A GMAN question

[merrick4]

or any other old timer. I was talking to the head of orientation of the company I work for today. He asked me how it was going etc. Well to make a long story short I mentioned how I felt about the HHG pay. He then proceeded to tell me that's what the company is paid based on and started telling me how HHG pay came about. He said something about the government used to pay trucking companies to move people for whatever reason and that guys use to sit in truck stops and jack up their trucks and let the miles add up without any real wear or tear on their trucks. Hence the government instituted this whole thing.

Sounds like a crock of ... to me but I was wondering if their was any truth in this whole thing or if you knew how this whole racket of HHG came about?

Thank you.

[Cluggy619]

That is a really nice story.

I'll put it next to "Three littles pigs", and title it "Big Fat Greedy Corp. Hog"

That system was made to benifit shipping companies with higher profits by shorting the driver.

That being said, it has been in place for so long, it's just considered the norm. It's a part of the truck driving world.....I would preferr practical miles instead.

Of course now, I get paid by the load.

[devildice]

or any other old timer. I was talking to the head of orientation of the company I work for today. He asked me how it was going etc. Well to make a long story short I mentioned how I felt about the HHG pay. He then proceeded to tell me that's what the company is paid based on and started telling me how HHG pay came about. He said something about the government used to pay trucking companies to move people for whatever reason and that guys use to sit in truck stops and jack up their trucks and let the miles add up without any real wear or tear on their trucks. Hence the government instituted this whole thing.

Sounds like a crock of ... to me but I was wondering if their was any truth in this whole thing or if you knew how this whole racket of HHG came about?

Thank you.

there is some truth there. It was originally established by the Department of Defense to calculate the cost to move service members. Here is a little article about HHG, Practical, and Hub miles.
http://www.etrucker.com/apps/news/article.asp?id=17675

[merrick4]

Very interesting, thank you very much. What's more, in my original post I didn't add that the guy told me that practical miles are only about 3 percent more than HHG. I thought it was more than that but per this article it seems about right. Well it's always good to learn something new.
Thanks again.

[NevadaJim]

Yes, the HHG system originated with the military and moving GI's and their families. They still use it today. It's anyones guess as to how many drivers actually sat in truck stops spinning up the odometers.

[devildice]

Very interesting, thank you very much. What's more, in my original post I didn't add that the guy told me that practical miles are only about 3 percent more than HHG. I thought it was more than that but per this article it seems about right. Well it's always good to learn something new.
Thanks again.

no problem

[Sheepdancer]

The reason HHG and rand mcnally miles are still paid today IS NOT to short the driver or rip him off in any way. Its about competition for freight. If you are paid HHG miles, the company is being paid HHG miles too by the customer. It seems many drivers think the company is charging the customer hub miles, paying the driver HHG miles and just pocketing the rest. Thinking its all some big conspiracy so the CEOs can get a new yacht. Simply put it goes like this. Company A bids for freight with 600 paractical miles.....Company bid comes in and bids for freight with 560 HHG miles.....>Who gets the freight?
Personally, Im convinced if everyone went to paractical miles, just as many people would still be griping that practical miles is still not hub miles.

A little side story for you Cluggy on the same subject of miles, I think you will like.
I "inadvertantly accidently" lied to a driver yesterday. Yep Me, a recruiter who prides himself on being honest actually lied......
I had a job opened up yesterday. Local day cab job which actually paid Hub miles. (first job Ive seen like that) I told the driver about the job. Was honest about the pay. I then told him he would be running about a 150-200 mile radius of his area and home every night. ( just an educated guess). he was excited about the job and I set him up for an interview. About two hours later, I get a call from the manager over that account who interviewed him. He was laughing and told me everything was going great with the interview and all of a sudden the driver stood up and started cussing about me lying to him and stormed out. I couldnt figure out what I could have possibly lied about and called the driver back. After being cussed out for a moment I finally got him to calm down and tell me. It seems when I told him he would be running 150-200 mile radius, it was more like a 200-250 mile radius. Keep in mind, this was still a daycab job. Home everynight and off every weekend. For some reason the driver didnt like the fact that he would be getting a few more HUB MILES than I originally told him......Go figure

[Cluggy619]

The reason HHG and rand mcnally miles are still paid today IS NOT to short the driver or rip him off in any way. Its about competition for freight. If you are paid HHG miles, the company is being paid HHG miles too by the customer. It seems many drivers think the company is charging the customer hub miles, paying the driver HHG miles and just pocketing the rest. Thinking its all some big conspiracy so the CEOs can get a new yacht. Simply put it goes like this. Company A bids for freight with 600 paractical miles.....Company bid comes in and bids for freight with 560 HHG miles.....>Who gets the freight?
Personally, Im convinced if everyone went to paractical miles, just as many people would still be griping that practical miles is still not hub miles.

A little side story for you Cluggy on the same subject of miles, I think you will like.
I "inadvertantly accidently" lied to a driver yesterday. Yep Me, a recruiter who prides himself on being honest actually lied......
I had a job opened up yesterday. Local day cab job which actually paid Hub miles. (first job Ive seen like that) I told the driver about the job. Was honest about the pay. I then told him he would be running about a 150-200 mile radius of his area and home every night. ( just an educated guess). he was excited about the job and I set him up for an interview. About two hours later, I get a call from the manager over that account who interviewed him. He was laughing and told me everything was going great with the interview and all of a sudden the driver stood up and started cussing about me lying to him and stormed out. I couldnt figure out what I could have possibly lied about and called the driver back. After being cussed out for a moment I finally got him to calm down and tell me. It seems when I told him he would be running 150-200 mile radius, it was more like a 200-250 mile radius. Keep in mind, this was still a daycab job. Home everynight and off every weekend. For some reason the driver didnt like the fact that he would be getting a few more HUB MILES than I originally told him......Go figure

What??? You lied??? Who Figured? (recruitors do this from time to time, kinda like this story....)

As far as companies using miles to bid for contracts, bid whatever you want. But pay your drivers the miles they drive. By the way, I always knew JB was shaving my miles. 10 % my *****. More like 20%, and then you Fu@# have the nerve to blame the drivers.

Of course, I made post like these before...........

[kips41]

HHG, Hub or practical miles.

Probably 99% of all shipments are figured on the HHG basis.

After that it is a company playing with the numbers to get drivers.
Some hub and practical companies will pay less per mile and HHG companies will pay more but in the end the driver makes about the same.

There are exceptions to this and you will just have to look at it and compare on a one on one basis.

Every company out there budgets what they are going to pay their drivers and only have so much revenue to do it with, the only thing here is the method in how they make the numbers work.

This is an issue that drivers always get bent out of shape over, be in reality it should be a non-issue. For all those drivers that say they are driving 20% more than what they are getting paid, they don't know how to plan a route very well.

[Sheepdancer]

What??? You lied??? Who Figured? (recruitors do this from time to time, kinda like this story....)

As far as companies using miles to bid for contracts, bid whatever you want. But pay your drivers the miles they drive. By the way, I always knew JB was shaving my miles. 10 % my *****. More like 20%, and then you Fu@# have the nerve to blame the drivers.

Yes, I made a mistake and lied. The horror, I actually told the driver he would be getting LESS miles than he actually would. The horror....How dare I tell the driver his paycheck would be SMALLER. No wonder he got mad and hung up. Why would someone want a bigger paycheck. More money could mean more headache.

As far as the "shaving miles" thing. It just isnt true. We pay our drivers rand Mcnally miles and we charge our customer rand mcnally miles. You were always paid for every mile we charged our customer.

[Cluggy619]

[quote="Sheepdancer"]

As far as the "shaving miles" thing. It just isnt true. We pay our drivers rand Mcnally miles and we charge our customer rand mcnally miles. You were always paid for every mile we charged our customer.

And there lies the problem.

You cut the miles for your customers so your customers will be happy. However, you also cut the pay for the driver taking the load at the same time. Here is an example:

The load by Rand McNally program would have paid 1000 miles. However, to be nice to the customer, you cut him a break in the rate, and give him 900 miles for the bid.

Going by what you stated by drivers being paid by what you charge the customer, you just SCREWED the driver out of 100 miles before he ever gets into the driver seat to start the truck. On top of that, we can count on Rand McNally being off as much as 10%, according to orientation. Some the drivers get written up when they go over that 10%varience. So at this point, the driver is not only out of 10% of the trip pay, but he is also out of varience too boot.

This practice is a big part of why I'm disgruntal. But go ahead, and tell these drivers why this is OK.

One more thing. I save EVERYTHING, even TripPaks, with every mile I was paid, and locations from pickup to delivery. You may argue with a disgruntal employees, but you can't argue with your own paperwork. :twisted: :twisted:

[Cluggy619]

HHG, Hub or practical miles.

Probably 99% of all shipments are figured on the HHG basis.

After that it is a company playing with the numbers to get drivers.
Some hub and practical companies will pay less per mile and HHG companies will pay more but in the end the driver makes about the same.

There are exceptions to this and you will just have to look at it and compare on a one on one basis.

Every company out there budgets what they are going to pay their drivers and only have so much revenue to do it with, the only thing here is the method in how they make the numbers work.

This is an issue that drivers always get bent out of shape over, be in reality it should be a non-issue. For all those drivers that say they are driving 20% more than what they are getting paid, they don't know how to plan a route very well.

That would be nice if it was just me. However, too many drivers complaining about the same thing tell me something else is the problem. And one more thing. I used the routes provided by JB. So the miles should have match the route mile, right? WRONG!!!

[Cluggy619]

or any other old timer. I was talking to the head of orientation of the company I work for today. He asked me how it was going etc. Well to make a long story short I mentioned how I felt about the HHG pay. He then proceeded to tell me that's what the company is paid based on and started telling me how HHG pay came about. He said something about the government used to pay trucking companies to move people for whatever reason and that guys use to sit in truck stops and jack up their trucks and let the miles add up without any real wear or tear on their trucks. Hence the government instituted this whole thing.

Sounds like a crock of ... to me but I was wondering if their was any truth in this whole thing or if you knew how this whole racket of HHG came about?

Thank you.

I would like to say sorry for venting on your post. It truely doesn't matter how the company pays you if it's going to short you the miles your suppose to get. My past experience with JB should NOT be the issue here, but rather their mindset on how and what they feel you deserve to be paid. I'm sure more companies do this, and it really ticks me off know my fellow drivers are getting jack around just so a company can make a few pennies more.

[Orangetxguy]

One thing about HHG miles and Rand McNalley Miles...neither system accounts for curves, hills, and exit mileage.

HHG is actually Air-miles.

"Wanna pay freight charges based on AIR MILES??..Hire an Airplane to haul yer freight."

[silvan]

I would preferr practical miles instead.

Where I'm at now, they just switched to practical miles. It pays the same as HHG miles did on this route, and I still get to drive 55 miles a day for free.

I used to get paid flat salary. I like flat salary the best. Especially if they'll pay you the difference if you would have made more doing miles, which my old company did not. I still made out well with this though, and would easily go back on salary if I had that option again.

[Rev.Vassago]

One thing about HHG miles and Rand McNalley Miles...neither system accounts for curves, hills, and exit mileage.

HHG is actually Air-miles.

No, HHG is not air miles. It is post office to post office, via the shortest available route.

If it was air miles, then it would be 20-40% below actual miles, instead of 8-10%.

[GMAN]

Hub miles are the best way for a driver to be paid. With Household goods, your actual miles versus paid can vary up to about 12% of miles driven. As I recall, household goods became the norm due to household movers driving extra miles to bill the customer more money. It was a way to protect the consumer from unscrupulous billing practices.

[Rev.Vassago]

As I recall, household goods became the norm due to household movers driving extra miles to bill the customer more money. It was a way to protect the consumer from unscrupulous billing practices.

Nope.

HHG miles came about when the government started moving military people. Since the government sets the rates on HHG moves, they needed a standard to base those rates upon. Hence, the HHG miles standard was born.

[devildice]

As I recall, household goods became the norm due to household movers driving extra miles to bill the customer more money. It was a way to protect the consumer from unscrupulous billing practices.

Nope.

HHG miles came about when the government started moving military people. Since the government sets the rates on HHG moves, they needed a standard to base those rates upon. Hence, the HHG miles standard was born.

Yep...I posted a link to an article that explains that on the 1st page

[roadranger]

I have heard oldtimers talk about the good old days when you'd jack up a wheel and let it run up the miles every time you ate lunch or took a break and actually seen an oldtimer's collection of speedometer gears he used to use to make the odometer run up extra miles. These were all union drivers driving company trucks being paid hub miles back then :shock: .