Shame on Israel

[dpatt]

Hamas Radio (yep, there IS such a thing) sent out a general call to women in the area to surround the mosque...

Mothers protecting their sons? Don't even go there.

Real men protect their women...not sacrifice them to "the cause".

[Consider]

I'm sorry, but the Palestinians were living there first.

Someone on this forum posted a really good thing about how England was in charge of the area at the time that Europeans were making it up to the Jews for what had been done to them by Hitler, while everyone who knew about it sort of looked the other way... a bit like Darfur.

The Israelis have an undeveloped sense of sharing.

I have no respect for a country that dropped cluster bombs in Lebanon.

Those cluster bombs hurt kids, little kids.

There is no justification for that.

[ssoutlaw]

I'm sorry, but the Palestinians were living there first.

Someone on this forum posted a really good thing about how England was in charge of the area at the time that Europeans were making it up to the Jews for what had been done to them by Hitler, while everyone who knew about it sort of looked the other way... a bit like Darfur.

The Israelis have an undeveloped sense of sharing.

I have no respect for a country that dropped cluster bombs in Lebanon.

Those cluster bombs hurt kids, little kids.

There is no justification for that.

I think you need to remember that way before WW2 and into the times of Christ the Jews had suffered under many peoples wrath and displaced all over the world thus being moved from their land way before WW2. As far as the Palestinians go Lebanon was where these people came from, like the USA when the people left England! So lets talk about who took what away from WHO!! AS far as sending women to protect their men and sons and putting themself in harms way for a bunch of terrorists, then that makes them 1 in the same. Isn't it nice to use your women and pray on your opponents morals to try to stop the attack and then kill them when the women are out of the way. GET REAL!! "WAR MEANS FIGHTING, FIGHTING MEANS KILLING' and anyone who puts their women in the middle of it all are terrorists!!! Sure its ashame that anyone dies but how will you stop them from using these practices. what will you say when the woman and children pick up guns and start using them? they cant be killed then, sounds like Viet Nam

[Consider]

I'm sorry, but the Palestinians were living there first.

Someone on this forum posted a really good thing about how England was in charge of the area at the time that Europeans were making it up to the Jews for what had been done to them by Hitler, while everyone who knew about it sort of looked the other way... a bit like Darfur.

The Israelis have an undeveloped sense of sharing.

I have no respect for a country that dropped cluster bombs in Lebanon.

Those cluster bombs hurt kids, little kids.

There is no justification for that.

I think you need to remember that way before WW2 and into the times of Christ the Jews had suffered under many peoples wrath and displaced all over the world thus being moved from their land way before WW2. As far as the Palestinians go Lebanon was where these people came from, like the USA when the people left England! So lets talk about who took what away from WHO!! AS far as sending women to protect their men and sons and putting themself in harms way for a bunch of terrorists, then that makes them 1 in the same. Isn't it nice to use your women and pray on your opponents morals to try to stop the attack and then kill them when the women are out of the way. GET REAL!! "WAR MEANS FIGHTING, FIGHTING MEANS KILLING' and anyone who puts their women in the middle of it all are terrorists!!! Sure its ashame that anyone dies but how will you stop them from using these practices.

ah.... okay.... but what morals?

I mean, the Israelis dropped cluster bombs on Lebanon... how moral is that? Cluster bombs just sit there until some little kid touches them, and then... mayhem. Moral? Is that moral?

[ssoutlaw]

I'm sorry, but the Palestinians were living there first.

Someone on this forum posted a really good thing about how England was in charge of the area at the time that Europeans were making it up to the Jews for what had been done to them by Hitler, while everyone who knew about it sort of looked the other way... a bit like Darfur.

The Israelis have an undeveloped sense of sharing.

I have no respect for a country that dropped cluster bombs in Lebanon.

Those cluster bombs hurt kids, little kids.

There is no justification for that.

I think you need to remember that way before WW2 and into the times of Christ the Jews had suffered under many peoples wrath and displaced all over the world thus being moved from their land way before WW2. As far as the Palestinians go Lebanon was where these people came from, like the USA when the people left England! So lets talk about who took what away from WHO!! AS far as sending women to protect their men and sons and putting themself in harms way for a bunch of terrorists, then that makes them 1 in the same. Isn't it nice to use your women and pray on your opponents morals to try to stop the attack and then kill them when the women are out of the way. GET REAL!! "WAR MEANS FIGHTING, FIGHTING MEANS KILLING' and anyone who puts their women in the middle of it all are terrorists!!! Sure its ashame that anyone dies but how will you stop them from using these practices.

ah.... okay.... but what morals?

I mean, the Israelis dropped cluster bombs on Lebanon... how moral is that? Cluster bombs just sit there until some little kid touches them, and then... mayhem. Moral? Is that moral?

Well it sounds like education is what is needed here. in a time of war people should be taught to preserve their own life and yes that means the children too, sounds harsh I know and I don't like to see anyone killed but how will you stop it. War is HELL, get used to it!! I have got 2 boys overseas now and they are my children so really I see no difference. As far is the morals thing, that was a comment about morality, like I cant kill the enemy while their moms are in the way, you know what I meant!

[Fozzy]

I'm sorry, but the Palestinians were living there first.

Someone on this forum posted a really good thing about how England was in charge of the area at the time that Europeans were making it up to the Jews for what had been done to them by Hitler, while everyone who knew about it sort of looked the other way... a bit like Darfur.

The Israelis have an undeveloped sense of sharing.

I have no respect for a country that dropped cluster bombs in Lebanon.

Those cluster bombs hurt kids, little kids.

There is no justification for that.

I think you need to remember that way before WW2 and into the times of Christ the Jews had suffered under many peoples wrath and displaced all over the world thus being moved from their land way before WW2. As far as the Palestinians go Lebanon was where these people came from, like the USA when the people left England! So lets talk about who took what away from WHO!! AS far as sending women to protect their men and sons and putting themself in harms way for a bunch of terrorists, then that makes them 1 in the same. Isn't it nice to use your women and pray on your opponents morals to try to stop the attack and then kill them when the women are out of the way. GET REAL!! "WAR MEANS FIGHTING, FIGHTING MEANS KILLING' and anyone who puts their women in the middle of it all are terrorists!!! Sure its ashame that anyone dies but how will you stop them from using these practices.

ah.... okay.... but what morals?

I mean, the Israelis dropped cluster bombs on Lebanon... how moral is that? Cluster bombs just sit there until some little kid touches them, and then... mayhem. Moral? Is that moral?

You really need to read up on munitions.. at least the proverbial little kid that some of you love to use wasn't rolling up and touching the "evil" clusterbomb in his wheelchair in the rain, uphill in his little jammies, on the way to church, while living in a car, after not having any dinner because Ronald Reagan took his mothers welfare checks away.
Sheesh! did I miss anything?

[Fozzy]

And just for the record.. If mommy runs to sonny boy during an active firefight.. they deserve what they get..

[bulldog2036]

....."running to their sons"...yeah, sons of bitches.......

[wot i life]

The purpose of my post was to express my viewpoint on something I felt strongly about; And that is, the slaughter of unarmed women, regardless of their denomination,colour,creed, on the right side, wrong side-whatever.
If any nations well trained,Disciplined, heavily armed professional soldiers can train the sights of their weapon and bring deadly force bearing down on civilians-and women at that- obviously leaving the scene(regardless of their alleged crime/involvement) then that is "A shame on Israel" as I put it.
The United Kingdom has been disgraced in the past in similar circumstances and even though we are fervently proud of our armed forces(who quite simply are a match for anyone in equal numbers) we still feel the shame of such events.
Bloody Sunday
The debacle that has blotted the glorious history of one of our finest regiments, touches me deeply, FOR MY OWN PERSONAL REASONS.

[bulldog2036]

And you expected us to what? Fall down on our hands and knees and lament the death of the poor "unarmed women" who knew their actions would probably end up the way it did......viewpoint from a Jarhead, kill 'em all and take names later. Should be easy, they are all named "Mohammed" anyway, right? I can hear the tears flowing now...

[PackRatTDI]

I'm sorry, but the Palestinians were living there first.

Someone on this forum posted a really good thing about how England was in charge of the area at the time that Europeans were making it up to the Jews for what had been done to them by Hitler, while everyone who knew about it sort of looked the other way... a bit like Darfur.

The Israelis have an undeveloped sense of sharing.

I have no respect for a country that dropped cluster bombs in Lebanon.

Those cluster bombs hurt kids, little kids.

There is no justification for that.

As quoted by a famous Israeli, "There will never be peace in the middle east until the Palestinians love their children more than they hate us."

[Redeemed]

First, wot, you are correct that we share differing opinions. While we disagree thank you for respecting mine and I respect yours as well. My rant to follow is not directed at you but at other comments.....

there is some real mis-information stated here. Let's start with the statement that the Europeans gave the Jews "Palestine" to make up for WWII. Sorry but go back and read your history. It was not the Europeans but the vaunted United Nations (that liberals love to support) that set up a partition of the British protectorate known as "Palestine" that Brittan took over from the Ottoman Empire after WWI.

Yes, that is right, it was the UN that set up the original boundaries between the new Jewish state and the Palestinian people in 1948. This was done in an effort to stop bloodshed and fighting between the Jews and Palestinians after the Brittish pulled out of the area after WWII. Jews had been resettling in the area for several decades and were increasingly pushing for self-autonomy and independance in an area that except for the Brittish (and Ottomans before them) had no organized government.

But the UN had to arbitrarily set the boundaries because between the Palestinians and the surrounding Arab countries their was so much bickering that no one would agree on what to do. So the UN finally gave up and set a drop dead date for boundaries on the two states and then voted and approved the resolution. So in 1948 their were two separate states, one Jewish the other Palestinian, that was set up by the United Nations. Not the Europeans. And that also means that everyone did not look the other way while the Jews took over. That is not correct either. Its was done in full view of the world governing body and approved.

The reason there is not two separate states is that right after the UN approved the resolution setting up the boundaries all of the Arab region declared war on the new Jewish state in an effort to take over all the land. Israel fought back, cleaned their proverbial clocks, and as in what used to happen in war they took over the land they won from an enemy that attacked them first.

But if you take the time to dig through history a little further you will find that the Brittish original idea to set up two states was to set up the area known at the time as Trans-Jordan (now just Jordan) as the home for the Palestinian state.

Second, this idea that the women showed great courage by running into a firefight between two armed groups of soldier is absolutely crazy. These were civilians that had no business running into a firefight....period. Any self respecting government or authority would do everything possible to make sure that it's civilian population is protected and kept away from areas of open warfare. Only the Palestinian government openly coherses its civilians to enter into battlezones and for one reason only.......they know that dead civilians killed by Israeli soldiers makes for good PR in the rest of the world. So they send their women into a battle to be wounded and killed to make themselves look good. What a noble leaders.

The Israelis have an undeveloped sense of sharing? How can a country that has had to fight nearly every moment just to keep from being exterminated keep giving into every cock-eyed scheme of "land-for-peace" still be accused of this? They have given away incredible amounts of land that would greatly benefit them for a better defensive posture against future attack. They still come under regular attack in all forms from suicide bombers to rockets and missles provided by war-crazy states such as Iran after all they have given back so far and the call from most still says "give back more land and you will have peace." The Hizbollah and Hamas groups have as their base charter of creation that the only acceptable solution is to force all the Jews into the Mediterian Sea and completely take back all of the land. How do you share with people who have no other desire than your complete destruction? You don't.

Israel drops cluster bombs on little kids? Nope, wrong again. It's is a proven fact that the enemies of Israel place civilians in war zones by force when they can't get people crazy enough to run into the area. Their were multiple reports of whole villages in Lebanon not allowed to evacuate because Hizbollah held them there at the point of a gun. Then Hizbollah launches missle and rockets from launchers placed next to appartment buildings, mosques, and hospitals. Damn, even CNN reported this with proof from survailence and eyewitness reports! So if little kids got killed with bombs dropped by Israel it was not because the big bad Israelis decided to attack the local Hizbollah orphanage.

And those who have such a problem with cluster bombs....do you have a problem with suicide bombers packed with ball-bearings, nails, tacks, and other assorted scrap metal laced with assorted poisons to make sure those only injured by the bomber have a second chance to die? That also is a proven fact that suicide bomber packs are packed with poison laced projectiles to make a second effort to kill as many as possible. What is so immoral about cluster bombs but suicide bombers are ok?

Please take a moment to look at the situation with some common sense. The militants fighting the soldiers took refuge in a MOSQUE! They did not do that because a Mosque is some "tag free safe base" like a kids game. They did it because they wanted the Israeli's to attack the Mosque and make for a good PR story about the big bad Israeli army. How moral is that? PR is the same reason they called for the women to come as human shields. How moral is it to call for civilians to run into a battlezone? It's no more moral than suicide bombers or rockets packed with ball bearings launched into civilian areas in Israel.

The Israelis make an effort to avoid civilians causalties in Arab areas even at the cost of their own soldiers. As reported on CNN one of their special forces teams took several causualties when they attacked a rocket launcher location in Lebanon THAT WAS PARKED IN A COURTYARD OF AN APARTMENT BUILDING PACKED WITH INNOCENT FAMILIES! An airstrike by an F-16 could easily destroyed it with no loss of life to Israel soldiers. Yet, Israeli soldiers died to save civilian lives in Lebanon. Funny, I have not seen any reports from Hizbollah that they have improved the targeting of their rockets to make sure they miss civilian areas. Nor do suicide bombers stay away from civilian areas in Israel.

Wot and I can disagree on something like the response of Israeli soldiers. But these other comments are just absolutly crazy. You fight war only when you have to. When you do you fight a total war and with the intent to win. That is the way Sherman did it.

[bulldog2036]

Thank you redeemed.

[wot i life]

How moral is it to call for civilians to run into a battlezone?

Wot and I can disagree on something like the response of Israeli soldiers. But these other comments are just absolutly crazy. You fight war only when you have to. When you do you fight a total war and with the intent to win. That is the way Sherman did it.

I,m not interested in middle eastern history(other than ancient history) but you,re fairly right in what you say; And, you are totally correct in stating the immorality of calling upon women to "human shield" the men who were surrounded and to scared to either fight a pitched battle or give themselves up-cowardice always rears it head in conflict-but then, one must respect the courage of the women to attend the scene? Yes, that offers the opinion that they were aware of attendant danger, as they surely were. But, that does not suggest in the slightest that these women had foreknowledge or an inclination that trained, professional soldiers would not only direct live fire at them(has Israel no plastic bullets?) but would vehemently pursue them in their flight.
Again we differ my friend, but difference and the right to express our views is exactly what our forebears died for.

[Redeemed]

wot you are a good person (although that avatar you have just creeps me out ) and there is no problem with two people who disagree on a subject. I have many friends that cross all boundaries of subject matter in life and we disagree many times but we still call each other friends.

[shyykatt]

"......I've got friends in low places;
Where the whiskey drowns and the beer chases- my blues away; and I'll be ok"

[Redeemed]

"when they find out how to burn water,
and the gasoline car is gone,
when an airplane flies without any fuel,
and the sunlight heats our homes,
one of these days when the air clears up,
and the sky comes shining through,
we'll all be drinking that free bubble up,
and eat'n that rainbow stew"

[Fozzy]

Unarmed people who are using themselves willing as cover for those shooting at other people should be considered weapons themselves. They chose their own demise and expected this exact reaction from the normal mod of Israel and Jew haters.

[PackRatTDI]

Unarmed people who are using themselves willing as cover for those shooting at other people should be considered weapons themselves. They chose their own demise and expected this exact reaction from the normal mod of Israel and Jew haters.

I was thinking about those human shield hippies that went to Iraq that quickly decided it was a bad idea when Saddam wanted to place them at strategic military installations instead of letting them "shield" their hotel.