Swapping unborn children to save the planet...

[Drew10]

I read this in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, yesterday. Searched for it on the Web the author actually wirites for the Orlando Sentinal...



Quote:
Toni Vernelli was one of two women recently featured in a London Daily Mail story about environmentalists who take their carbon footprint very, very seriously. So seriously, in fact, that Vernelli aborted a pregnancy and, by age 27, had herself sterilized. Baby-making, she says, is "selfish" and "all about maintaining your genetic line at the expense of the planet."



Full editorial....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...2337771.column

[golfhobo]

I read this in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, yesterday. Searched for it on the Web the author actually wirites for the Orlando Sentinal...



Quote:
Toni Vernelli was one of two women recently featured in a London Daily Mail story about environmentalists who take their carbon footprint very, very seriously. So seriously, in fact, that Vernelli aborted a pregnancy and, by age 27, had herself sterilized. Baby-making, she says, is "selfish" and "all about maintaining your genetic line at the expense of the planet."



Full editorial....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...2337771.column

Drew:

I'm not sure just what you're fishing for..... but I'll bite!

First..... anyone wanting to read this inflamatory editorial by a pro-lifer, will need this new link:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/servi...2634106.column

..... as it has been archived.

Now, what is wrong with trying to curtail the population explosion that threatens the future FOR OUR KIDS??? Between Catholicism and total ignorance of what causes births (mostly found in African nations,) our planet IS becoming overpopulated, and our resources strained.

I wouldn't want this country, or any in the World, to ever have to DENY a couple the right to childbirth. But, those SELFISH parents who insist on having what amounts to LITTERS of babies, (MANY of whom can't AFFORD them,) are robbing us ALL of a healthy and financially plausible future.

NO family, in today's environment, needs MORE than two children. That's ONE for each parent (assuming they stay together) to HOLD, while text messaging with their free hand!

Restaurant booths/tables are built for FOUR people! Most vehicles have seats for FOUR (and a hump.) Why do you think someone invented the phrase "the fifth wheel?"

In one way or another, I'd bet somewhere around 30% of the GWP (that's Gross World Product) goes to supporting families who have more children than they can support!

I once entertained a theory that, a couple gets married and should have no more than 2 children. If they get divorced.... the Man can sire two more children by another woman (if they are HER first and only.) A man who marries a woman who already HAS 2 children, does not NEED to give her more, but can give her ONE, if that is a bonding issue. A woman who marries a man who has 2 children by a former wife, can give him TWO! It's not a "perfect" theory..... but can you see the rationale? (There's MORE to it, and by my own theory, I should be allowed only ONE more child!)

I certainly BELIEVE in the need for family planning! I don't want to deny ANYONE the right of childbirth.... but, I don't believe in allowing children to just come along as often as sperm dictates, with no control. We are long since past the days when children were needed to "work the farm." [OR a time when we didn't KNOW what caused childbirth!] It is a new age, with new problems, and overpopulation of this planet, and the accompanying strains on our resources IS a fact!

I won't get into the moral issue of abortion on THIS thread, unless provoked..... but birth control, and even sterilization, are not the SINS of the Devil..... and I can find nowhere in the Bible that says EXCESSIVE "procreation" is the RIGHT or DUTY of any of God's children.

There are litterally MILLIONS of children on the planet today, who don't have a home or family to love them! You can GUESS how I feel about HOW they got here. But, they are here, nonetheless. And without families to love and guide them, they are (whether a pleasant thought or not,) far too often a contributing factor in the decline of civilization. Many succumb to the criminal element, others become fodder FOR it.

I don't wish to deny anyone the experience of childbirth. But, there's a difference between ONE piece of candy, and a BAG FULL!

Although I would NEVER equate a long airplane flight per year, with the abstinance of having a child, and somehow call it a "neutral carbon footprint," I APPLAUD those who have denied themselves children for the betterment of all mankind.

Voluntary sterilization or vasectomy, is a PERSONAL decision that requires much more VALOR than many give those who decide on it credit for. (And I might even include abortion.)

And before SOME decide to "take me on" and start spouting quips from the Bible.... let me beat you to it! God said to MAN, "Cast not your seed upon the ground." (You all KNOW what that means!) Yet, I can't find ONE word in the Bible against abortion! Perhaps, the Lord wanted to control the MAN'S wanton desires, so that he wouldn't have to control the Woman's acts as a result!

Drew: If your intent was to spark an intellectual conversation of this, and others will curtail their "righteous indignation," I'm GAME! If however, you just wanted to echo the stupid comments of the editorialist in the article you linked.... I'm sorry I wasted your time! (and vice versa.)

Hobo

[Twilight Flyer]

Wow...

This was perhaps one of the most inflammatory posts I think I've ever seen! Buckle up, cupcake! You're about to go for a ride! :x

I wouldn't want this country, or any in the World, to ever have to DENY a couple the right to childbirth. But, those SELFISH parents who insist on having what amounts to LITTERS of babies, (MANY of whom can't AFFORD them,) are robbing us ALL of a healthy and financially plausible future.

We have 7. My wife and I each have 3 from a previous marriage and we have 1 together. Our kids are 14/14/12/12/10/10 and 5. It is quite literally the Brady Bunch PLUS 1. Who the hell are you to consider that SELFISH?!? :x If I can afford them (and I can), then I don't give a good gol DAMN about your healthy and plausible future!

Quite honestly, that has to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on a messageboard! Holy sheet!! :shock:

NO family, in today's environment, needs MORE than two children. That's ONE for each parent (assuming they stay together) to HOLD, while text messaging with their free hand!

Are you nucking futs? This ain't China and when the government tries legislating how many children a family has in this country, will be the day the revolution starts. Guaranteed.

Restaurant booths/tables are built for FOUR people! Most vehicles have seats for FOUR (and a hump.) Why do you think someone invented the phrase "the fifth wheel?"

Let me ask. Were you drunk when you posted this? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Bottom line is this. I will agree with you when talking about professional welfare scammers. In cases like that, I can see the argument of restricting childbirth or even sterilization, having merit.

But when you lump EVERYBODY into that stupid delusion, you're picking fights you have no chance of winning and that would likely get you decked in a face-to-face. Who are you to legislate my family?!?! Are you kidding me?!?!

Some couples don't want children; others want 1 or 2; still others like more. And through it all, it should be their decision, if we're not talking about a professional welfare king or queen!

In my family, my wife and I have enough love, enough resources, and enough patience to raise a large family and it's OUR choice. We didn't consult you or anyone else and I'm pretty sure that if we decide to adopt after a couple of ours move on to college, we won't be asking your advice then, either. :x

Sure, it's tough at times. Sure, we have to budget and we don't needlessly throw money away for unneeded junk. But they're ours, we pay for them, they're loved, and they're all unique. Life without any one of those seven would definitely have an empty spot in it. And just because you can't handle children, doesn't mean that the rest of us are similarly handicapped.

[Roadhog]

I feel our Children are our greatest Blessing.
They are the only innocent ones we have to remember through and learn from. As adults, we loose perspective of so many things that really matter.
Our youth keep us in balance, as well as bless our lives in so many ways.

I don't have children, and always wanted my own. But, regardless, I still can appreciate the love and blessing children offer. I could adopt, but then I kept fooling around hoping I was going to find a wife and have my own for so long, I finally reached my late forties, and I gave up on the dream. You see... some things in life...you can not bless yourself with.

Even our Welfare children are a Blessing to us. I know there are those who "use them" to gain a free ride...but I know many ways we fund aid in this Country, far less worthy. Who knows which baby will grow up one day to become a Hero?

It takes a Community to raise a child, not just a Mom and Dad.

The focus is on sterilization.
That is just another choice one can make. I think it's nutty, but then each to their own. I do not agree with it...because of my religious beliefs.
I do feel... we will one day inherit the Universe, and we will wish then, we had GodZillions of more babies! 8)

[golfhobo]

Wow...

This was perhaps one of the most inflammatory posts I think I've ever seen! Buckle up, cupcake! You're about to go for a ride! :x

You've said that about MANY of my posts, T/F! Just keeping you on your toes! :wink:

I wouldn't want this country, or any in the World, to ever have to DENY a couple the right to childbirth. But, those SELFISH parents who insist on having what amounts to LITTERS of babies, (MANY of whom can't AFFORD them,) are robbing us ALL of a healthy and financially plausible future.

We have 7. My wife and I each have 3 from a previous marriage and we have 1 together. Our kids are 14/14/12/12/10/10 and 5. It is quite literally the Brady Bunch PLUS 1. Who the hell are you to consider that SELFISH?!? :x

Re-read my "theory," and remember I said it was not "perfect." Each of you's previous marriages had only ONE MORE than I said was practical. Not a major crime. I even allowed for the one for bonding. Your Brady Bunch does not necessarily contradict what I was advocating.

However, for the record.... your overall "opinion" on this matter is right out of the dictionary for the word "selfish." Apparently, you feel 'having the money' equates to some kind of moral authority. I disagree.

If I can afford them (and I can), then I don't give a good gol DAMN about your healthy and plausible future!

Thanks for proving my point! And remember.... YOUR children and THEIR children will suffer the problems of overpopulation right along with MINE.

Quite honestly, that has to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on a messageboard! Holy sheet!! :shock:

You're entitled to your opinion. I won't even BAN you for it!

NO family, in today's environment, needs MORE than two children. That's ONE for each parent (assuming they stay together) to HOLD, while text messaging with their free hand!

Are you nucking futs? This ain't China and when the government tries legislating how many children a family has in this country, will be the day the revolution starts. Guaranteed.

I thought it was gonna start on the day they tried to take your Uzi away! :?

Restaurant booths/tables are built for FOUR people! Most vehicles have seats for FOUR (and a hump.) Why do you think someone invented the phrase "the fifth wheel?"

Let me ask. Were you drunk when you posted this? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Naw.... but I WAS a middle child of three, and it's a known fact that "we" suffer mental anxieties over it! :wink: Besides.... I spent alot of time "riding the hump!"

Bottom line is this. I will agree with you when talking about professional welfare scammers. In cases like that, I can see the argument of restricting childbirth or even sterilization, having merit.

But when you lump EVERYBODY into that stupid delusion, you're picking fights you have no chance of winning and that would likely get you decked in a face-to-face. Who are you to legislate my family?!?! Are you kidding me?!?!

Unfortunately, when talking about WORLD problems, it is quite necessary to ask ALL to participate in the solution. And I HAVE discussed this situation and theoretical solution with MANY "civilized" people face to face... and none of THEM had the urge to resort to VIOLENCE over it. You must have been OTR that day! :wink:

Some couples don't want children; others want 1 or 2; still others like more. And through it all, it should be their decision, if we're not talking about a professional welfare king or queen!

In my family, my wife and I have enough love, enough resources, and enough patience to raise a large family and it's OUR choice. We didn't consult you or anyone else and I'm pretty sure that if we decide to adopt after a couple of ours move on to college, we won't be asking your advice then, either. :x

So.... it's ALL about YOU, YOU, YOU?

Sure, it's tough at times. Sure, we have to budget and we don't needlessly throw money away for unneeded junk. But they're ours, we pay for them, they're loved, and they're all unique.

Life without any one of those seven would definitely have an empty spot in it.

Oh come on, now. You're not THAT silly, are you? What are you saying about the REST of your children and spouse when you say that your life would be "empty" if ONE chld had never been born? You can't MISS what you don't KNOW.

[I'll refrain from calling THAT a dumb statement.]

And just because you can't handle children, doesn't mean that the rest of us are similarly handicapped.

It has nothing to do with ME or whether I can "handle" children or not. It has to do with urban sprawl, dwindling oil, water shortages, etc. It has to do with EXPONENTIAL growth of populations on the planet. We talk about Baby Boomers and their impact on society.... but does anyone ever think about, or calculate, what our population would be today if thousands of men hadn't been killed in all of our wars (before they could have 6 or 7 kids each?)

I TRIED to participate in a RATIONAL discussion on the issue. But, as I expected, some just can't curtail their righteous indignation. No problem. I enjoyed your post, Twilight!

[golfhobo]

RH wrote:

I do feel... we will one day inherit the Universe, and we will wish then, we had GodZillions of more babies!

I'm not arguing with anything you said, Hoggie. You have a right to your nonabusive opinion.

But, what do you mean about inheriting the Universe? I thought we already HAD it. Our country is spending BILLIONS today on the HOPES that we might someday be able to live on other planets..... WHY??

Because everyone can see that THIS one is getting crowded! But, I don't believe it is practical to even consider that we can someday just "bus" thousands or millions of people to another planet to live. Besides.... the phone bills would be "astronomical!"

And just TRY keeping your "nights and weekends" plan current! "Hello... Son? How's college?" "Dad.... I've been RETIRED for 20 years now!"

[Twilight Flyer]

There's no "rational indignation" involved in my post. You questioned MY beliefs. You called ME selfish. You told me that YOUR future was MY responsibility.

So no, it's not "rational indignation". It's plain, pissed off anger in the realm of "how dare you?" And I still don't give a damn about your future.

It has to do with urban sprawl, dwindling oil, water shortages, etc. It has to do with EXPONENTIAL growth of populations on the planet

While you're at it, why don't you lump doctors and the medical profession in there. I mean, how much do they add to the problem by coming up with cures for disease, better organ replacement, other ways to extend your life from the age of 90 to 120. And for what? Maybe we should just execute the people of the medical profession and get our life expectancy down to 40 again.

And while we're at it, we'll execute anyone over 66. 1 year of relaxation after retirement is all that anyone needs, right?

Welfare? Pffft! Execute them all! What a drag on our resources! You say that hard-working father lost his long-time job to an illegal? No excuse! We can't handle him being on even a week of welfare as he gets back on his feet! He's a drag on our society and our world resources! To the firing line!

Wait a sec! He lost it to an illegal! Gee, let's execute all of them, too, so this never happens again! And while we're at it, let's just nuke their whole country. That'll solve that problem and free up a lot of real estate and parking, too!

Ya know, your post is so rife with absolutely ridiculous assertations that I'm simply not going to dignify it with any additional specific point-by-point replies other than this.

I like my large family and won't lose any sleep over your feelings on the matter. Families are a choice. Granted, that choice should be based on being fiscally capable of supporting a large family, but in the end, having children is a choice. Whether the person wants 1, 2, or 10, who cares? What business is it of yours and where do you get the unmitigated gall to call someone with a large family, selfish?!? If you want exclusive access to land and resources, go find yourself a deserted island somewhere and erect a few no trespassing signs. We'll be certain not to overindulge ourselves and cut into your dwindling resources.

It's one thing to have a discussion about things like sterilization or overpopulation or family limits and for the record, I've had those very same discussions with people that didn't see fit to start the conversation with "you're selfish." It's quite another to come and and lay the the wood with insults, saying anyone that didn't believe your way is selfish. Maybe in the end, you should re-evaluate your presentation. If you don't believe me, take your current rhetoric to the mall and look for any large family (or family that doesn't meet your guidelines ) and call the parents, to their face, selfish for having their children. Any father that loves his family would probably drop you in your shoes...any mother would probably slap the color from your cheek, that's if they didn't immediately call the police on you for harrassment. I don't advocate violence at all, but your comments are enough to incite anyone to making a forceful stand into what most parents would deem hate speech.

[Roadhog]

I don't care to get into discussions on my religious beliefs, other than brief outlines. It is my personal beliefs, and not up for debate. Or, more accurately, there is a time and place for it.

But, in general I can say, I believe this inheritance is still in the future, and we will not receive it as mortal beings. It is extremely involved, and as you are well aware...religious discussions can go on for volumes of pages and nothing be understood or agreed on. It's best to keep some parts of your life personal. Religion and politics are two very good examples of that.

I think it is good for all of us to have a thumbnail view of each others beliefs, be it religious or political, so we can function as a Society. You know enough about Christianity...so I don't need to even touch on the subject. How you personally wish to break the knowledge down is up to you.

This idea of populating other Planets and spending Billions in research is folly and corrupt. Man's self-righteousness and arrogance is not new. Man will seek to believe he can be God...hmmmmm I wonder where THAT influence comes from! :evil:

We over-populate because of our greedy commercialization. We have vast expanses that could house families. We spend billions in insane ways. We could live on penny's to heat or cool our homes, and penny's to transport...but it is not Commercially viable. Our corrupt system of life requires us to make the rich richer, and the poor poorer...and slaughter millions over greed of a few...or ignorant hatred of religious or political fanatics.

Thing is...(religious opinion)...mankind is influenced both good and bad. We are subject to destiny, because our choices are extremely predictable.
There is a better life than this, but not in this World at this time. What you see around you...is a sign of the times.

Wasn't this about...sterilization?...

[Twilight Flyer]

I agree with that Hog. I kept my religious beliefs out of the discussion, too. I took the insults on the humanity side. :? My family is my life...I protect it, boisterously if necessary.

But as far as sterilization goes and the article, I don't agree with the woman in question, but I will be the first to say that it is her choice. If that's what she believes, then who am I to question it? I certainly wouldn't stoop to lobbing insults at her, even if I believe she is wrong in her belief. It is not illegal and has no repercussions on anyone but herself. If she wants to do it, then more power to her.

[Jackrabbit379]

Ya know, I'm not exactly the sharpest pencil in the drawer, but it doesnt make sense to me. I read the article. Sounds like someone wanted their name in the paper. It's dumb, if ya ask me. Selfish? What do they mean by, saving the world? Like I said, I usually have a few bricks shy of a load, but it just sounds silly to me. How dumb people are.

I am 33 years old, and this Sunday, my wife, and I will celebrate our first year of marriage. We just found out, about a month ago, we are expecting. So, for all those yahoos that think that I am selfish, and I am ruining the world, go jump off an airplane. :P

Vasectomy? Is that what I think it is? :shock: Dag gum! This dude must not have anything to live for! No pride? I would have to tell my wife that she better go get a (whatever it's called for her), to keep from having kids. Aint happnin! I understand if a couple has a couple of kids, and they are happy with that, and then if needed, have the surgery done, but while they are engaged? :shock: Why marry? :|

[gordoUSA]

Mother Nature used to have a way of eliminating excess populations through disease and/or plagues. But with the incredible advances in medicine, Mother Nature is having trouble controlling us it seems. (Maybe Darwinism needs to be re-thought.) Unless of course she is planning a really “big surprise” for us.

Now there’s a happy holiday thought.

[Trukrswyfe]

Hey Golf ,

Anyway I just want to say your response did not anger me but saddens me. Look around we are fullfilling prophesy, when we begin to see the blessings of God as burdens, calling evil good and good evil. Even so come Lord Jesus!

As I was once the middle child I guess I used to have thoughts like that also but my mom continued to have more kids(five in total). We were so poor growing up I will spare you the details, Probably why I was out of the house at sixteen and already had my first son. To some my son could have look as a burden or even a mistake, but to me a wild crazy alcoholic by the age of 14, he was a blessing. I really didn't want more than two but was surprised by the third. Each one of my children are so unique and special, but everyone that meets my youngest falls in Love with him( he is just such a light) Oh yeah back to my point my sisters are all grown up and though we don't all get along I couldn't imagine not having one of them and I couldn't imagine my family without my youngest.

The point is Value life not just the life of the planet but human life distinctly made in the image of the Creator. If the Lord and His Word call children blessing then who am I to disagree. But if you see them as burdens and like wise others do, truthfully I am not surprised and the Lord delcared that that view was going to become popular in the end. As a believer I welcome that.

Not sure if you have children, I think I remember reading that you do, but your heart doesn't know and I mean KNOW the depths of true love until you do. It is like a whole new level that didn't exist before. Does everyone feel this love when they have kids, No as I know many that have children and continue in self destructive, selfishness, as they did prior to children. The truth about children is they are the true commodity that every nation needs to survive, they work when we no longer can, the are more valuable then gas, food, and land, Without them we fail and die out.

[golfhobo]

There's no "rational indignation" involved in my post. [BINGO!] You questioned MY beliefs. You called ME selfish. You told me that YOUR future was MY responsibility.

NO I didn't. NO I didn't. And YES, I DID!

Now, it has become BLINDING indignation, as you have substituted the word "rational" for "righteous." The definition of Righteous Indignation is:

"An emotion one feels when one becomes angry over perceived mistreatment, insult, or malice."

I didn't direct ANY of my comments or opinions towards YOU, T/F!! I SAID I hoped no one would do exactly as YOU did. And I was more than surprised that it WAS, in fact, YOU. I know we don't always see eye to eye on many things, but I THOUGHT you were more levelheaded.

So no, it's not "rational indignation". It's plain, pissed off anger in the realm of "how dare you?" And I still don't give a damn about your future.

Nor anyone else's, apparently. Conversely.... I DO care about YOUR future, and that of your offspring. Which is WHY I involve myself in discussions of HOW to avoid overpopulating the planet.

It has to do with urban sprawl, dwindling oil, water shortages, etc. It has to do with EXPONENTIAL growth of populations on the planet

While you're at it, why don't you lump doctors and the medical profession in there. I mean, how much do they add to the problem by coming up with cures for disease, better organ replacement, other ways to extend your life from the age of 90 to 120. And for what? Maybe we should just execute the people of the medical profession and get our life expectancy down to 40 again.

Obviously, I don't subscribe to your VIOLENT proposals, but I DO often consider that perhaps we shouldn't BE playing GOD with extending our lifespans. Certainly, I don't see much wrong with curing illnesses, but we ARE on the verge of "cloning" ourselves so that we can enjoy perpetual life.... are we not? Is this not narcissistic and selfish?

And while we're at it, we'll execute anyone over 66. 1 year of relaxation after retirement is all that anyone needs, right?

How did we get from birth control / family planning to EXECUTIONS?? Oh yeah..... righteous indignation!

Welfare? Pffft! Execute them all! What a drag on our resources! You say that hard-working father lost his long-time job to an illegal? No excuse! We can't handle him being on even a week of welfare as he gets back on his feet! He's a drag on our society and our world resources! To the firing line!

ERRUPP, TOOP, THREEP, FOURP!! :wink:

Wait a sec! He lost it to an illegal! Gee, let's execute all of them, too, so this never happens again! And while we're at it, let's just nuke their whole country. That'll solve that problem and free up a lot of real estate and parking, too!

Shhhh!! Dubya may be "listening!"

Ya know, your post is so rife with absolutely ridiculous assertations that I'm simply not going to dignify it with any additional specific point-by-point replies other than this.

"RIFE?" Name ONE, other than the use of the word "selfish."

I like my large family and won't lose any sleep over your feelings on the matter. Families are a choice. Granted, that choice should be based on being fiscally capable of supporting a large family, but in the end, having children is a choice. Whether the person wants 1, 2, or 10, who cares?

Ask your decendant in the year 2108, when he is suffocating from overpopulation, and freezing from lack of oil to heat his home, and is OVERtaxed to pay for the BILLIONS of unwanted children in Africa and Central America.

What business is it of yours and where do you get the unmitigated gall to call someone with a large family, selfish?!?

Gee, I don't know..... Citizen of Earth? And let's call it a Divine right of Free Speech!

If you want exclusive access to land and resources, go find yourself a deserted island somewhere and erect a few no trespassing signs. We'll be certain not to overindulge ourselves and cut into your dwindling resources.

That's almost funny. Did you see the Larry King interview with Billionaire Branson?? HE was going to do just that! But, he found out that, conversely, HE would be using up resources that OTHERS needed.... so he SACRIFICED his "dream" for the betterment of mankind! Thank GOD for "enlightened" Progressives!

It's one thing to have a discussion about things like sterilization or overpopulation or family limits and for the record, I've had those very same discussions with people that didn't see fit to start the conversation with "you're selfish." It's quite another to come and and lay the the wood with insults, saying anyone that didn't believe your way is selfish.

I repeat the word "perceived" from the definiton above.

Maybe in the end, you should re-evaluate your presentation.

Or you might do the same concerning your response?

If you don't believe me, take your current rhetoric to the mall and look for any large family (or family that doesn't meet your guidelines ) and call the parents, to their face, selfish for having their children.

Now... HOW did we get from making a comment/opinion on a messageboard to stalking people in a mall? Should I pick on a rich WHITE family?? Or some of those welfare scammers you refer to?

Any father that loves his family would probably drop you in your shoes...any mother would probably slap the color from your cheek, that's if they didn't immediately call the police on you for harrassment. I don't advocate violence at all, but your comments are enough to incite anyone to making a forceful stand into what most parents would deem hate speech.

Harrassment?? Hate speech?? Not hardly! I guess you forgot that the Constitution that you think only applies to YOU, also protects my right to have an OPINION even if, as you say, it doesn't conform to YOUR way of thinking. :wink:

Look, Twilight.... I'm not looking for a fight with you.... and I certainly don't like the "oppressive" feeling that I might get BANNED for it..... but, you wanted to "take me for a ride" so I decided to do some of the DRIVING!

I'm sorry if you didn't like my choice of words. But, let's look at the definition:

Selfish: Having such regards for one's OWN interests and advantage that the welfare of others becomes of less concern than is considered just.

In one way or another, overpopulation is EVERYONE's concern AND responsibility. For the record, I COULD have been politically incorrect, and blamed it ALL on welfare families and ignorant African fornicators.... (and apparently would have gotten your blessings,) but, I didn't! I believe we ALL have some responsibility in this. Apparently, you feel that you are "exempt."

"NO MAN is an island!" Are you familiar with "the butterfly effect?"

[Rev.Vassago]

but I DO often consider that perhaps we shouldn't BE playing GOD with extending our lifespans.

You're right. Hopefully you'll do the right thing, and practice what you preach. Been nice knowing you.

[Roadhog]

Rev...how you can say so little
with soooo few words..always amazes me!

[golfhobo]

but I DO often consider that perhaps we shouldn't BE playing GOD with extending our lifespans.

You're right. Hopefully you'll do the right thing, and practice what you preach. Been nice knowing you.

YOU FIRST!! And thanks.... I feel the same way about you!

To be honest, I fully expect to die of a terminal disease that MAY be treatable for some period of time. I don't plan on getting those treatments. I'll send you an invite to the funeral.

As of now, I have left on this Earth only ONE child, and SHE cannot carry on the family name. It dies when I die. Are you happy?

It WOULD be nice to know, though, that I have grandchildren. I'm SURE I do (as she is Catholic and probably married by now.) But, those blessings are not for one such as me.

I KNOW my place and purpose in life. I don't need YOU to inform me of it. On the other hand.... I wish for YOU only the Best, Rev! You seem ill-equipped to handle anything BUT!

You can put me back on "iggy"now!

[Rev.Vassago]

YOU FIRST!!

No thanks. I don't hold the same whacked out views that you do. Nor am I telling someone that their children shouldn't really matter to them.

I'll send you an invite to the funeral.

I'm busy that day.

As of now, I have left on this Earth only ONE child, and SHE cannot carry on the family name. It dies when I die. Are you happy?

Doesn't give you the right to attack others who have the fortune of having and caring for their families.

It WOULD be nice to know, though, that I have grandchildren.

Wouldn't your beliefs on overpopulation dictate that you wouldn't want to have grandchildren?

I KNOW my place and purpose in life. I don't need YOU to inform me of it.

I wasn't aware that I did.

On the other hand.... I wish for YOU only the Best, Rev! You seem ill-equipped to handle anything BUT!

If you only knew.

You can put me back on "iggy"now!

Tell consider I said hi.

[Twilight Flyer]

Look, Twilight.... I'm not looking for a fight with you....

Call a parent selfish for having children and you'll get a fight every time.

and I certainly don't like the "oppressive" feeling that I might get BANNED for it.....

I've never banned anyone for an opinion, even if that opinion is stupid and insensitive. I never said you weren't entitled to your opinion, either. I said you should re-evaluate your presentation of said opinion. You haven't gotten vulgar, posted inappropriate pictures or links, or done anything that would get you banned. You just acted like a complete...well, I better not say it or I'd have to ban myself. I may be a moderator, but I do play fair.

And I still don't give a damn about your future.

Bottom line, I heard all the same arguments 25 years ago, how the world was overpopulated, we would run ourselves out of resources in 20 short years, yada yada YAWN!. It's the same alarmist BS that has been played out for quite some time, before you and I were ever born. 25 years ago, we had 20 years of oil left in the world at that current rate of consumption. Today? 50, I believe was the last estimate at today's current rate of consumption. And 50 years from now? I'm sure it'll be in the neighborhood of 100.

You can blow your horn as loud as you can, but eventually, you'll become extinct and the world will go on, doing what it's always done to maintain balance and renew itself. And when you're gone, there will be others to take up your flag, but hopefully will do it with a little more tact than you did here.

So tonight, in your honor, Hobo, I think I'll take my overly large family out on a drive, using up precious oil and gasoline, as well as rubber for tires. Perhaps we'll even go down to the mall parking lot and spin a few donuts on the snow and ice for even more wear and tear. Then we'll go out and gawk at Christmas lights done up by those dastardly electricity wasters, while breathing the chilly air, further pushing our planet to the brink of extinction. Then, it'll be off to I-HOP, where we'll participate in all manner of wasteful practices, from eating good food to talking and laughing and planning for Christmas as an overly large family. Yep, life is good and the faster we can waste the planet, the better I'll feel. I'm SELFISH that way.

Oh, and Hobo?

"THBTBTBTBTBTBTBTBTBT!!!!"

[golfhobo]

Ya know, I'm not exactly the sharpest pencil in the drawer, but it doesnt make sense to me. I read the article. Sounds like someone wanted their name in the paper. It's dumb, if ya ask me. Selfish? What do they mean by, saving the world? Like I said, I usually have a few bricks shy of a load, but it just sounds silly to me. How dumb people are.

I am 33 years old, and this Sunday, my wife, and I will celebrate our first year of marriage. We just found out, about a month ago, we are expecting. So, for all those yahoos that think that I am selfish, and I am ruining the world, go jump off an airplane. :P

Vasectomy? Is that what I think it is? :shock: Dag gum! This dude must not have anything to live for! No pride? I would have to tell my wife that she better go get a (whatever it's called for her), to keep from having kids. Aint happnin! I understand if a couple has a couple of kids, and they are happy with that, and then if needed, have the surgery done, but while they are engaged? :shock: Why marry? :|

JackRabbit: I responded to this earlier, but lost it all when HOGGIE (that ratbastid) sent me a PM and I was in the middle of my thirteenth try at "submitting" my post! So, I'll make it brief.

The ladies/families who were the subject of the original article were not trying to get their name in the paper. Some Conservative reporter was trying to make FUN of them for their global responsibility.

I forgot that the word "selfish" was used in the article, and didn't mean to parrot that here! That was my OWN opinion, for which I have been UNREASONABLY skewered!

Yes, a Vasectomy is a "snip" operation, but I hear it is reversable. Something like a temporay/permanent condom. For the women, it is called a Tubal Ligation (tubes tied) and that, TOO, is reversable.

For the record, I think BOTH examples in the article were a bit over the top! I would NEVER consider or advise a vasectomy during engagement to prevent an unexpected child. There are other methods. But, I took OFFENSE to Ms. Parker's "Ann Coulter" approach to what WAS their decision! (Specifically, the Darwinist Award.) If you're not familiar with the Carbon Footprint theory, you need to check out Al Gore's book.

I think marriage is one of the BEST forms of birth control! How else can a man be "shot down" about having sex, without spending loads of money on drinks first?? So..... ENJOY!!

All that aside..... Congratulations on your expectancy!! I think children are wonderful, and I hope you have 1.8 MORE!!

BTW.... I allready DID the jump from a plane thingie, and have the screws in my ankle to prove it! But, thanks for the thought!

Sorry to "hit and run" but like I said, this is a repost. My Firebase is under attack, and I don't plan on getting overrun! :wink:

[Mack2]

Golfhobo no wonder that southerners think you are a yankee.

Frankley I think married parents should have as many childern as they want.

Golfhobo what your sugesting is dictatorship.