Major Question

[JOYRIDE]

I just registered and wanted to ask a question that some of you might be able to answer.

The situation is my main interest is in lifted show trucks. I currently tow my show truck, which is a F250 sitting almost 10' tall, with a F350 dually. The truck weighs 10,000 lbs. and the trailer weighs about 4,500 lbs. It is not a bad load or heavy for the dually at all, but the trailer is only 26' long and the show truck is 22' long, so there is not much room left on the trailer. I was just recently married and my wife enjoys the same show truck interest. She owns a a F250 aswell and it is 20' long.

I would like to be able to take both trucks to the shows with us, but then I would need to upgrade to a 45' trailer and that would be to heavy of a load for the dually running through the mountains. I live in South Carolina and three of the shows that I attend require me to run through the mountains in NC and Tenn. I am looking at purchasing a semi and a 53' electronics van trailer to haul both trucks. This would be a great setup so the trucks could be hauled in a enclosed trailer protecting the custom paint and dramasticly cutting down on clean up time. The sleeper would also be of great benefit for the shows that we attend in Texas and Las Vegas.

My question regards the cost of a semi being used only for personnal use. I can afford to purchase a used truck and trailer, but I have no idea what insurance runs and from a post I read earlier, one member mentioned $15,000. I know tags are $2,000. These are the items that I can't afford to pay on a yearly bases, for a truck that might see 15 runs a year. I talked to DOT about registering it as an RV for personnal use, but they said that was cut about 5-6 years ago. So if it must be registered as a commercial vehicle, then all I would need is for the truck to earn the cost of insurance, tags and fuel. I have no experience in the trucking industry, but read some post regarding casual drivers, but without OTR or 1 yr experience, I am wondering if anybody would want me. I just want the truck to pay for itself and that is it, nothing more.

I might be way out of my league, but just posting a question to people who are much more educated on this than I am. Sorry for the long post, but this is something I have been wondering for a few months.

Thanks in advanced,
Jonathan

[wot i life]

Sorry I can,t help with your questions, maybe Gman can help you.
Reason I,m replying though is, I often go to antique truck shows in U.K and help out at them. I hope Gman or one of the others in U.S can help you bro :wink:
I love antique truck shows and steam fairs :wink:

[NascarFan]

Do you already have a CDL because if you don't your in for a surprise with the Dually and the trailer.

Maybe your best bet would be to buy another rig like you have and let someone else drive it.

[JOYRIDE]

Nascar,

I don't currently have a CDL. I have study the book and have to go get my health card so I can take the permit test.

I have a friend who drove trucks for over 20 years and said I shouldn't have that much problem learning, but I have never even sat in a big rig much less driven one so I am sure I will be overwhelmed at first. If many of you every saw me drive my dually with the 26' trailer, you would problably laugh at me. I take turns much wider than needed for such a short rig just because it makes me feel like I am as important as you big truck drivers. However though, He would be the one to teach me how to shift correctly, backing and so on.

That wouldn't be that bad, but sometimes it is just my wife and I and everytime the truck gets rolling, she seems to be tired. That would also double the fuel bill. The dually gets about 6-7 on average when pulling just one show truck. From reading, that is close to what some of the big rigs get.

Wot,

I don't get to see many antiques at the shows, but there is one show that we attend that is a all truck event. It is amazing how much time and effort some people put into the antiques to make them cleaner than they were when they were manufactured.

Thank you both for the replies and it might be a long shot, but I have my fingers crossed!

Thanks,
Jonathan

[ExchangeMan]

Welcome to the board Joyride,

You have a situation similar to mine. I've got a tractor and flatbed trailer that for now I am using just for personal use. I'm hoping to go into trucking full time in the future, but too many other things in my life are preventing that now. It's a long story.

I was faced with the same problem on insurance. You're right, it can cost a lot of money, except for one thing. I have my truck and trailer insured through Progressive. It is something like personal use insurance, although they don't call it that. I believe they call it non-trucking liability. You will be asked to declare a value to your truck and trailer. The lower the value you declare, the less your physical damage (combination of comprehensive and collision) will be.

I declare less than my tractor and trailer are worth to keep the premiums down. Also, I declare a $5000 deductible for physical damage - that makes a big difference. My total premium each year is about $3000. That is very reasonable in my opinion considering that my truck and trailer were both purchased brand new, are 2006 models and totaled nearly $200,000.

Also, make sure that you get 'unlimited' range. If you get full blown commercial trucking insurance through Progressive, you are limited to 300 miles. The personal insurance has no limit.

Make sure you discuss and ask all the questions. Hopefully, your MVR is clean. They do look at that. They also pull a credit bureau. You will also have to possess a class A CDL, but they should be able to provide a quote without having the truck and trailer. I got quotes from them before I ordered both the truck and trailer.

Call Progressive. Hopefully, the type of coverage I have will be available to you. I live in Illinois. Progressive seems to be the only game in town for people with no OTR experience. Any other full blown insurance may be into the 5 figures for annual premiums with no experience.

There are some insurance companies that will insure the tractor as an RV, but you must also insure an RV trailer through them. I looked into that, but it was such a hassle, I dropped it. Also, in Illinois, a semi-tractor can be registered as an RV, but 4 of 6 requirements must be met to do that. These include having a cooking facility on board, refrigerator, toilet facilities, separate power unit for the living space, etc.

If you can't get RV registration and go out of your home state, you will likely need IRP plates. IRP plates say 'apportioned' on them. With IRP plates, you need to declare which states you will drive in along with a gross weight. The less weight you can declare. the better - it's cheaper. You will also need a license tag for the trailer. You will need to add the combined weight of the tractor, trailer and your cargo, then go at least a few thousand pounds more for such things as fuel and personal belongings. 80,000 pounds will be anywhere from $1500 to $2500 per year.

In Illinois, we can get permanent plates for semi-trailers. There's no per year charge for it, just a one time fee.

If you can get away with 50,000 pounds for the combination, it may save quite a bit of money.

Try to keep it under 55,000 pounds. At that weight or higher, you need to pay Heavy Vehicle Use Tax (HVUT). That gets paid to the feds. I believe it's $550 per year and it's an IRS form. 2290 rings a bell.

You will also need to participate in the IFTA program. That has to do with fuel taxes. There are quarterly filings to be done with your state revenue department.

You may also consider going to a community college for your CDL. Insurance companies like to see that you went through a formal CDL program.

Also, don't forget about where you will store the tractor and trailer. If you live in a subdivision like me, forget about it. I have an industrial building I own that I store the truck and trailer in and it's less than 15 minutes from the house. Not only does it give safe and reliable storage, but it keeps the equipment out of the weather for when you're not using it.

Good luck to you and ask questions if you need to here.

[GMAN]

The first think you will need to do is get your Class A CDL. Since you don't already have your CDL you may find it difficult to get insurance. If you are not going to haul "for hire" freight, that should help you some on your insurance. Before you go out and buy a truck, I would do some checking on insurance. Most require you to have a minimum of 2 years of driving experience. Some have had luck with Progressive. Since you will only be hauling to and from shows, they may give you a break on your insurance. Unless you can get a discount because of the usage, expect to pay at least $5-8,000 per year unless they offer a non-commercial use discount. You will probably still have to get a Single State Registration for the truck and IFTA. You may also need to get your motor carrier authority. Authority will cost $300. There may be a way around having to get authority since you are basically hauling your own stuff and not doing anything commercially. You will probably need a DOT number. You may want to put "NOT FOR HIRE" on the side of the truck. You need to check with your state and see exactly what they require you to have to run legal. Explain what you plan to do and they will tell you whether you need authority, etc.,

[Roadhog]

As to working the rig part-time to pay the added expenses...and more importantly...run the dang thing...so it isn't just sitting...and be gaining experiance.....

Local Farmers.
They need all the trucks they can get at harvest time.
Fruit Processor plants are always running frozen product from the freezer to Storage facilities...as well. Usually local shuttle runs.

Most of the Farmer/Truckers don't even need to do log books. They also fall under a different registration. I don't know all what is involved...but you may check into that too.

[GMAN]

There are some exemptions when it comes to agriculture.

[Roadhog]

I just had another brilliant idea? okay...just gas....but
ya know what...most of the Farmer's around me...their Trucks sit alot.
Maybe you can work something out with a Farmer...instead of buying your own rig. :? ??
Farmer's love the color green.

[NascarFan]

Nascar,
I don't currently have a CDL. I have study the book and have to go get my health card so I can take the permit test.

Just do this for me would you. Go out and take a look a your trucks GVWR and your trailers GVWR then add them together and tell me what you get.

[JOYRIDE]

Exchange Man,

That is all great information and exactly what I was looking for. All of our other insurance is through progressive, so hopfully I will be able to get none commercial insurance. Thanks again, that is priceless info.

GMAN,

I haven't had very good luck with DOT in my state. Everybody I talk to wants to transfer me to somebody else and then I end up talking to the person who first transfered me. I will check on the rest of the info and it is greatly appreciated.

Roadhog,

All the info from the site is really helping me with places to start. I have looked through the paper to find independent contractor jobs and so forth, but I wanted to ask here and find other places to check with aswell. Agriculture has really slowed around here in the past few years. I don't mind purchasing a rig that way I can run it when needed and to gain experience like you said.

Nascar,

The combined GVWR is 25,200. The truck is 11,200 and the trailer is 14,000. We keep it under 26,001 so CDL's wouldn't be needed at the time because I was only 19 and not old enough to take the test.

Thanks again for all the info. It is very much appreciated.

Jonathan

[Krzysztof]

You will need an Airbrake endorsement regardless of GVWR because the rig will have airbrakes.

[Deus]

If many of you every saw me drive my dually with the 26' trailer, you would problably laugh at me. I take turns much wider than needed for such a short rig just because it makes me feel like I am as important as you big truck drivers.

So *thats* why you guys do that! I've noticed a lot of pickups pulling trailers that go way wider than they have to. And sometimes I'm behind them and I'm thinking "I could almost make this turn, why are you waiting for a break in the traffic?". It all makes sense now...

[NascarFan]

Nascar,
The combined GVWR is 25,200. The truck is 11,200 and the trailer is 14,000. We keep it under 26,001 so CDL's wouldn't be needed at the time because I was only 19 and not old enough to take the test.

Thanks again for all the info. It is very much appreciated.

Jonathan

You ever been stoped with that rig? I know some guys here in NC running the same setup and they got stoped and got tickets for not having a CDL.

[Manicmechnic]

Nascar,

The combined GVWR is 25,200. The truck is 11,200 and the trailer is 14,000. We keep it under 26,001 so CDL's wouldn't be needed at the time because I was only 19 and not old enough to take the test.

Thanks again for all the info. It is very much appreciated.

Jonathan

One word of caution here, according to US DOT any driver towing a trailer over 10,001 lbs must have a class "A" CDL.

The Commercial Motor Vehicle Act of 1986 (The Act) was designed to remove unsafe and unqualified drivers of heavy trucks and buses from the nation’s highways. The Act required the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Transportation to issue regulations establishing guidelines and standards for the testing and licensing of CMV drivers. These guidelines and standards were established in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Chapter 49, Part 383. All states adopted these licensing guidelines and standards in April 1992 . The commercial driver’s license requirements are applicable to drivers transporting persons or property in both interstate or intrastate commerce. The commercial driver’s license has three classes covering the following vehicle classification groups:

Class A -- Required for a combination vehicle with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more and towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Required for a single unit vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 lbs. GVWR.


So if the trailer weighs more than 10,001 lbs you must have a Class A CDL

[JOYRIDE]

Manicmechnic,

I am confused by the reading of that law. As I read it, I understand it to be if it is just my truck and trailer unloaded, then I am fine. When I load the show truck on the trailer which GVWR is over 10,001, then I am over the limit.

Please correct me if am I am wrong. If I am using my truck and trailer with a GCWR of 25,200 to haul furniture then I am ok.

When I am towing my truck, it is overweight due to the fact that I have to add the GVWR of the truck that is being towed to the GCWR of the the tow truck and trailer. Is this correct?

Another question I need to ask then. You said that if the trailer weighs more than 10,001 lbs. then I would need a CDL. If my understanding is way off and it is just based on trailer weight alone, then how am I suppose to get a CDL without access to a semi? I know Florida has rigs for you to take your test in, but in SC you must provide your own rig. This is a problem for my buddy aswell. He is a firefighter and has his class B's already. He wants to upgrade to class A's but we do not have access to a semi to take our road test in. This is what would make me purchase a semi before I have my CDL, just so I can take the test. I am sure it is different for people going through school, but we have a friend who can teach us all we need to know and more but he does not own a semi anymore either.

Is there any advice you can give me on this situation, or is there something that I do not know about this aswell?

Nascar,

I have never been stopped in this rig, so I haven't had any problems yet.

Thanks very much for the information and please keep posting anything you can think of.

Jonathan

[NascarFan]

Manicmechnic,

I am confused by the reading of that law. As I read it, I understand it to be if it is just my truck and trailer unloaded, then I am fine. When I load the show truck on the trailer which GVWR is over 10,001, then I am over the limit.

Please correct me if am I am wrong. If I am using my truck and trailer with a GCWR of 25,200 to haul furniture then I am ok.

When I am towing my truck, it is overweight due to the fact that I have to add the GVWR of the truck that is being towed to the GCWR of the the tow truck and trailer. Is this correct?

Another question I need to ask then. You said that if the trailer weighs more than 10,001 lbs. then I would need a CDL. If my understanding is way off and it is just based on trailer weight alone, then how am I suppose to get a CDL without access to a semi? I know Florida has rigs for you to take your test in, but in SC you must provide your own rig. This is a problem for my buddy aswell. He is a firefighter and has his class B's already. He wants to upgrade to class A's but we do not have access to a semi to take our road test in. This is what would make me purchase a semi before I have my CDL, just so I can take the test. I am sure it is different for people going through school, but we have a friend who can teach us all we need to know and more but he does not own a semi anymore either.

Is there any advice you can give me on this situation, or is there something that I do not know about this aswell?

Nascar,

I have never been stopped in this rig, so I haven't had any problems yet.

Thanks very much for the information and please keep posting anything you can think of.

Jonathan

The truck does not change the gross weight the GVWR is what the trailer including itself can haul safley. But if the trailer has a GVWR of more than 10,001lbs you will need a class A CDL.

[BanditsCousin]

Consider a "toter". Its like a tractor with a huge sleeper, that generally pulls a c-car enclosed race trailer. That would be the ideal setup. Some don't need CDL, if I am correct.

I'll find a pic and post it later....

[BanditsCousin]

[traveler15301]

Nascar,

The combined GVWR is 25,200. The truck is 11,200 and the trailer is 14,000. We keep it under 26,001 so CDL's wouldn't be needed at the time because I was only 19 and not old enough to take the test.

Thanks again for all the info. It is very much appreciated.

Jonathan

One word of caution here, according to US DOT any driver towing a trailer over 10,001 lbs must have a class "A" CDL.

The Commercial Motor Vehicle Act of 1986 (The Act) was designed to remove unsafe and unqualified drivers of heavy trucks and buses from the nation’s highways. The Act required the Secretary of the U.S. Department of Transportation to issue regulations establishing guidelines and standards for the testing and licensing of CMV drivers. These guidelines and standards were established in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Chapter 49, Part 383. All states adopted these licensing guidelines and standards in April 1992 . The commercial driver’s license requirements are applicable to drivers transporting persons or property in both interstate or intrastate commerce. The commercial driver’s license has three classes covering the following vehicle classification groups:

Class A -- Required for a combination vehicle with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more and towing a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 10,000 pounds.

Class B -- Required for a single unit vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 lbs. GVWR.


So if the trailer weighs more than 10,001 lbs you must have a Class A CDL

Not quite.....he said his GCWR was 25,200.....

Class A only applies if GCWR>= 26001 and trailer GVWR>10k

Pickups with trailers (even with GVWR>10k) do NOT need class A if GCWR is <=26k