom is nasty, but it's not a killing venom like a Black Widow's, which is a neurotoxin and works by shutting down organs and body functions. Instead, recluse venom necrotizes the tissue and does exactly what the flesh eating virus does. Google or Yahoo images on spider bites and more specifically recluse bites...you'll see some truly unbelievable (grossly so) pictures. People lose entire arms and legs due to recluse bites.
    I was bit behind my left knee, right on the inner portion of the joint of the knee, by a Black Widow in July of 06. The bite happened about 6:30 in the morning while I was loading a roll-off box onto a trailer. By the time I had the box secured, weighed and driven to the shipping office of the plant, the area was bright red and had swollen to the size of a softball.

    LOL...I commented to the lady whom processed haz-waste manifests, that a critter had bitten my leg, and she ordered me to roll up the legging of my coveralls. One look at that sucker and she had an EMT come to the office (Plant EMT office was across the hall) to look at it.... they had me on a stretcher and headed to a hospitol 5 minutes later. 3 weeks of pain and drain followed...I was a really unhappy camper for the first couple days. The bite started ozzing yellow stuff while I was laying on the exam-table at St. E. Turns out that Black Widows aren't great for your heart, especially when you do a lot of binder ratcheting, cable tugging and tarp tugging, after getting bit.

    The doctor took one look at the area and started me on anti-venom for BW bite. He didn't wait for lab run to be finished.

    A side bar to the whole ordeal...they found some spiders that are brown in color, with an orange hour glass just like the Black Widow has..and it turns out to be twice as poisonous as the BW. They have found those suckers in FL, AL, MS, LA and TX Gulf Coast areas...probably came in by boat from South America.

    Lotta good Border Patrol does.

    Kill the spiders...kill em all I say!

    I use boric acid (powder version) to keep critters out of the house down here...works good too.
    Space...............Is disease and danger, wrapped in darkness and silence! Star Trek2009

  20. #20
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    Those other ones are brown widows or red widows. I think they're native to Australia (they call them redback spiders, I believe) and yeah, we have a few of them here in the states...pretty much the same range as the blacks that are native here.

    Sounds like when you got lanced, you had an infection/reaction go with it. My black widow bite was on the hand and it put me in the hospital for about 3 hours, hooked up to a heart monitor. But I didn't have any other reaction to it...just felt like I had been hit by a truck for about a week. The joint and muscle pain associated with a widow bite is excruciating.

    I had a friend a long time ago that was out moving boards in the barn with her husband. She picked up a board and thought she had punched her finger on a nail...it even bled like it. Flipped the board over and it was the biggest black widow she had ever seen. She said the body was about as big as a silver dollar.

    She took off toward the house (about 60 yards away) and made it 30 before she collapsed. She was in IC for about a week, in the hospital for over 2 weeks and very nearly died. She said it took about 3 months before she was finally free of the after-affects.

    Scary stuff.

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