Hours of Service Rules

[Rookie McRookerson]

Thanks for the clarification Golfhobo. I didn't PM you because I'm not real savie on doing that.

Now that I have that clarification I still have the more general question from experienced drivers: In the real world of driving, how are you really logging your hours? I'm not looking for the legal wording. I'm more interested in how drivers out there are managing their time.

No disrespect intended Golfhobo. Just trying to see how creative people are in this practice.

[Uturn2001]

Here is how I dealt with this in the "real" world.

Dock time: Logged off duty if I was doing basically what I wanted to do such as reading a book, watching a movie/TV, eating, etc. If for some reason I ended up waiting to be unloaded for 10 or more hours and I got enough rest I would then log it as sleeper and off duty as the time merited to complete my break.

I logged it as On duty if I was actually on the dock counting freight, prepping the trailer, etc.

Waiting to be dispatched.

I would log that as on duty only if I had to sit in the terminal/office and could not go and do anything I wanted to do.

[golfhobo]

Thanks for the clarification Golfhobo. I didn't PM you because I'm not real savie on doing that.

Now that I have that clarification I still have the more general question from experienced drivers: In the real world of driving, how are you really logging your hours? I'm not looking for the legal wording. I'm more interested in how drivers out there are managing their time.

No disrespect intended Golfhobo. Just trying to see how creative people are in this practice.

None taken. I was just poking fun at myself! :wink:

Now.... are you saying that I don't qualify as an experienced driver?? :shock:

Just kidding again!!

I think Orangetxguy and Jack07 gave you the straight poop. As your trainer said, if you log EVERYTHING legal in OTR, you won't make any money, cuz you won't have any time left for driving.

Many of us don't like to flat out show newbies how to cheat on this board, but..... since you're pressing me......

Remember, your log does not always have to show where you are exactly. i.e: If I arrive early at a shipper, and have hours to wait. Who says I didn't "wait" those hours at a Truckstop or the side of the road? Maybe, I JUST arrived at the shipper in time for my appointment. No way I'm logging HOURS on line 4 just because I'm on the shipper's property.

Or if I DO say I'm there (it only says what town I'm in, anyway,) I'm in the sleeper for as much time as I can show! Most shippers won't have you tying up an actual DOCK for more time than necessary, but it can STILL take hours to load/unload you at times.

First.... I don't log ANYTHING until after it happens and I am ready to leave. Then, I determine how creative I can be at saving my 70. First question is whether or not my bills are time stamped to show start and stop times. Usually they ARE! :evil:

So, if these yahoos say they took 3 hours to load me, I show 15 mins to encompass the start time, then go to sleeper, then show 15-30 mins to "load" and get my paperwork.

If they don't time stamp, I show 15-30 mins for the whole process, and I show it happened when I WANT it to have happened. If I got there at 6 a.m. and they didn't get around to me until 10, I MIGHT say they got me at 6 a.m. and I took a break following that. I'm not showing 4 hours on line 4, when I didn't do anything but REST the whole time.

Now, remember. I had to show starting my 14 hour clock anyway... so there's no way this "saving" of time on my 70 is going to mean that I'm able to drive past the 14 hour clock for that day, unless I was there for OVER 8 hours, in which case.... you're dang right I want those hours back!

"Fudging" my logs so I can get my job done that day or week, is ONE thing. But, I won't usually go so far as to cheat in a manner and with the purpose of.... driving beyond the limits that the Feds say will make me a sleepy and dangerous driver. I DON'T condone running two logbooks so that a driver can basically drive for 20 hours straight without a break!

Also, there is what's called speed averaging. So, if I drove slow or stopped too many times to pee, or stretch, or whatever... when I get somewhere, I may "tighten up" my log to show that I ONLY used the driving time that I SHOULD have used to get there. Then, after resting at the shipper for more time than my body needs to recuperate from a little bit of driving, I'll have driving time left to get down the road.... as long as it doesn't exceed the 14 hour limit.

If I AM "split logging" and I took 4, 30 minute breaks during my drive, I MAY say that I took ONE 2 hour break, this means I only need to "shut down" for 8 hours when the time comes, allowing me to leave sooner and get down the road.

Now... many on here MIGHT call me a cheat or a hypocrite or whatever. But, MANY have done the same thing. Many don't have to because they have those great paying jobs. Fact is, many OTR drivers are just barely making it, and will do what they need to to survive, or get out of the business.

The regs can be very constricting, but their main purpose is to ensure that we are not driving dangerous and sleepy. I "feel" that I am adhering to that principle, so MY conscience is clear.

Yours is your own business.

[Rookie McRookerson]

Thanks Golfhobo. Didn't mean to press you. But, I appreciate your candor. It really helps me get my head around the issue.

I will be picking up my truck tomorrow and will be on my own. I feel like I'm getting a clearer picture of how to log and still sleep at night!

Thanks,
Rick

[Roadhog]

Good thing to do if needed...stay off the tolls. They are time stamped.
Watch and plan your fuel stops. DOT can and will verify with your Comdata, if they feel the reason to.....so just because your fuel ticket just shows the day...doesn't mean they can't check your charge card for the actual time.

To get around this...if you really need fuel to get by...pay cash. Your reciept only needs to go to your Boss.

Once a week... ....get your reciepts out of the truck. :? I send my bills and reciepts into the office every week...that way...there are no reciepts in the Truck.

I know...I'm crafty. :P But...hey...don't wanna make it too easy for them Badge Kissers. :twisted: Especially in the Spring when they start doing a lot of Level 1 inspections.

If I ever rewrite History....I tear the old log sheets into teensy-weensy tiny little pieces...and dump hand fulls of them into seperate waste barrels, and run for my truck...and beat-cheeks down the road to get as far away from the crime as possible. Sometimes...I even need a shower afterwards.

[Roadhog]

The regs can be very constricting, but their main purpose is to ensure that we are not driving dangerous and sleepy. I "feel" that I am adhering to that principle, so MY conscience is clear.

Hobo...I think the Regs SUCK !

The damn clock is always ticking. You can't beat the clock. I feel you actually drive more tired BECAUSE of these damn Regs. At least in my own experiance. Tick...tick...tick...tick...tick :evil:

[tdriver1959]

the regs have made it almost impossible to stop and lay your head down for 30-45 mins. those power naps does a person good.

I agree with golfhobo you can move some of your times around. I run only the Northwest and home most nights i still get into situations that I have to adjust the times to make it work. The thing I hate the most is our scale crossings and making sure that you dont cross the next scale to early and risk getting a speeding ticket. Oregon looks at those scale crossings really close. Been checked serveral times and only been told once that i was pushing the time limit too close on the crossing. Solved it by showing that I left a little eairlier.

[golfhobo]

I agree with both you guys. I never drove under the old rules, but I think the biggest mistake was doing away with the ability to take a nap and thereby extend the clock.

The fmcsa was SO intent on getting us all on a "normal" schedule - which is totally impossible - that they have made the situation worse!

Nearly every driver I talk to says that he has to give up his little power naps in order to get his miles in.

I never said I LIKED the new regs. I just said I understood their rationale. I have managed to "help them" help me! :wink:

[Roadhog]

Knowing what I know...makes it all reasonably comfortable for me to creatively improve on the ignorance of the idiot authors of these regulations.
I feel it is my moral and civic duty as a learned professional. 8)

Hey...I've heard it said, that they can not write you a speeding ticket off your logbook. They must catch you in the act of speeding.
( although what "T" said about between scales sounds likely )

What they can do however, is write you a ticket for "falsifying your logs."
Whether this is true or not...I don't know...but it sounded right when I heard this. Anyone in the know???

I have a PrePass which I know records the time as well...even though I don't roll across the scale.
I have been known to horseshoe the scalehouse...or plan my routes where I can avoid them...and/or I know the scalehouse is closed. You do become aquainted with which are open and which are not...as well as asking other Driver's if the gates were open.

But here is a question;

For the most part...they only look for weights...and registration stickers...right? They don't actually note who and when....right?
I suppose they can...but everytime I'm standing in the chickencoop...Rigs are rolling accross the scales...and they are just looking for simple violations....when there is one attendant.

When you see a small Army inside...boy howdy...you hear a lot of "Driver park and bring in your lies and wallet."

[Rev.Vassago]

I never drove under the old rules,

rookie. :P

[Mack2]

Dang I think I just learned how to cheat on my logs and I don't even drive yet. :shock:

[Roadhog]

8) Assooo young Grasshoppa....

you missa the point...it no about how to cheat
...it about how you not getta kawt. :P

Knowledge only good when you master applied knowledge.
You must pawktice and lern mastory of this skilz.

He who try to advance too qwicklee ...loose ground.

[Mack2]

8) Assooo young Grasshoppa....

you missa the point...it no about how to cheat
...it about how you not getta kawt. :P

Knowledge only good when you master applied knowledge.
You must pawktice and lern mastory of this skilz.

He who try to advance too qwicklee ...loose ground.

I understand the first part. But I sur can't figgure anything out after that. :?

[golfhobo]

I never drove under the old rules,

rookie. :P

Yeah.... but no longer a "noobie!"

What can I say? I was BUSY for the last 30 years!! :shock:

[tdriver1959]

you have to remember the people that redone the regs are probably people that have never driven a truck and dont understand what we go thru.

Yes it is not cheating as my wife says it is "Creative Writing 101" it is just knowing the rules and how to make them work to your advantage.

the naps come in handy when the sun is just starting to come up and the eyes get real tired.

Gee golfhobo didnt know your were a rookie...

[golfhobo]

you have to remember the people that redone the regs are probably people that have never driven a truck and dont understand what we go thru.

And, in most cases are younger that us!! Right out of Skewl!!

Yes it is not cheating as my wife says it is "Creative Writing 101" it is just knowing the rules and how to make them work to your advantage.

"helping THEM help ME!"

the naps come in handy when the sun is just starting to come up and the eyes get real tired.

Gee golfhobo didnt know your were a rookie...

I'll take that as a compliment!

Look at my "joined" date. I joined this forum, like most others, when I was starting school and wanting to LEARN what I was getting into! I've learned MORE from this forum than most of my trainers knew, or anyone else I ever "teamed" with! For that, I will be forever gratefull!!

But, I'm also 50 years old, and have driven more miles back and forth across this country than SOME of the professional drivers here! I was a "professional" driver BEFORE I got into Trucking!!

Within my 4 short weeks of "team training," I whittled that beast down to the size of a sports car! I SAID, and PROVED, that I could drive anything on wheels LONG before I got "sanctioned" by the powers that be.

I'm ex-military, and tho I never spent a night in a foxhole, I've got combat wings, and "special survival training." [read POW training] I'm not "skeered" of nuttin! (including jumping out of a perfectly good airplane!)

I believe in, and am sometimes vocal about the need for, brass balls to do this job! I am not shy about saying that, if you ain't cut the apron strings yet, you need to stay home with Mama!! :shock:

I call 'em as I see 'em! "Rookie" is a state of mind! If you're gonna drive on MY highway, "Lead, follow or get out of my way!"

Just a guess, but by your login, I would assume that you were BORN in 1959? My sister was born in '60. Me? 1956. You KNOW where I'm coming from. Let's ROLL!!

[Fozzy]

Drivers cheat logs, they cheat themselves.. and of course, then have no idea why they are seen as fools and suckers by their own management...

[Roadhog]

[silvan]

the regs have made it almost impossible to stop and lay your head down for 30-45 mins. those power naps does a person good.

Amen to that. I can't rant enough about how many times I had to keep pushing myself up the road because of that damn 14 hour clock. I never drove so tired as I did after that changed.

Fortunately, I don't have to worry as much about it anymore. At least while they're still making auto parts in America. How long can this job last? I'm not that optimistic, I'm afraid. I'm hoping at least two years.

Fingers crossed.

[Mack2]

you have to remember the people that redone the regs are probably people that have never driven a truck and dont understand what we go thru.

And, in most cases are younger that us!! Right out of Skewl!!

Yes it is not cheating as my wife says it is "Creative Writing 101" it is just knowing the rules and how to make them work to your advantage.

"helping THEM help ME!"

the naps come in handy when the sun is just starting to come up and the eyes get real tired.

Gee golfhobo didnt know your were a rookie...

I'll take that as a compliment!

Look at my "joined" date. I joined this forum, like most others, when I was starting school and wanting to LEARN what I was getting into! I've learned MORE from this forum than most of my trainers knew, or anyone else I ever "teamed" with! For that, I will be forever gratefull!!

But, I'm also 50 years old, and have driven more miles back and forth across this country than SOME of the professional drivers here! I was a "professional" driver BEFORE I got into Trucking!!

Within my 4 short weeks of "team training," I whittled that beast down to the size of a sports car! I SAID, and PROVED, that I could drive anything on wheels LONG before I got "sanctioned" by the powers that be.

I'm ex-military, and tho I never spent a night in a foxhole, I've got combat wings, and "special survival training." [read POW training] I'm not "skeered" of nuttin! (including jumping out of a perfectly good airplane!)

I believe in, and am sometimes vocal about the need for, brass balls to do this job! I am not shy about saying that, if you ain't cut the apron strings yet, you need to stay home with Mama!! :shock:

I call 'em as I see 'em! "Rookie" is a state of mind! If you're gonna drive on MY highway, "Lead, follow or get out of my way!"

Just a guess, but by your login, I would assume that you were BORN in 1959? My sister was born in '60. Me? 1956. You KNOW where I'm coming from. Let's ROLL!!

Your NUTS as in crazy.