Limited Liabilty Company information?????

[ben45750]

I thought I had read a couple post's about Incorporating a small trucking business? My question has nothing to do with trucking but if you file for a LLC are you issued a Corporation number?

[GMAN]

I am not sure what you mean by a corporate number unless you are talking about a FEIN. All businesses can get a FEIN from the IRS. It is like a social security number or a company. You can have one for a sole proprietorship, partnership, corporation, LLC, or LLP. Your state should issue you a state number, but it should be similar to that issued by the IRS.

[ben45750]

I am not sure what you mean by a corporate number unless you are talking about a FEIN. All businesses can get a FEIN from the IRS. It is like a social security number or a company. You can have one for a sole proprietorship, partnership, corporation, LLC, or LLP. Your state should issue you a state number, but it should be similar to that issued by the IRS.

I didn't word that very well.

I should have asked. Does the LLC need to be created before you file for a FEIN? The reason I asked, On the FEIN form it asks if the FEIN will be for a LLC business. Also, if you have employees you do have to file for another FEIN?

Just wondering which needs to be done first. LLC or FEIN?

[Useless]

There are certain tax advantages to operating as an LLC, providing that it is structured properly. Because one purpose of an LLC is to protect the members from certain iabilities incurred by the LLC,, and to limit the liability exposure of the LLC itself, obtaining financing for an LLC is sometimes difficult.

You would be well advised to seek the counsel of a CPA and an attorney.

[ben45750]

You would be well advised to seek the counsel of a CPA and an attorney.

Yeah I agree it would be better to have a lawyer do it. But on the other hand it's alot cheaper to do it yourself. From what I have seen it can cost up to $1500 for an attorney to do it and $150 filing cost to do it yourself.

[Useless]

You would be well advised to seek the counsel of a CPA and an attorney.

Yeah I agree it would be better to have a lawyer do it. But on the other hand it's alot cheaper to do it yourself. From what I have seen it can cost up to $1500 for an attorney to do it and $150 filing cost to do it yourself.

Establishing an LLC yourself, bypassing an attorney, and using the kits sold over the internet may appear to be "cheaper", but it can be (and all too often is!!) extremely costly in the end. It is also extremely risky, and an open invitation to trouble. An attorney can best help the members of an LLC to structure the LLC in such a way that the "Puncture Proof Vail" that an LLC can offer is properly established and remains fully effective and as impenetrable as possible.

While LLC's may, and often do offer many advantages, they are not the panacea that the internet hawkers would have you believe. They can be very complex, and in business where liability risks are relatively high, such as a trucking company or a real estate venture, they NEED to be complex in certain areas in order to protect the LLC's members from the potential liabilities of the LLC or it's assets, to protect the LLC from the potential liabilities of it's members, and to protect the LLC's members from the potential liability of other members of the LLC.

The worst thing you can do is buy into the notion that there is such a thing as a "one size fits all" approach to properly establishing and successfully operating an LLC; the needs of the LLC, it's members, and the laws in different states are just too different.

Time and again, I've seen instances where entrepreneurs and small business operators have tried to establish LLC's while bypassing an attorney, often relying on kits sold over the internet, believing they were protected from liabilities, only to discover later (and after they painfully learn) that they were not; In those instances, it is often too late to be able to rectify the damage!

Let me re-emphasize that part of the purpose of an LLC is to protect the LLC members from the liabilities of the LLC, to protect the LLC from the liabilities of the members, and to protect the members of the LLC from the liabilities of other LLC members. Without the counsel of an attorney who practices in business law, there are many problems and risks which can arise after it is too late to rectify them.

I highly recommend retaining an attorney for the purpose of ensuring the protections that an LLC affords, but retaining the services of a CPA is also important in terms of the establishing the financial structure of the LLC in order to ensure the maximum tax benefits, and develping a financial strategy which will best serve the needs of the LLC, it's members, maximize tax advantages, and augment the financial viability of your venture.

Seriously, Ben, I know that you don't want to cough up the dinero for an attorney, and that's understandable. But speaking as someone who operates several different LLC's, and as one who deals with the potential liability exposures that LLC's are designed to protect against, this really is one area where you can't afford not to retain competent legal counsel.

BOL2U!!

[ben45750]

Thank you Useless for the advice. You make a pretty convincing case and it does sound like having an Attorney do the LLC is the way to go.

Sending you a PM.

[GMAN]

I am not sure what you mean by a corporate number unless you are talking about a FEIN. All businesses can get a FEIN from the IRS. It is like a social security number or a company. You can have one for a sole proprietorship, partnership, corporation, LLC, or LLP. Your state should issue you a state number, but it should be similar to that issued by the IRS.

I didn't word that very well.

I should have asked. Does the LLC need to be created before you file for a FEIN? The reason I asked, On the FEIN form it asks if the FEIN will be for a LLC business. Also, if you have employees you do have to file for another FEIN?

Just wondering which needs to be done first. LLC or FEIN?

I would file for the LLC first. The reason is that you want to make sure that the name is available. You can walk into your local IRS office and get a FEIN in a matter of minutes.

As far as setting up a LLC yourself is concerned. All an attorney does is fill in the blanks. There aren't a lot of differences between a LLC and corporation. Both are designed to do the same thing. The last time I paid a lawyer to set up a corporation for me was in 1971. He sent me into his library with a paralegal, we picked out the phrases we wanted and filled in the blanks. His fee was $1,100. I have owned several corporations since and set all of them up myself. Your state will have forms that you simply fill in the blanks. Where the liability comes in is the intermingling of personal and company assets. If you use company funds to pay for personal items or sign business documents without also including your title, then you could be considered as having assumed personal liability. Most states have forms that the lawyers use. Some of the lawyers type in the same information on a blank document, but the wording is usually the same. All they do is copy the wording from the state document. I will never pay a lawyer to set up a corporation for me again. It is a waste of money, as far as I am concerned. If you can read and follow directions, then you can do the same thing a lawyer can do in setting one of these up. It might help you to talk with a lawyer or accountant to see what type of structure you many need, but actually setting one up is very simple.