Hours of Service Rules

[Rookie McRookerson]

I just finished my OTR training with a trainer. I am in a moral dilemma.

One of the first days out my trainer advised me of how to, what I preceived as, forge my logs. I let it go for a couple of days. But, the more it happened the more it bothered me. We finally had a real serious talk about whether we could continue together. I'm wondering if I was just being nieve to the way the real trucking world runs. I'll give a couple examples below. I'd appreciate some feedback from you guys.

1) HOS rules say that when you are waiting to be loaded or unloaded at a dock, you must log yourself as on duty not driving.

2) The same goes for after you are empty and waiting to be dispatched on another load.

3) Whenever you are completing paperwork related to your work you must log yourself on duty not driving.

These are just a few examples. The longer we were together the more I saw his point that if you follow the HOS rules you will burn up all your hours just sitting and not be able to average even 1,500 miles per week.

Everything I've heard was to not cheat on your logs. That warning kept ringing in my ears.

His point was that that every driver does it and if I don't, I won't make any money.

Help me understand how logging works in the real world. Next week I'll get my truck assignment and be out on my own. I'd like to get my head around this issue before I get out on my own.

[thebaldeagle655]

On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;


Your carrier should provide you with a letter on their letterhead relieving you of duty when not physically loading, unloading etc.

No, it's not falsification, if yo have the documentation from yoru employer you will be fine.

[Uturn2001]

An acid test as to whether or not you can log off duty is: Can you do what you want to do during that period of time without losing your job or getting a reprimand? If the answer is yes then you can log off duty.

Do not over think this and try to create a bunch of what-ifs. Just simply ask the question "Am I free to do what I want?" and assign a yes or no answer to it.

[Rookie McRookerson]

On duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On duty time shall include:

(1) All time at a plant, terminal, facility, or other property of a motor carrier or shipper, or on any public property, waiting to be dispatched, unless the driver has been relieved from duty by the motor carrier;


Your carrier should provide you with a letter on their letterhead relieving you of duty when not physically loading, unloading etc.

No, it's not falsification, if yo have the documentation from yoru employer you will be fine.

I did receive a little card from the Safety Director during orientation. I didn't understand what it meant at the time. It may be just what you are referring to. It reads:

"In compliance with D.O.T. regulation 395.2, you are hereby notified that you are relieved from any and all duty when making routine stops while enroute. The duration of your relief shall not be less than 30 minutes. The meal or routine stop may be logged as "OFF DUTY" time."

Is this what you are referring to?

[Uturn2001]

Yes, that is what he is talking about.

[Uturn2001]

Now remember, just because you have that card, logging off duty for short periods of time does not stop the 14 hour rule. All it does is save your hours on the 70 hour rule.

[Roadhog]

I have a similar document from my Employer.
Also...when I first started out...
I had one book and a medium black ink pen.

Even a President bends the rules.

Do what you feel comfortable with...and don't concern yourself with what anyone else is doing. After a year or so...you will see yourself developing into the kind of Trucker you want to be, and be doing the kind of Trucking you want to do.

Brace yourself. There will be bigger challenges ahead than just figuring out your coloring book. You will need to adapt and make other adjustments...and those things are yours to figure out. What might be easy for some is hard for others...so...keep in mind...starting out is tough for us all...and it really doesn't get any easier. You just learn to deal with it, or you quit.

Learning is an ongoing process. No matter how long you drive...you will still be learning new things.

P.S..... :shock: Leave your Service Weapon at home...
You will be tempted to go to gunpoint 20 times a day as a Trucker.
Especially at the Docks. :evil:

[silvan]

Do not over think this and try to create a bunch of what-ifs. Just simply ask the question "Am I free to do what I want?" and assign a yes or no answer to it.

Another example is if you are BSing with the people on the docks for awhile after loading or unloading. My card used to say I could only log off duty if the vehicle was locked and chocked, so technically if I was still up against the dock with the doors open, it wasn't locked and chocked, but I'd log that 15 minutes of chat time off-duty anyway, because I was free to do whatever I wanted for that time, and could have walked away from the truck or whatever, so long as I got everything rolling again in time to make the next appointment.

All of that went out the window with the new HOS rules though. I don't think I have ever touched line 1 again except when I am physically done with a run and at home, and I don't even have an off duty card where I'm at now. That new 14 hour rule ate all my BSing with friends time, and all my stopping to eat time, and I had to start just hammering down to get it all done before the deadline, because I used to have a Monday run that took every ounce of 14.00 hours to get it all done, and I mean cramming it with a hydraulic ram to compress it enough to just barely fit under about 50,000 psi ready to pop loose and leak out over the line. That run is why I have gray hair.

In contrast, I'm working more hours more days now, but nothing is tight. I hate tight running. (Although I'd still be running tight as a banjo string on Mondays if I could have Tuedays, Fridays, AND Saturdays off. I miss that job. )

[Fredog]

I just finished my OTR training with a trainer. I am in a moral dilemma.

One of the first days out my trainer advised me of how to, what I preceived as, forge my logs. I let it go for a couple of days. But, the more it happened the more it bothered me. We finally had a real serious talk about whether we could continue together. I'm wondering if I was just being nieve to the way the real trucking world runs. I'll give a couple examples below. I'd appreciate some feedback from you guys.

1) HOS rules say that when you are waiting to be loaded or unloaded at a dock, you must log yourself as on duty not driving.

2) The same goes for after you are empty and waiting to be dispatched on another load.

3) Whenever you are completing paperwork related to your work you must log yourself on duty not driving.

These are just a few examples. The longer we were together the more I saw his point that if you follow the HOS rules you will burn up all your hours just sitting and not be able to average even 1,500 miles per week.

Everything I've heard was to not cheat on your logs. That warning kept ringing in my ears.

His point was that that every driver does it and if I don't, I won't make any money.

Help me understand how logging works in the real world. Next week I'll get my truck assignment and be out on my own. I'd like to get my head around this issue before I get out on my own.

if you cant make a decent salary without cheating, you are working for the wrong company. YOU are the one who will go to jail if something happens and you are caught.

[Rookie McRookerson]

Now remember, just because you have that card, logging off duty for short periods of time does not stop the 14 hour rule. All it does is save your hours on the 70 hour rule.

Yeah, I understand that part. Once the 14 hour clock starts, it doesn't stop. My concern was regarding eating up the 70.

Thanks!

[Rookie McRookerson]

I have a similar document from my Employer.
Also...when I first started out...
I had one book and a medium black ink pen.

Even a President bends the rules.

Do what you feel comfortable with...and don't concern yourself with what anyone else is doing. After a year or so...you will see yourself developing into the kind of Trucker you want to be, and be doing the kind of Trucking you want to do.

Brace yourself. There will be bigger challenges ahead than just figuring out your coloring book. You will need to adapt and make other adjustments...and those things are yours to figure out. What might be easy for some is hard for others...so...keep in mind...starting out is tough for us all...and it really doesn't get any easier. You just learn to deal with it, or you quit.

Learning is an ongoing process. No matter how long you drive...you will still be learning new things.

P.S..... :shock: Leave your Service Weapon at home...
You will be tempted to go to gunpoint 20 times a day as a Trucker.
Especially at the Docks. :evil:

All good points Roadhog! Especially the one about the service weapon!!! :wink:

[Rookie McRookerson]

I just finished my OTR training with a trainer. I am in a moral dilemma.

One of the first days out my trainer advised me of how to, what I preceived as, forge my logs. I let it go for a couple of days. But, the more it happened the more it bothered me. We finally had a real serious talk about whether we could continue together. I'm wondering if I was just being nieve to the way the real trucking world runs. I'll give a couple examples below. I'd appreciate some feedback from you guys.

1) HOS rules say that when you are waiting to be loaded or unloaded at a dock, you must log yourself as on duty not driving.

2) The same goes for after you are empty and waiting to be dispatched on another load.

3) Whenever you are completing paperwork related to your work you must log yourself on duty not driving.

These are just a few examples. The longer we were together the more I saw his point that if you follow the HOS rules you will burn up all your hours just sitting and not be able to average even 1,500 miles per week.

Everything I've heard was to not cheat on your logs. That warning kept ringing in my ears.

His point was that that every driver does it and if I don't, I won't make any money.

Help me understand how logging works in the real world. Next week I'll get my truck assignment and be out on my own. I'd like to get my head around this issue before I get out on my own.

if you cant make a decent salary without cheating, you are working for the wrong company. YOU are the one who will go to jail if something happens and you are caught.

Fredog, you're missing the point completely. This has nothing to do with the company. It has to do with the downtime while waiting to get loaded at the shipper or unloaded at the consignee and waiting for the next dispatch. You can't always get a preplan for your next load. Sometimes you have to wait a while.

My whole point in my original question was: How are truckers in the real world handling complaince with the HOS rules and keeping their miles up?

[Orangetxguy]

My whole point in my original question was: How are truckers in the real world handling complaince with the HOS rules and keeping their miles up?

Rookie.....Truckers are handling compliance the same way now, under these new HOS regs, as they did under the old regs. The only drivers your going to hear "Log it like you worked it" from, are the LTL guy's who work a 12 hour shift, Local drivers doing tanker or whatever..and working a 12 hour shift, and the $5.00 a mile guys, who only run 50,000 miles a year.

Everybody else will do what they need to do, to make a decent living and keep their jobs. They will turn in a piece of paper that say's they did it legally.

Just as they have always done.

[Jack_07]

Here is the way I have been doing it, lets say you pull into the shipper and it takes you 30 minutes to get the paperwork done for your load and back into the dock, that 30 minutes is logged as onduty not driving, then while you are being loaded it takes you 2 hours to get loaded, at which time you sit back in the sleeper berth and watch tv, That 2 hours is logged as sleeper berth, due to the fact that while you are in the sleeper unit of your truck, that does not mean you have to be actually sleeping.


Hope this helps and yes it is legal.

[NevadaJim]

It seems your trainer was trying to teach you the tricks of getting over on the log pretty quick. If he said all drivers are doing it and you can't make any money without cheating, it makes me wonder how much IDC is paying you guys. What's their payscale like that makes cheating the logbook look so attractive? How much are you getting per mile? Detention? Layover?

[Roadhog]

I think if you can PM either GolfHobo...or Rawlco...either of these guys can give you great advice and options in regards to Logging.
They are both driving...so give them a while to respond.

I don't know the Company you will drive for...but do your best to log legal, and plan your routes so you can make your picks and drops on time. Keep a list of phone numbers of Driver's you can call for advice. You are going to find yourself needing questions answered fast (on many subjects)...and often. Use the CB or at TS's and Docks, ask another Driver. I did and still do.

You need to know all the rules and limitations. The closer you follow this the better. I hate liers, and hate the feeling it gives me, if I find myself doing the same. When I first started logging...it was a big deal for me, but the more I learned and understood, the more I was able to find a larger comfort zone. I am still not comfortable coloring too far outside the lines...but my humor helps see me through it. Knowing what I know helps the most. Starting out...with no experiance...your comfort zone is going to be very small. Don't try to be a Super Trucker too fast. You will either find yourself in trouble, making mistakes, or hating your job.


As far as logging sleeper berth at the docks...keep in mind your split is 2/8...no longer 5/5.

[glasman2]

I talked to Rick (Rookie McRookerson) for a bit on the phone yesterday.
It sounds like the card IDC gives you releases you from Duty, from docking time until dispatch. Thus you can log line 1 off duty, saving your hours for the week. From what I gathered most ( not all ) is drop and hook.

My friend/soon to be trainer with IDC just left here a few days ago, had 3 drops, very light load, 60 bucks each unload ( which he seldom has to unload anything ) then he dropped his empty and hooked to a full, then left Washington to Georgia.

Rick is going to ask when he gets back to the terminal, and I will ask next time I call my friend.

[Rookie McRookerson]

I think if you can PM either GolfHobo...or Rawlco...either of these guys can give you great advice and options in regards to Logging.
They are both driving...so give them a while to respond.

I don't know the Company you will drive for...but do your best to log legal, and plan your routes so you can make your picks and drops on time. Keep a list of phone numbers of Driver's you can call for advice. You are going to find yourself needing questions answered fast (on many subjects)...and often. Use the CB or at TS's and Docks, ask another Driver. I did and still do.

You need to know all the rules and limitations. The closer you follow this the better. I hate liers, and hate the feeling it gives me, if I find myself doing the same. When I first started logging...it was a big deal for me, but the more I learned and understood, the more I was able to find a larger comfort zone. I am still not comfortable coloring too far outside the lines...but my humor helps see me through it. Knowing what I know helps the most. Starting out...with no experiance...your comfort zone is going to be very small. Don't try to be a Super Trucker too fast. You will either find yourself in trouble, making mistakes, or hating your job.


As far as logging sleeper berth at the docks...keep in mind your split is 2/8...no longer 5/5.

Thanks Roadhog. You hit the nail right on the head! I also love your sense of humor!!! I am exactly where you were when you first started. I'm having enough trouble with logging without trying the split sleeper stuff. It will be some time before I get my head around that!

thanks again for your wise advice.

[silvan]

The only drivers your going to hear "Log it like you worked it" from[...] and the $5.00 a mile guys, who only run 50,000 miles a year.

And the dedicated auto parts haulers who run a truckload down and a truckload back with 3-4 hours to spare every day.

Everybody else will do what they need to do, to make a decent living and keep their jobs. They will turn in a piece of paper that say's they did it legally.

No, no, no. Everybody will do it legally, just like they always have. Read the story books. Story books never lie.

(Logging 100% legal is a novel thing, but I have to say I really do sincerely hope to continue this way for the rest of my career. It's so much less complicated when you can just draw the damn line and go on. Not that I'm admitting to ever having done anything to the contrary in my past life, you understand. Not at all. I've always run 100% legal. It just never stops being novel. Yeah. Um.)

[golfhobo]

Rookie said:

1) HOS rules say that when you are waiting to be loaded or unloaded at a dock, you must log yourself as on duty not driving.

Well, I haven't been PM'd, so what does THAT tell ya??

There were alot of questions in that first post, and MANY good answers on this thread. But.... I want to first address just this ONE point.

It seems that the most recent edition of the HOS is a "work in progress." Meaning, I have checked in many times and found that things have been "reworded."

This is what I found NOW on this question:

B-6. How would "waiting time" at a terminal, plant, or port be logged?

"Waiting time" at a terminal, plant, or port may be recorded as off-duty, sleeper berth, or on duty/not driving, depending on specific circumstances.

For "waiting time" to be off-duty, the following off-duty conditions must be met:

The driver must be relieved of all duty and responsibility for the care and custody of the vehicle, its accessories, and any cargo or passengers it may be carrying.

During the stop, and for the duration of the stop, the driver must be at liberty to pursue activities of his/her own choosing and to leave the premises where the vehicle is situated.

If circumstances permit a driver to utilize a valid sleeper berth without being disturbed for a specific period of "waiting time," that time in the sleeper berth may be recorded as "sleeper berth" time.

However, a driver must take eight consecutive hours in a sleeper berth, plus another two consecutive hours off duty or in a sleeper berth, in order to meet the requirement for the equivalent of 10 consecutive hours off duty.

In most other circumstances, such as when the driver is required to remain with the vehicle to move it when necessary, the "waiting time" should be recorded as "on duty/not driving."

Here is how I interpret this new (I think) wording:

Off duty (line 1) should ONLY be used for enroute stops for meals and showers, etc., of a limited duration, when the company has agreed that you can have that amount of "personal time" while completing your assigned run.

While at a shipper, or consignee, you are not really at liberty to go sightseeing.... therefore, not REALLY "off duty."

However, it seems that if, after logging maybe 15 mins as checking in and docking or parking, the shipper/cons says THEY will call you or come get you when it is your "time," you can crawl into the sleeper until that time, and log it on line 2. You are not really "interrupted" until they call you. All time until then should be able to be logged in the sleeper, and therefore "saved" against your 70.

The part about combining the breaks to meet the required 10 hour "break" is only a reminder that, say... 1.5 hours in the sleeper "waiting" cannot count as one of the two breaks, and is therefore STILL counted against your 14 hour clock.

If you are standing around outside the vehicle, or sitting at the controls, because "moving it" is "imminent," you are on line 4. But, if you are at the dock, but you will not be loaded/unloaded for some time, you can get in the sleeper and log it that way. You will be "notified," when you are needed to be ready to move it.