Cailfornia Overtime

[Part Time Dweller]

I think that everyone should be paid based upon their productivity. Some would prosper while others faltered. We would see right away who was working and doing their job. If everyone was paid percentage then the problem of whether to pay overtime would not even need to be addressed. The more productive you become the greater your income. I think that that is the fairest way to pay people.

That system seems to work well for migrant workers, doesn't it? Paid by the piece and free room and board. Sounds similar to OTR trucking.

What your system doesn't take into account GMAN, is down time that is out of the drivers control. How can it be fair to pay a driver by his/her production when all the time sitting waiting for dispatch, loading/unloading. repairs, traffic, etc is uncompensated?

[Snowman7]

I think that everyone should be paid based upon their productivity. Some would prosper while others faltered. We would see right away who was working and doing their job. If everyone was paid percentage then the problem of whether to pay overtime would not even need to be addressed. The more productive you become the greater your income. I think that that is the fairest way to pay people.

That system seems to work well for migrant workers, doesn't it? Paid by the piece and free room and board. Sounds similar to OTR trucking.

What your system doesn't take into account GMAN, is down time that is out of the drivers control. How can it be fair to pay a driver by his/her production when all the time sitting waiting for dispatch, loading/unloading. repairs, traffic, etc is uncompensated?

And the funny thing is when the driver's time is "flat rated" or "included in mileage pay" or "part of the job" or whatever you want to call it the abuses get worse and more common. When the driver is paid hourly for his time its amazing how fast they can take care of him and get him on his way. No one gives a :dung: when he stands around for free though.

[Part Time Dweller]

Snowman gets it.

Notice how the LTL carriers never wait for a dock? That is because they leave if they don't get a door. Either the customer gets the truck loaded/unloaded or the driver leaves. Why? because the driver sitting there costs the trucking company money. Meanwhile, the OTR driver sits in the lot for free, getting that productivity pay.

[Orangetxguy]

Something you all seem to be ignoring, is the simple fact that you have been discussing a topic, which is state government related.
Now...even the state of Kalifornia does not investigate anything, labor related, unless enough workers complain. Obviously, for Kalifornia to have posted new rules or regulations, regarding wages for a specific class of truck driver...somebody(s) filed a complaint(s) with the Kalifornia division of wages and labor......before those folks ever got off their keesters and investigated...there were enough complaints to cause it appear as a valid complaint.

[fuelman]

I would agree with you Orangetxguy, some drivers from other companies complained and got this ball rolling. Fuel companies are just like OTR companies, some are good to work for, some are not. My company is a small (33 trucks) family owned fuel carrier with fairly low turnover and competitive wages.

For you guys that are pro OT, go back and read TCT's post relating to his company paying OT verses a company with no OT. That is making 50k verses 65-70k. Like I said before OT means nothing if you don'nt get any and the majority of our drivers want it to stay the way it is and not take a 15k pay cut.

The way the Interstate Carrier Laws were explained to our owner was that it is the commodity you are carrying not the truck that is interstate.

Example--- Company A delivers a load of cell phones from New York to California. Company B picks up that load and delivers to 5 stores in California. Company B is an interstate carrier cause the commodity from point of origin to final destination crossed state lines.

What is your take on this??????
Does it matter that the original form oil, has been refined into gasoline????

Thanks for everyones input, interesting to read the different opinions and sorry this does'nt pertain to OTR drivers. Wish things would change someday for OTR drivers. I will do just about anything for a good employer except work for free!!!

PEACE OUT 8) 8)
FUELMAN

[Orangetxguy]

I would agree with you Orangetxguy, some drivers from other companies complained and got this ball rolling. Fuel companies are just like OTR companies, some are good to work for, some are not. My company is a small (33 trucks) family owned fuel carrier with fairly low turnover and competitive wages.

For you guys that are pro OT, go back and read TCT's post relating to his company paying OT verses a company with no OT. That is making 50k verses 65-70k. Like I said before OT means nothing if you don'nt get any and the majority of our drivers want it to stay the way it is and not take a 15k pay cut.

The way the Interstate Carrier Laws were explained to our owner was that it is the commodity you are carrying not the truck that is interstate.

Example--- Company A delivers a load of cell phones from New York to California. Company B picks up that load and delivers to 5 stores in California. Company B is an interstate carrier cause the commodity from point of origin to final destination crossed state lines.
What is your take on this??????
Does it matter that the original form oil, has been refined into gasoline????

Thanks for everyones input, interesting to read the different opinions and sorry this does'nt pertain to OTR drivers. Wish things would change someday for OTR drivers. I will do just about anything for a good employer except work for free!!!

PEACE OUT 8) 8)
FUELMAN

First....If company "B" picked the load of cell phones, at a warehouse which is outside of a free trade zone, which took reciept of the cell phones from your "A" carrier..then the load of cell phones is now an "Intrastate" shipment. The warehouse became the "shipper" when it loaded the cell phones onto carrier "B"'s trailer.

As to the discussion of the threads topic....Interstate drivers are deemed ineligible for overtime pay, on wages, not by the FMCSA or DOT regulations, but rather by EEOC and the Fair Labor and Standards Act (FLSA). In 1932 several major companies, (which included DuPont, Standard Oil, and Dow Chemical to name just a few) went to Congress and demanded that Truck Drivers be specifically denied overtime wages, when ever those drivers crossed state lines. In the 1930's and 1940's the largest section of "Interstate Shipments" occured in the eastern 1/3 of the US. Lots of state-lines for truck drivers to cross each and every day...there by denying them overtime wages.

[Snowman7]

Yeah one bad thing about forcing a company to pay overtime is that they might hire more drivers to keep OT down instead of letting guys get 60-70 hrs so be careful what you wish for. Some guys want the OT some want eight and skate. Some just want to make as much as they can with or without time and a half. Its tough to find a job that can give you everything you want.

[Part Time Dweller]

First....If company "B" picked the load of cell phones, at a warehouse which is outside of a free trade zone, which took reciept of the cell phones from your "A" carrier..then the load of cell phones is now an "Intrastate" shipment. The warehouse became the "shipper" when it loaded the cell phones onto carrier "B"'s trailer.

Better check again Orange, I believe it was in 95 that the Feds broadened the definition of interstate commerce to include the continuation of the movement within a state. Example; pick up a load in MN and take to a warehouse in IL for storage, then transfer the same product from the warehouse in IL to the final customer in IL. That is deemed a continuation of an interstate move, there for it is still covered by the interstate rules.

I remember when they did this, IL among other states fought the Feds on this and lost, as IL considered it an intrastate move which would fall under the jurisdiction of the Illinois Commerce Commission. By doing this, the Feds essentially took away much of the individual States Commerce Commission powers, and many companies didn't need authority for each state they hauled in any more.

[Evinrude]

Yeah one bad thing about forcing a company to pay overtime is that they might hire more drivers to keep OT down instead of letting guys get 60-70 hrs so be careful what you wish for. Some guys want the OT some want eight and skate. Some just want to make as much as they can with or without time and a half. Its tough to find a job that can give you everything you want.

Benefits can be costly so this company wants to work it employees 60 straight time hours a week rather than put a few more on payroll.

I sure the law abiding competition is furious.

[GMAN]

I think that everyone should be paid based upon their productivity. Some would prosper while others faltered. We would see right away who was working and doing their job. If everyone was paid percentage then the problem of whether to pay overtime would not even need to be addressed. The more productive you become the greater your income. I think that that is the fairest way to pay people.

That system seems to work well for migrant workers, doesn't it? Paid by the piece and free room and board. Sounds similar to OTR trucking.

What your system doesn't take into account GMAN, is down time that is out of the drivers control. How can it be fair to pay a driver by his/her production when all the time sitting waiting for dispatch, loading/unloading. repairs, traffic, etc is uncompensated?

That is one reason I prefer paying drivers percentage. The more productive the driver the greater his income. The more the company makes the more the driver makes. It boils down to what you take home. If you want to work by the hour, then a local job will probably work best. If you want to be paid on your productivity, then mileage or percentage and otr is the way to go. There isn't a way for companies to monitor over the road drivers and fairly pay them hourly. Most of us who have drivers will pay them if they break down for more than a day. If the driver takes care of his equipment and does a proper pre-trip, then breakdowns will be to a minimum. Perhaps if forklift operators were paid percentage or by the truck, rather than an hourly wage, they would do a better job of moving trucks through their facilities. There is no incentive for them to work more efficiently or faster since they make the same wage regardless. You pretty much make my point in lack of motivation for hourly workers to be productive.

[Part Time Dweller]

And you still don't get it GMAN. If a driver was in complete control of his work situation, then yes, production based pay would be the answer, but seeing as he isn't, it is a crap shoot. You can have the most productive worker in the world, but if the company makes him sit waiting for a load, then how much productive is he? How about when the company tells a driver on Friday that he is running tight on hours, so take a 34 and we will load you Mon am, when in reality the company just needs the Mon load covered and the production paid driver sits for free.

As far as hourly pay not being feasible for OTR, you are wrong. A combination of mileage and hourly would work fine. Watch how fast drivers start putting dock time on line 4 where it should be if they actually got paid for it. Unfortunately, owners, like yourself try to justify screwing their drivers out of hours that should be paid every week by brainwashing them that it is the miles that are important, you know, the big picture. On the other hand, most OTR drivers fall for the scam and work for substandard wages. Vicious cycle, isn't it?

As far as dock workers getting paid piecemeal, why would they want to lower themselves to OTR standards? Just because you see no problem with working 100, logging 70 and getting paid for 40, don't expect a mad rush of people jumping on board with you.

[Evinrude]

And you still don't get it GMAN. If a driver was in complete control of his work situation, then yes, production based pay would be the answer, but seeing as he isn't, it is a crap shoot. You can have the most productive worker in the world, but if the company makes him sit waiting for a load, then how much productive is he? How about when the company tells a driver on Friday that he is running tight on hours, so take a 34 and we will load you Mon am, when in reality the company just needs the Mon load covered and the production paid driver sits for free.

As far as hourly pay not being feasible for OTR, you are wrong. A combination of mileage and hourly would work fine. Watch how fast drivers start putting dock time on line 4 where it should be if they actually got paid for it. Unfortunately, owners, like yourself try to justify screwing their drivers out of hours that should be paid every week by brainwashing them that it is the miles that are important, you know, the big picture. On the other hand, most OTR drivers fall for the scam and work for substandard wages. Vicious cycle, isn't it?

As far as dock workers getting paid piecemeal, why would they want to lower themselves to OTR standards? Just because you see no problem with working 100, logging 70 and getting paid for 40, don't expect a mad rush of people jumping on board with you.

I agree, Life is short, my time is precious and If I am a company driver I should be paid. I hate line 4 ON DUTY NOT PAID.

If truckers ever got organised we would make BIG money. Can't send these jobs overseas. I don't want to here that we would hurt the economy if were paid for what we do.
Would it be great to get short and long term sick pay?, and a real pension for all the hours we put in? Or be able able to appeal, a termination.

[Kranky]

And you still don't get it GMAN. If a driver was in complete control of his work situation, then yes, production based pay would be the answer, but seeing as he isn't, it is a crap shoot. You can have the most productive worker in the world, but if the company makes him sit waiting for a load, then how much productive is he? How about when the company tells a driver on Friday that he is running tight on hours, so take a 34 and we will load you Mon am, when in reality the company just needs the Mon load covered and the production paid driver sits for free.

As far as hourly pay not being feasible for OTR, you are wrong. A combination of mileage and hourly would work fine. Watch how fast drivers start putting dock time on line 4 where it should be if they actually got paid for it. Unfortunately, owners, like yourself try to justify screwing their drivers out of hours that should be paid every week by brainwashing them that it is the miles that are important, you know, the big picture. On the other hand, most OTR drivers fall for the scam and work for substandard wages. Vicious cycle, isn't it?

As far as dock workers getting paid piecemeal, why would they want to lower themselves to OTR standards? Just because you see no problem with working 100, logging 70 and getting paid for 40, don't expect a mad rush of people jumping on board with you.

I agree, Life is short, my time is precious and If I am a company driver I should be paid. I hate line 4 ON DUTY NOT PAID.

If truckers ever got organised we would make BIG money.

They have. It's called the International Brotherhood Of Teamsters. I'm a member, are you?

Can't send these jobs overseas. I don't want to here that we would hurt the economy if were paid for what we do.
Would it be great to get short and long term sick pay?, and a real pension for all the hours we put in? Or be able able to appeal, a termination.

All of those benefits are available to Teamsters.

[Part Time Dweller]

That is a bad word around here Splitshifter. :P Most have been brainwashed that miles are more important than money. They don't need no stinking union, just ask GMAN, they get productivity pay, the harder you work the more you make. On top of that, they get free showers and room and board. Lets see the Teamsters top that

[Mackman]

That is a bad word around here Splitshifter. :P Most have been brainwashed that miles are more important than money. They don't need no stinking union, just ask GMAN, they get productivity pay, the harder you work the more you make. On top of that, they get free showers and room and board. Lets see the Teamsters top that

I woulkd rather get paid CPM thats where the money is at. LOL

[mdgardner963]

I work 5 days one week take home 986.36 for 60 hours then 4 days and bring home 869.36. If your wondering i make good money and yes not great 15.25 an hour for 8 then 21.37 4 hours. In Jersy all fuel tank drivers make 30+ an hour i hear and 1.5 times after 8.. :x